Finsbury Park review and live in general

I found this on the Amazon UK site, thought it worth a hearing, it's written by their 'no.1' customer reviewer:

Let's put the myth to one side for a moment- forget Joy Division (who some see as a poor man's Pere Ubu), forget 24 Hour Party People & the joys of Technique and admit that New Order are frequently an average band. Sure they've made some of the greatest songs ever- Thieves Like Us, Dream Attack, Temptation- but their albums have been frequently variable in quality (see Republic, Movement, Brotherhood, Get Ready). The live experience more so...

Not that I think many concerts have ever been captured on film to a succesful degree (exceptions- 101, The Last Waltz)- this is shot in an unimaginative way and the sight of a muddy daylight littered with burger vans reminds me why I hardly ever go to concerts anymore. The cameras are pointed at the middle aged men in t-shirts&jeans and sometimes on an audience waving their hands in the air. Sure, there are a few choice moments- Crystal, Regret, 60 Miles an Hour but then True Faith is delivered in a horrible sub-Baeleric style with Hooky shouting drivel over it and Sumner demonstrating that his vocal style is still as limited (and some of the post-reunion/Get Ready tracks may as well be Electronic; I don't think they're the same without Gillian Gilbert- I know she couldn't make it for serious reasons, but I think she was a great element in the band)- the bass and vocals are all over the place and there is something not right about Barney shouting "Come on!" as if he's in a darts contest over Love Will Tear Us Apart (which is great musically)- I've always hated World in Motion, though there is something perverse about this being played alongside JDclassics She's Lost Control & Digital. There is a severe lack of material from career best Technique, while Blue Monday is wheeled out again in a faithful version (with lashings of terrible freaky dancing from Barney)- quite boring to watch, as most of this film. It all ends in darkness (most of the gig is in daylight) with Power, Corruption & Lies Your Silent Face- Barney shouts the "Piss off!" bit- the out of tune shouting is severely irritating and mildly embarrasing and a reason why I have ranked this as low as I have. You know, the gig looks huge but the wash of synths doesn't sound as epic as it does on record- I loathe huge concerts like this (only Pink Floyd & U2 appear to know how to stage such vast events) - maybe it would have been better in smaller confines? One for fans only or those who want a reminder of a day buying overpriced junk food, watching a pantomime Ian McCulloch or listening to average versions of some of the greatest songs ever. Personally I'll stick with the records...

This seems harsh (If you don't like Brotherhood you're not a NO fan anyway) but the points about Bernard and Hooky were quite funny - I have to admit Bernard's shouting on LWTUA was a bit embarrasing. I think they over-did the use of JD songs on the tour, it was excellent at Reading (particularly Atmosphere and Heart and Soul) and probably should have been left there.

Also I disliked the 'corporateness' of the Get Ready tour: NO in their prime would have balked at supporting the likes of 'Robbie Williams' or remixing Kylie Minogue(!) at Old Trafford; and from what I've read the Ireland gig supporting RHCP was cringemaking, with their fans taking the **** out of NO. They've obviously done it for the money, but for me it's a long way from the original ideals or even Substance-Technique era.

Yes I watched the Finsbury Park DVD for the first time last night. I have to agree that I was a bit dissapointed by Barneys constant shouts and whoops. I know Barney has always been partial to the odd whoop here and there. A whoop on something like Temptation is fine - but Barney should stop doing it on the Joy Division tracks.

Got me thinking that it would be great if New Order did a Joy Division only concert. They could revisit one of the old venues (any suggestions). Even better Barney, Peter and Steve handle the music and they get someone like Alan Hempsall (of Crispy Ambulance) to step into Ian's shoes to do the vocals/dancing.

Now that really would make a good concert ! Now where did I put that raincoat ?

that's the thing with live recordings - you just don't get the atmosphere, which is the main thing. i find the shouting annoying after a bit but if i'd have been there i'd have loved it at the time. the good thing about it though is that they look like they're enjoying it which i always like from a band. still not as good as 316 though...

I reckon the review is pretty fair. The DVD makes the gig look about 100% better than I remember it. I hate open air gigs no matter who's playing. I hate them even more when your knee deep in mud.

Don't get me wrong, I had a ball on the day meeting new people in the World's End along with a few London based mates I hadn't seen for ages. The gig itself though was a bit of a distraction. I'd have sat in that boozer all night if i hadn't paid forty quid for the ticket!

I've watched it several times since I purchased it on Dec 23 and... I don't mind Barney's whooping and shouting not in the slighest bit!

But maybe that's because I'm sooooo glad my DVD came with the "Hooky with bass" sleeve (no sign of it being french though...)!

The review is pretty accurate. Nice one.

Originally posted by ShugZV©
It's a case of taking the rough with the smooth. The whole atmosphere was superb, we were treated to whoops (as usual) and the dancingFuckin great concert!Maybe the only song he shouldnae "Whoop" to is Atmosphere, if you's watch Reading 98 I don't think he does. cest la vie peeps, cest la vie.As fer the idea of doing a JD only set, there were rumours of this last year, pity, cos it'd be great to have 2 sets in a day......they're getting on a wee bit, so the chances are getting slimmer:D

He whooped on Atmosphere? That's tragic! That makes me sick to even think about it. Adding whoops to one of the greatest songs ever is criminal. The more I hear about them trying their darndest to ruin great songs is not making me really excited about seeing them live, let alone getting the DVD. Some days I am glad I have never seen them live, this day is one of them.

Originally posted by Wolfmann > Originally posted by ShugZV© > It's a case of taking the rough with the smooth. The whole atmosphere was superb, we were treated to whoops (as usual) and the dancing> Fuckin great concert!> Maybe the only song he shouldnae "Whoop" to is Atmosphere, if you's watch Reading 98 I don't think he does. cest la vie peeps, cest la vie.> As fer the idea of doing a JD only set, there were rumours of this last year, pity, cos it'd be great to have 2 sets in a day......they're getting on a wee bit, so the chances are getting slimmer:D

He whooped on Atmosphere? That's tragic! That makes me sick to even think about it. Adding whoops to one of the greatest songs ever is criminal. The more I hear about them trying their darndest to ruin great songs is not making me really excited about seeing them live, let alone getting the DVD. Some days I am glad I have never seen them live, this day is one of them.

Could you add a disclaimer to your signiture proclaiming that you prefer U2 to New order? It would avoid people actually mistaking your opinion for one that carries any cachet.

Originally posted by Hank Wiseass© > Originally posted by Wolfmann> > > > Originally posted by ShugZV© > > It's a case of taking the rough with the smooth. The whole atmosphere was superb, we were treated to whoops (as usual) and the dancing> > Fuckin great concert!> > Maybe the only song he shouldnae "Whoop" to is Atmosphere, if you's watch Reading 98 I don't think he does. cest la vie peeps, cest la vie.> > As fer the idea of doing a JD only set, there were rumours of this last year, pity, cos it'd be great to have 2 sets in a day......they're getting on a wee bit, so the chances are getting slimmer:D>

He whooped on Atmosphere? That's tragic! That makes me sick to even think about it. Adding whoops to one of the greatest songs ever is criminal. The more I hear about them trying their darndest to ruin great songs is not making me really excited about seeing them live, let alone getting the DVD. Some days I am glad I have never seen them live, this day is one of them.

Could you add a disclaimer to your signiture proclaiming that you prefer U2 to New order? It would avoid people actually mistaking your opinion for one that carries any cachet.

I could care less who shares my opinions, but they will be heard. Anyone who would take a song like Atmosphere and whoop to it should be sat down for a good talkin' too - I could care less whether it was Barney or anyone else doing the song. If Moby covered the song and added some freakish gutteral grunt to the song, JD fans would hunt him down, get in line, and then beat him senseless. Stop giving Barney so much leeway just because you love NO.

P.S. I don't prefer U2 to NO, but they are a favorite. Saying that U2 is a bad band is just plain ignorant whether you like them or not.

You said you would rank them and the Beatles above New Order. I don't give lee-way to Barney. I don't think he cares much what I think. I don't deem it's necasary for me to comment on how he chooses to perform a song, that, as far as I know he was probably more responsible than anyone for creating.

U2 are bunch of pompous self important wankers.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Wolfmann> > > > If Moby covered the song and added some freakish gutteral grunt to the song, JD fans would hunt him down, get in line, and then beat him senseless.>

So, what you're saying is .. when/if you ever do get to see New Order live you would hope to get in line (with all these JD fans) and beat Bernard senseless for 'whooping' on Atmosphere?!

That's nice.

You guys are taking what I said to extremes. I would love to see NO live. I love them as a band. Loving them as a band means that I take the good with the bad. I don't have to like, or even act like I like, some of the things they do. It's just like all the whiners who complained about Retro every day for weeks. They had their right to complain as a fan that supports the band. I chose to take the good with the bad - actually finding that I liked 4 disks out of the 5 on the set, with Disk 1 being the only overly repetition CD of compilations I already own. Barney whooping on Atmosphere is something I don't have to like, and I don't. But, in the end, I will see them live if I get the chance, just like all the Retro whiners have their copy of Retro anyway.

Also, I didn't say that I would beat the crap out of Moby. I said that people on the site tend to give Barney more leeway in things that they wouldn't if another band did the exact some thing. To me, a song like Atmosphere is example of musical perfection... not to be tampered with - not by anyone, even NO. If you are going to play the song, do it with respect.

Originally posted by Spotnick > Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©> Could you add a disclaimer to your signiture proclaiming that you prefer U2 to New order? It would avoid people actually mistaking your opinion for one that carries any cachet.

Actually, I've seen the 1993 NO gig and U2's last gig.. it's a totally different world...

The U2 gig was the best gig I've ever seen, and that includes the tremendous Pink Floyd gig I've seen in 1993 (though the music stinks at the Olympic Stadium here).. Bono is the best entertainer I've seen live without any doubt.

A NO gig is something more "personal", obviously it's not the same public at all, and it's probaly better that way. I enjoyed the gig, but well, New Order only play 10-13 songs in a gig, which is pretty average, and well, let's face it, Bernard does not have a great voice live, this is something everyone knows.. he's out of tune 75% of the time!

And that's one of the reasons everyone like New Order, isn't it? ;)

I agree - I like NO because they give what they have. I am glad Bernard didn't quit after Ian died because he couldn't sing well. One of these days I will get to see them live, not because I need to in order to love them, but because I am curious. I expect to be blown away by U2 on stage. I have seen DVD's of their live shows that blow me away. I do not expect to be blown away by NO, I expect it will be a chance to get to know them a little better seeing the actual people live in front of me doing the things that they do. Like you said, personal. I guess U2 and NO shows would be like the difference between a really great drama that moves you emotionally (NO - Croutching Tiger, Hidden Dragon) vs a Hollywood blockbuster with the latest special effects that lasts for 3 hours (U2 - Lord Of The Rings). Both are good, both can (and should) be enjoyed, but they can't (and shouldn't) be related to each other.

In the last few posts I've read about U2, Pink Floyd and Ultravox!!!!!! What the f**k is going on? It's like punk never happened.....

Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson In the last few posts I've read about U2, Pink Floyd and Ultravox!!!!!! What the f**k is going on? It's like punk never happened.....

Grahame, yours is the wisest post I have read in ages (apart from mine, that is ;) )

Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson In the last few posts I've read about U2, Pink Floyd and Ultravox!!!!!! What the f**k is going on? It's like punk never happened.....

Exactly, no wonder they can't be arsed to do a proper tour of North America.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Mickey Way> > Exactly, no wonder they can't be arsed to do a proper tour of North America.

I believe they're still holding out for that much cherished Cure support slot.

...or The Smiths reunion tour for an all Manchester bill.

Originally posted by Andrew I found this on the Amazon UK site, thought it worth a hearing, it's written by their 'no.1' customer reviewer:Let's put the myth to one side for a moment- forget Joy Division (who some see as a poor man's Pere Ubu), forget 24 Hour Party People & the joys of Technique and admit that New Order are frequently an average band. Sure they've made some of the greatest songs ever- Thieves Like Us, Dream Attack, Temptation- but their albums have been frequently variable in quality (see Republic, Movement, Brotherhood, Get Ready). The live experience more so...Not that I think many concerts have ever been captured on film to a succesful degree (exceptions- 101, The Last Waltz)- this is shot in an unimaginative way and the sight of a muddy daylight littered with burger vans reminds me why I hardly ever go to concerts anymore. The cameras are pointed at the middle aged men in t-shirts&jeans and sometimes on an audience waving their hands in the air. Sure, there are a few choice moments- Crystal, Regret, 60 Miles an Hour but then True Faith is delivered in a horrible sub-Baeleric style with Hooky shouting drivel over it and Sumner demonstrating that his vocal style is still as limited (and some of the post-reunion/Get Ready tracks may as well be Electronic; I don't think they're the same without Gillian Gilbert- I know she couldn't make it for serious reasons, but I think she was a great element in the band)- the bass and vocals are all over the place and there is something not right about Barney shouting "Come on!" as if he's in a darts contest over Love Will Tear Us Apart (which is great musically)- I've always hated World in Motion, though there is something perverse about this being played alongside JDclassics She's Lost Control & Digital. There is a severe lack of material from career best Technique, while Blue Monday is wheeled out again in a faithful version (with lashings of terrible freaky dancing from Barney)- quite boring to watch, as most of this film. It all ends in darkness (most of the gig is in daylight) with Power, Corruption & Lies Your Silent Face- Barney shouts the "Piss off!" bit- the out of tune shouting is severely irritating and mildly embarrasing and a reason why I have ranked this as low as I have. You know, the gig looks huge but the wash of synths doesn't sound as epic as it does on record- I loathe huge concerts like this (only Pink Floyd & U2 appear to know how to stage such vast events) - maybe it would have been better in smaller confines? One for fans only or those who want a reminder of a day buying overpriced junk food, watching a pantomime Ian McCulloch or listening to average versions of some of the greatest songs ever. Personally I'll stick with the records... This seems harsh (If you don't like Brotherhood you're not a NO fan anyway) but the points about Bernard and Hooky were quite funny - I have to admit Bernard's shouting on LWTUA was a bit embarrasing. I think they over-did the use of JD songs on the tour, it was excellent at Reading (particularly Atmosphere and Heart and Soul) and probably should have been left there. Also I disliked the 'corporateness' of the Get Ready tour: NO in their prime would have balked at supporting the likes of 'Robbie Williams' or remixing Kylie Minogue(!) at Old Trafford; and from what I've read the Ireland gig supporting RHCP was cringemaking, with their fans taking the **** out of NO. They've obviously done it for the money, but for me it's a long way from the original ideals or even Substance-Technique era.

I think that guy is a fookin' faggot who needs him radio-pop-tastic arse kicked....bring him to me man!!!!!

Originally posted by Spotnick > Originally posted by Hank Wiseass©> Could you add a disclaimer to your signiture proclaiming that you prefer U2 to New order? It would avoid people actually mistaking your opinion for one that carries any cachet.

Actually, I've seen the 1993 NO gig and U2's last gig.. it's a totally different world...

The U2 gig was the best gig I've ever seen, and that includes the tremendous Pink Floyd gig I've seen in 1993 (though the music stinks at the Olympic Stadium here).. Bono is the best entertainer I've seen live without any doubt.

A NO gig is something more "personal", obviously it's not the same public at all, and it's probaly better that way. I enjoyed the gig, but well, New Order only play 10-13 songs in a gig, which is pretty average, and well, let's face it, Bernard does not have a great voice live, this is something everyone knows.. he's out of tune 75% of the time!

And that's one of the reasons everyone like New Order, isn't it? ;)

Amen Spotty!! Well said...that's always been the big lure for me to go and see NO, whether live or on VHS/DVD. It's the inconsistancies that make theirs shows so good [to me]. Why go see Depeche Mode or U2 10 times and then buy a dvd when you know it will be identical in every way!!?? Hell, they even yell the same "whoops!!" & "Yeaaahhh!"s in the same fookin' spots....

THAT IS BORING!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Tracey Spivey > Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Mickey Way> > Exactly, no wonder they can't be arsed to do a proper tour of North America.

I believe they're still holding out for that much cherished Cure support slot.

...or The Smiths reunion tour for an all Manchester bill.

Or what about 'Monsters of Synthpop' with OMD, Erasure, Depeche Mode, PSBs, Nine Inch Heels and Skinny Chicken. New Order could co-headline with Flock of Seagulls.

That would certainly have them gyrating in the 30,000 seat arenas

Originally posted by Mickey Way > Originally posted by Tracey Spivey> > > > Originally posted by Al Jarvis> > Originally posted by Mickey Way> > Exactly, no wonder they can't be arsed to do a proper tour of North America.

I believe they're still holding out for that much cherished Cure support slot.

...or The Smiths reunion tour for an all Manchester bill.

Or what about 'Monsters of Synthpop' with OMD, Erasure, Depeche Mode, PSBs, Nine Inch Heels and Skinny Chicken. New Order could co-headline with Flock of Seagulls.

That would certainly have them gyrating in the 30,000 seat arenas

Mmmh Excellent idea. Can they have inflatable pigs on the wing, round stages and Hooky could appear wearing a purple cloak.

But we need an angle. They should sing about the alienation of modern man in the midst of today's contradictions. 10% of the profits should go to alleviate the hunger somewhere and we could have Koffi Annan addressing the throngs from the gigantic screens.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Mickey Way> > > Or what about 'Monsters of Synthpop' with OMD, Erasure, Depeche Mode, PSBs, Nine Inch Heels and Skinny Chicken. New Order could co-headline with Flock of Seagulls.> > That would certainly have them gyrating in the 30,000 seat arenas

Don't!

Our Colonial Cousins will start up a petition to try and make it a reality!

Right you are Jarvo...don't tempt us.

Pure genius!