Is a 90 minute set too long?

I think so. Especially if they are going to play the same songs each night. They should do the 14 songs and then bugger off as the encores have been mildly disappointing, not withstanding the Rock the Shack comedy classic last night.

All this moshing down the front in your mid 30's also takes it out of you (though its a good way to keep fit!). I remember me and a guy just turning and laughing to each other last night after trying to get our breaths back, remember the words to Transmission and point our fingers all at the same time.

No need for Slow Jam, 60mph, Close Range, LWTUA. Touched BTHOG sounded a bit ropey too so throw in Perfect Kiss and a few off Technique and job's a good'un. Apart from that they were ace (Friday)

It seems that, from the Warsaw days on down, NO have usually played 30-40 minute sets, so for them to suddenly try for 90 minutes (nevermind they do have more than enough material to fall back on) would be a bit trying. Personnally, I don't care how long a gig they do, just so as I finally get a chance to see them.

First everyone's moaning about the quality of Get Ready, now the sets are too long .Fucking hell. Personally I don't mind if they play the entire back catalogue ,including all J.D and Warsaw stuff,plus for good measure individual side projects.

Originally posted by chris p First everyone's moaning about the quality of Get Ready, now the sets are too long .Fucking hell.Personally I don't mind if they play the entire back catalogue ,including all J.D and Warsaw stuff,plus for good measure individual side projects.

Yeah, I definitely agree. I mean, how many chances do we have to see NO live, especially when we're not British?

I'm a fan for the last 16 years and I will see them live for the 1st time, so I would like the pleasure to last very long, when I go and see them in Paris.

I'm not moaning, my post was a bit tongue in cheek, I have chosen to see them 5 times on this tour, though personally an hour and 20 mins for a conert is about right IMHO. ;)

Would you really want to see the Order play for 2 and a half hours?! Isn't that a bit Bruce Springsteenish? The multi-media stuff can be excellent but its abit more up Kraftwerk or Orbital's street if you ask me and they do it very well.

It would be great if they played a few more of their other classics rather than the usual greatest hits. To me the 'essence' of New Order were the different sets each night but it looks like their sticking with a particular formula on this tour - though its still good fun as many of the posts have said.

Like my football team, I didn't have many expectations for the 'comeback' its just nice to see them again.:D

PSB and Depeche Mode! Is this what we are comparing NO to? I suspect this tour is designed to put more cash in the bank, you don't do that wasting money on multi-media shite. I watch bands to see them perform, not what some tosspot has put on slides. For me the Manchester gig could have lasted longer, though like most on this site I do question some of the material they insist on playing (and nothing off Technique!) Also, NO have never been stadium pullers to rank with U2 or the Cure, so why start now.

I'm with the last two posts here: "respecting the fans" is a bollocks notion - I'd say playing for two hours-plus is just self-indulgent, and given the average age of your N.O. punter in 2001, would probably result in fatalities (my legs are STILL fucked from bouncing around like a drunken idiot at the Apollo). The fact that the major label, professional, streamlined, "taking-this-pop-thing-seriously" New Order of the 21st century can still fuck up songs and just go "awww, sod it!", or knock out the sublime "Touched..." as clumsily as a dipsomaniac herd of elephants, or play "Blue Monday" looking bored out of their heads and then bring Gillian on when she's forgotten how to play it is JUST WONDERFUL. They're honest, if nothing else.

I used to think New Order were geniuses; then I grew up and realised that they were, in fact, talentless Manc gimps. This just made me love them even more, because it proves that talentless gimps can make wonderful, heartbreaking pop music. And that gives them more punk rock spirit in their little fingers than U2, The Cure and the Mode have mustered in their entire careers. I don't think New Order "care" about their fans - why should they? Personally, I think we get the best end of the deal. I bought "Technique" the Monday it was released, on vinyl, in my local Woolies for the princely sum of £5.49. I reckon I got my moneys worth the first time I listened to it. What more do you want? At base, the band-fan relationship is based on little more than brand loyalty: if the product is pissing you off, don't buy it. I'm 99% sure that NO will play the same songs when I see 'em at Brixton as they did at the Apollo next week, and I still can't wait. Love, of course, is blind, and a flash light show ain't gonna make me love them any more or less.

As for "Get Ready" being a 'failure', I thinks its testament to the enduring devotion of the Order's fanbase that after an eight year gap between records they can still cruise effortlessly into the top ten and sell out a tour in hours, especially when 95% of your key record buying public (ie 15-21 year olds) won't have a clue who they are. I guess they're back to being a cult band, and I reckon it suits them.

Time for bed. Keep it coming.

M.

All of you out there who seem to think New Order don't care about their fans are talking through you proverbial arses! If you ever met them, especially Hooky, you'd know that the fans mean everything to them. Hooky would talk to you from here till eternity about New Order because he loves them so fuckin' much, and what they love most is that the fans really appreciate the music, not just because it's some catchy throwaway pop song that the record company cut down to 3.05, but because its music you FEEL as much as hear. You never forget the first New Order record that hit the spot for you.

As somebody who has followed New Order from the very beginning, I think i'm qualified to say they are without a shadow of a doubt the greatest and most influential band of the last thirty years. Sure, they don't write songs like Ceremony, E.G.G., Blue Monday, Perfect Kiss, etc. etc. any more, but hey, they're still out there doing it, making decent records and loving every fuckin' minute! And 'Get Ready' is NOT a bad record, there's a lot of bands out there would give their eye teeth to be able to produce something of that quality.!

Oh yeah, I forgot to say, 90 minutes too long? YOU MUST BE JOKING MATE!! I'd have them play all day and all night!!

Every word you say is true Seb, but we all know what we're going to get when we pay our money for a New Order gig. We know there won't be expensive light shows, we know the staging won't be asthetically pleasing, and we know they'll play for 90 minutes or so churning out the same stuff as last time more or less. Yes, they could put more effort in, but if people don't like what they KNOW they're going to get, why buy a ticket? I remember the days when it was 45 minutes then goodnight sweetheart, no encore, no nothing!! Playing for 90 minutes nowadays is progress if you ask me.

Let's face it, they're in their mid-forties, there's no real reason for enormous hoopla ala Michael Jackson or Nsync, and they have more than twenty years of music to fall back on, some of which might be predictable depending on the order of set lists. Nevertheless, I'd still go to the show just to see my idols, no matter if they did 30 minutes or 90+. So long as they care to tour, I'll care enough to go.

If New Order feel like putting on a hell of a show, then we'll know. I doubt we would have much to worry about unless the usual rut of touring sets in by the time they (*hopefully*) tour in my neigborhood

Seb,

I think there's something you got to understand here. In the UK, apart from this huge U2, DM or Cure shows, 60 to 75 minutes is the normal, average length for a show.

There, most of the time, a gig is a gig, not a huge multimedia fest for stadiums. Well, I'm talking about most of indie acts, anyway...

And to me, NO will always have an indie feel.

I mean, the fact that NO don't play by the book is a huge part of their appeal. And more importantly, it's not only a question of attitude, it's also a question of songs.

Thieves Like Us, Blue Monday, EGG, Vanishing Point, Run, BLT (and I could name loads of others) are written in ways that defy songwriting logics.

That's what makes NO music so miraculous : how do they do this ? New Order is a band that created its own rules, that has created, by accident, because of not knowing how to play by the book, a style of itself, very accidental, and thus so moving.

Now, where you have a point, it's with the fact that, since "Republic", NO aren't that accidental anymore. Songs more normal. Same set every night... So maybe...

But I don't see any connection between a gig length and it's price.

I mean, you pay the same price for a film, wether being 90 minutes or 120 minutes. Same for CD wether it's a 45 minutes one or a 74 minutes one, full of useless fillers.

You know, Björk played Brussels recently. Lowest prices where arund $45 and highest at almost $ 100. That's a real shame.

To justify such a price, your better give the best concert of all times.

There is a gulf between the band's actual affection for their fanbase which Muffy points out (i've no doubt that Hooky, the sentimental old sod, really does love the punters) and the desire for "good product" that Seb wants.

Seb, mate, as others have pointed out, it just ain't ever gonna happen. If I could choose my ideal New Order setlist for tomorrow, it wouldn't look much like the one they're playing at the minute, but that's just the way it works - deal with it. And don't get so defensive, Seb: I don't mind U2 or PSBs, and I've always had a soft spot for the Cure, and am actually going to see the Mode next week. The Order do their thing differently, always have, always will.

And no amount of tantrums or petulance is going to change the stubborn old buggers now. Love 'em or leave 'em....!

M.

Er, on reflection I guess the point I'm trying to make is that commercially it makes sense for N.O. to give the punters what they want, but that the band are still too arrogant/lazy/dim/cynical/charismatic/aloof/Northern/punk/indfferent, or whatever, to submit to the will of the "consumer". Like I say, look at those Order albums, thinks about how much comfort, pleasure, joy and sorrow they've given you/helped you through, and ask yourself: "Do they really owe me any more?"

They owe me nowt.

M.

I'm with both Martin F. and Seb. on this. I don't think NO owe me anything, I think Martin's earlier passionate defence hit the nail on the head for me. The masochist in me expects them to fuck some songs up, nay, demands it. However, Seb. is also right, there's a certain going through the motion feel to the set (though they are tighter, livelier and friendlier than ever). I'm starting to tire of Get Ready already (but after a rest it'll be okay). Hey, Seb. this site helps keep it all alive, don't give up on us yet - stay away from sharp objects, ropes and things!!

Originally posted by Sébastien Boisvert I am lacking the passion required to be a webmaster of a New Order website, I guess.I think I just don't care anymore, as sad as it may be.S.:headoff:

Bloody hell fire. I was feeling quite chipper til I read this thread. I think the main argument here is that N.O could have/should be up there with the big boys and really push themselves,but unfortunatley this should have happened between the releases of Low Life and Technique.Who's to blame?? Tony Wilson?Factory?the band?Not playing the industry game?

Anything involving Gillian taking off her top is fine by me...oops, I shouldn't really have said that.

New Order can do a twenty minute set of kids' songs and I'll still pay to see it. Granted, some may find me foolish, and to them I say: Buzz off!

I can just hear Barney singing now...."The farmer in the dell, the farmer in the dell"....

Seb,

There might be another way of looking at things.

You saw NO in 93. They haven't played Belgium since 1985. I've been a fan for 16 years and I will only get my 1st opportunity to see them live next month.

One thing is obvious from listening to the Technique shows on this site (thanks a lot about those, anyway, I hope there will be more of them some time) is that NO golden years are behind them.

I mean, when you listen to those Technique gigs bootlegs, everything past them pales in comparison. I don't know if it's their best album but it obviously was their best shows era.

Maybe they're a bit too old, not crazy enough anymore.

But let's look at it this way : NO came back after an 8 months hiatus with a great album (I really love it), thee's a lot of dignity in their music from today, which you can't say about a lot of bands or artists who've tried this kind of comeback.

Let's put it this way : NO still matter much to us fans, but they probably won't matter much to the evolution of music anymore.

Let's look at it this way, finally : we all thought we would never hear new NO stuff anymore, that lots of us would never get the opportunity to see them live (sorry about that, Seb, I think I know how you must feel) and they're back, and they're still relevant, even though not as relevant as they used to be.

hey seb -many things in life come and go, you loose friends, jobs, even love. but one thing stays forever: music -the music you like -and the spirit of the bands you like NO will always have the 83-86 spirit for me thats when i first heard these songs and thats how i want to remember the band new records and new shows only add a small new point to those memories oops i get melancholic its 1.15 in the morning its raining its cold and i´m all alone......... think i listen to low-life and go to bed still over 30 days until NO play in cologne can´t wait ................

New Order probably won't set the pop world aflame, but they'll at least be giving their fans something to look forward to other than another "best of" or Euro-trash remix. That's more than I could ask for

Seb, cheer up!

You need to see them live again! I know the feeling, sometimes you loose steam from listening to them too much, you need to take a breather. But seeing them live, well, that will re-energize you. New Order are like no other band, their idiosyncrasies are probably part of what makes them so great. Yes, most people don't know how great their music is, but oh well, so be it! It makes it easier for the rest of us to get up closer to the stage to see them when they do play live.

I also wish they would play more often (especially in North America), and the longer the set, the better.

When it comes right down to it, they are just musicians, imperfect human beings. But the music....is sooo good. Sure, if they wanted to, they could have become super-rich and successful, but then, they would be just another U2, my second (very distant second) favorite band.

Anyway... I guess you have a good overall idea of what my recriminations are. Récriminations... is that a word in english?

Nevermind...

Seb. ;)

I don't know, Seb, but I do understand that word... :D

Anyway, this thread has become quite interesting, especially when ignited by one of the webmasters himself...

No reaction, Hunsty boy ? I would really like to read opinion on the subject of these last posts...

Mr Boisvert, I'd say if for some reason you doubt your desire to continue, a good place to start looking for inspiration would be the posts of our antipodean cousins,and there genuine excitement at todays news. Plus all the newcomers attracted by the latest shows. some of the friendship offered towards the people travelling here for the gigs is heart warming. Hopefully one or two will stick around for the fun in leaner times.

i think we should bear in mind that No are a group of people in their mid forties. How many other groups can create an album or live show as good as NO at this stage of their career (if ever)-

OK the pinnacle, Technique, is behind them, but lets appreciate them for what they are now..still a very high quality band

I think maybe becoming a fan at a later stage than many on this site has made me appreciate the fact that they are doing more live shows and albums..i had given up all hope of it to be honest.

After reading all that lot I have to put my twopence worth in. 2 years ago I thought "That's your lot" as far as NO were concerned. After a gig at the Apollo last week, I have too been re-energised and as I've been to their 45 minute long gigs before I was over the moon at 90 minutes! They came, they played, they played an encore! - they left. Magical. I go for the music. If I want visual effects, I'll buy a ticket for a 3D film at the IMAX..... however, I too would have liked to hear something off Technique or Low Life.

If someone wants a show, try NSYNC.

Geoff New Order are many things to many people. Taking yourself 'outside' of the fan loop and you can appreciate them as a kind of novelty act, still providing quality time and time again (its almost unheard of for them to be bad). If The Smiths had decided to reform and tour at the same time as New Order then a lot of the press would have pegged it as an 80's revival... however much it pains me to admit.

New Order's hey-day was somewhere around 1987... True Faith was one of their best and most endearing songs that appealed to the masses AND to the Order faithful. That itself represented a pinnacle... everything they then went on to produce AFTER at that moment was a bonus. After all, they had already peeked somewhat with Joy Division so to do it twice was nothing short of phenomenal.

Today, I find it hard to belive that they can still produce an outstanding piece of work 'Getting Things Ready' and to put Rock the Shack on it only encapsulates the fact that their punk rock roots are alive and well (thank god). We have to be thankful that they are still around, but we must also realise that they could never achieve brilliance again... you can only be unique once!

What I would really love New Order to do before they enivitably retract from the music world is produce another Blue Monday. A pure 10 minute self-indulgent masterpiece as a swansong. Only then will I die absoultely and utterly fulfilled.

For the real fans of New Order, we have been extremely lucky... almost 30 years of material to enjoy for the rest of our lives.

Hey, Huntsy. Are you really saying something somewhat positive about Rank the Shrink? Or am I misinterpreting you, as I so often seem to do?

You know, Huntsy, maybe it's because of my bad English writing, but most of your post says what I said in mine and have said in previous thread.

So, of course I agree with you.

Everything now is a bonus, especially when they're still so good.

Geoff, sorry if I have re-iterated what you had already said... its fair to say we genuinely think the same on most matters about New Order's current standing in the world so my repeated words stand to re-inforce your own opinions. What is a nice prospect is the thought that they might just go on another 20 years and provide even more quality... there's no harm in that. I think most people would agree their heyday was in the 80's.

Pastie, Rock the Shack isn't my fave track just in case you had any doubts. That said, I can admit to everyone that it does have bags of appeal and I do admire NO a greatly for daring to release it and making a record that is so very different from anything else on the album... well anything they've ever done as NO in fact.

One of the best things about RTS is it is so different from usual NO. Barneys voice is incompatible with the drums FX and guitars but it somehow still manages to work.

It's NO's willing to try something different, and not just play safe, which has made them the group they are

That's okay, Hunstssss, of course. I so strongly believe in this that it's good to have someone with your force of conviction saying it too.

And yeah, as you said, it's nice how, on the most important things, we agree (like the verses-choruses thingt).

Thank you New Order for letting us still loving you today without having us looking like silly earless nostalgics.

I agree with Huntsy on two points: 1. their pinnacle was '87, what with True Faith and Substance 2. They need to try for another Blue Monday, in terms of self-indulgent masterpieces, there aren't any on Get Ready but they can remedy that on their third single.

Sorry if my comments about Gillian offended anyone....

Such comments about a pretty lady could never be misconstrued. Truth be told in my younger days I have imagined myself caught up in certain scenarios where I had obtained certain pleasures from the pale skinned beauty.

Tabsy, when she walked on at the end of the first night at the Apollo last week she looked stunning, and if I wasn't with my father I might have snuck off to the lavs for a quick shufty.

I just ran across someone offering me a "red card" over that comment, and correctly percieved that wasen't a good thing. Gillian is a hottie, but I would never treat her or any woman like a sex object. I simply couldn't afford it.....

Huntsy and Seven, 1987 was unquestionably The Year of Living New Orderly. Unfortunately, our abysmal cable channel VH1 thinks it was the year of You Too.

I don't think I've ever considered her as a sex object... that implies I'm a bit of a freak (which obviously I'm very much not). I perceive the Gillian as some strange, distant fantasy in which I am the lead singer of New Order who always gets the gal.

Quite where the drummer may or not fit in remains a bone of contention.

Yes, I was pissed as well there was no acknowledgement of the Order's significant contributions to 87. I guess Barney and Steve would have had to take the Culture Club route (singer and drummer in gay love affair) in order to get attention in the Eighties, but I doubt they'd do that....

Well, about Gillian, may I remind you I called my female cat after her. How sick is that ?

Ah, you Belgians, with your cats......Very funny Monty Python skit about racism is flowing thru my mind, they were trying to decide what derogatory term could be used for Belgians. I can't remember what they agreed on....

Nothing sick with naming a cat that, I plan on naming a ny child I might have, or pet, Ian, no matter what the sex

... It depends on whether or not you fucked your cat Geoff surely?

Originally posted by Huntsman ... It depends on whether or not you fucked your cat Geoff surely?

Erm, let me think... Can't really remember... Nope, I did not, now that I think of it...

Originally posted by Taboo # 7 Ah, you Belgians, with your cats......Very funny Monty Python skit about racism is flowing thru my mind, they were trying to decide what derogatory term could be used for Belgians. I can't remember what they agreed on....Nothing sick with naming a cat that, I plan on naming a ny child I might have, or pet, Ian, no matter what the sex

:D:o

Originally posted by Taboo # 7 Ah, you Belgians, with your cats......Very funny Monty Python skit about racism is flowing thru my mind, they were trying to decide what derogatory term could be used for Belgians. I can't remember what they agreed on....Nothing sick with naming a cat that, I plan on naming a ny child I might have, or pet, Ian, no matter what the sex

Damn... I don't remember that one. Was it in one of the last series of the Flying Circus ?

Originally posted by Geoffroy Klompkes Well, about Gillian, may I remind you I called my female cat after her. How sick is that ?

It would have been worse to have called it Bernard. It's such a poor name. i never understood why he kept changing his surname, when it's his first name which is shit

Surely you have that episode stored next to all of the Buster Klumpy Keaton videos on the shelf of humour in the Buster household?

Well, I do have a lot of them, but not the last series, I'm afraid...

But, anyway, Huntsy, it is so reassuring to hear you finally saying nice things about Get Up Jack, after pretending for so long that you didn't like it.

I think it's the next-to-last season, but I do remember it's the same episode as Dennis Moore the Lupine thief, if that helps. Actually I have the complete scripts, let me chack that and I'll let ya know later on tonight

"Here, Ian, here kitty kitty kitty...."

it depends though. i mean if their on a fatty major tour then yes, 90 min is quite a long time. but if its like a gig here and there, 90 min wouldn't be long. just my opinion david

A 90 minute set should be a freaking minimum! Anything less would be a kick right square in the nut sac for those who wait year after year (in the States) for them to come and play their magical tunes.

I've only seen them twice and have never heard Blue Monday live. If I were to win the Powerball lottery, I would hire them (if they'd paly) to play until I'd heard everything I wanted.

:happytongue:

...it's not the size that counts... :D

The live versions of Blue Monday from around 84/85 (see PFD) has Barney singing with slightly different inflections. "How does it Feeeeahl...." I enjoy hearing those versions. On the subject of Live shows, Allen said Roger Lyons couldn't program TPK (our second favorite neworder track) in under 6months. What the fuck is that bullshit? It's 2001 and I know they can do it in less time. If Roger cant program the songs why do they pay him? What does it take? I read that article with Roger Lyons a few months ago but I still don't understand the hold-up on introducing new songs. it really is down to them being lazy I suspect. If Underworld (hi Candy!) and Orbital can improvise with their preprogrammed loops and samples to such perfection, why can't neworder program some fucking Casio presets they used for TPK etc...maybe Roger needs to help Justin Robolionrocker (a Gentleman and a Thief) and NewOrder can enlist a couple bald snowmen (orbital) to work out their electronic wrinkles. Why no Technique songs? Please, someone explain the reason NewOrder cannot program other songs in their set. Aren't they musicians? Shouldn't musicians be able to play their own songs with a little practice? Has technology totally frightened off the middle-aged men? Why don't Steve and Gillian take over with the programming? 83 had NewOrder celebrating new technology with the floppy sleeve design and their usage of unpredictable synths...now Barney's talking about how hard it is to write house music. What the fuck? sounds like he couldn't program the clock on his VCR/DVD if he had to. Grandpa Rubble.

Come 30/1/02 the band can play for the rest of eternity and it won't be long enough - I haven't seen them since '87 (and at least I was lucky enough to do so then).

As for remixes - forget it! Soemthing vaguely resembling the originals is always preferable personally - if only they weren't glued to the one occasionally questionable set now - no Thieves, no Vigilantes, no Silent Face, No Face Up, no... :(

Amy xox

Originally posted by Brian Geoghagan The live versions of Blue Monday from around 84/85 (see PFD) has Barney singing with slightly different inflections. "How does it Feeeeahl...." I enjoy hearing those versions. On the subject of Live shows, Allen said Roger Lyons couldn't program TPK (our second favorite neworder track) in under 6months. What the fuck is that bullshit? It's 2001 and I know they can do it in less time. If Roger cant program the songs why do they pay him? What does it take? I read that article with Roger Lyons a few months ago but I still don't understand the hold-up on introducing new songs. it really is down to them being lazy I suspect. If Underworld (hi Candy!) and Orbital can improvise with their preprogrammed loops and samples to such perfection, why can't neworder program some fucking Casio presets they used for TPK etc...maybe Roger needs to help Justin Robolionrocker (a Gentleman and a Thief) and NewOrder can enlist a couple bald snowmen (orbital) to work out their electronic wrinkles. Why no Technique songs? Please, someone explain the reason NewOrder cannot program other songs in their set. Aren't they musicians? Shouldn't musicians be able to play their own songs with a little practice? Has technology totally frightened off the middle-aged men? Why don't Steve and Gillian take over with the programming? 83 had NewOrder celebrating new technology with the floppy sleeve design and their usage of unpredictable synths...now Barney's talking about how hard it is to write house music. What the fuck? sounds like he couldn't program the clock on his VCR/DVD if he had to. Grandpa Rubble.

I have to agree with you Brian, I mean how fucking difficult can it be? They managed it throughout the whole of the 80's to play different sets. I'd much rather they played for 60-70 minutes and gave us different songs each night than nearly 2 hours of the same.

Originally posted by Amy Flower As for remixes - forget it! Soemthing vaguely resembling the originals is always preferable personally - if only they weren't glued to the one occasionally questionable set now - no Thieves, no Vigilantes, no Silent Face, No Face Up, no... :(Amyxox

Maybe it's my English and I didn't understand exactly what you've said, Amy, but...

They play "Your Silent Face" every night and they played "Love Vigilantes" in Liverpool and Tokyo.

Originally posted by Shug I know what you mean Jeff, but I took a mate to London for the last UK gig - and he didn't want to leave at the start of BM - I just wanted to piss off - I'm sure you understand - but after the gig - my mate said his highlight was seeing BM live - so there is an argument somewhere

I can see the point, here, yes.

I mean, I'm a NO fan for 16 years but only saw them live for the 1st time this past november, in Paris.

And, as selfish as it may sound, I was happy to hear, once in my life, Ceremony, Your Silent Face, BLT, Temptation & Blue Monday...

One of the main highlights of New Order back in the halcyon days was the fact that you hardly ever had any idea what was coming next in the set at any gig, with around 30 songs being rotated at any one time. You'd get ten the one night, then a different eleven the next, then half the first night again plus six others on the third night, and so on. With a big and eminently playable back catalogue, it made you want to either get to every show or at least get the tape of it. We used to travel to gigs having a "set prediction" sweep, and it was virtually impossible. Obviously certain songs got lost by the wayside over the years, only to be occasionally resurrected as an extra sepcial treat. Then it all changed around "Technique" time. Same set every night by and large. Now it's same set all year it seems.

Give me the days when you didn't know if you were getting ten randomly picked songs then no encore or a dozen including an encore, rather than what we currently have. If you wanted to see a band do the same "set by numbers" every night, you could always go and see the Blisters of Percy.

It would be fucking great if they would go back to mixing it up a bit. Just a thought though on the current tour, is it because Phil Cunningham only knows a few ?