Is a 90 minute set too long?

I think so. Especially if they are going to play the same songs each night. They should do the 14 songs and then bugger off as the encores have been mildly disappointing, not withstanding the Rock the Shack comedy classic last night.

All this moshing down the front in your mid 30's also takes it out of you (though its a good way to keep fit!). I remember me and a guy just turning and laughing to each other last night after trying to get our breaths back, remember the words to Transmission and point our fingers all at the same time.

No need for Slow Jam, 60mph, Close Range, LWTUA. Touched BTHOG sounded a bit ropey too so throw in Perfect Kiss and a few off Technique and job's a good'un. Apart from that they were ace (Friday)

It seems that, from the Warsaw days on down, NO have usually played 30-40 minute sets, so for them to suddenly try for 90 minutes (nevermind they do have more than enough material to fall back on) would be a bit trying. Personnally, I don't care how long a gig they do, just so as I finally get a chance to see them.

First everyone's moaning about the quality of Get Ready, now the sets are too long .Fucking hell. Personally I don't mind if they play the entire back catalogue ,including all J.D and Warsaw stuff,plus for good measure individual side projects.

Originally posted by chris p First everyone's moaning about the quality of Get Ready, now the sets are too long .Fucking hell.Personally I don't mind if they play the entire back catalogue ,including all J.D and Warsaw stuff,plus for good measure individual side projects.

Yeah, I definitely agree. I mean, how many chances do we have to see NO live, especially when we're not British?

I'm a fan for the last 16 years and I will see them live for the 1st time, so I would like the pleasure to last very long, when I go and see them in Paris.

I'm not moaning, my post was a bit tongue in cheek, I have chosen to see them 5 times on this tour, though personally an hour and 20 mins for a conert is about right IMHO. ;)

Would you really want to see the Order play for 2 and a half hours?! Isn't that a bit Bruce Springsteenish? The multi-media stuff can be excellent but its abit more up Kraftwerk or Orbital's street if you ask me and they do it very well.

It would be great if they played a few more of their other classics rather than the usual greatest hits. To me the 'essence' of New Order were the different sets each night but it looks like their sticking with a particular formula on this tour - though its still good fun as many of the posts have said.

Like my football team, I didn't have many expectations for the 'comeback' its just nice to see them again.:D

PSB and Depeche Mode! Is this what we are comparing NO to? I suspect this tour is designed to put more cash in the bank, you don't do that wasting money on multi-media shite. I watch bands to see them perform, not what some tosspot has put on slides. For me the Manchester gig could have lasted longer, though like most on this site I do question some of the material they insist on playing (and nothing off Technique!) Also, NO have never been stadium pullers to rank with U2 or the Cure, so why start now.

I'm with the last two posts here: "respecting the fans" is a bollocks notion - I'd say playing for two hours-plus is just self-indulgent, and given the average age of your N.O. punter in 2001, would probably result in fatalities (my legs are STILL fucked from bouncing around like a drunken idiot at the Apollo). The fact that the major label, professional, streamlined, "taking-this-pop-thing-seriously" New Order of the 21st century can still fuck up songs and just go "awww, sod it!", or knock out the sublime "Touched..." as clumsily as a dipsomaniac herd of elephants, or play "Blue Monday" looking bored out of their heads and then bring Gillian on when she's forgotten how to play it is JUST WONDERFUL. They're honest, if nothing else.

I used to think New Order were geniuses; then I grew up and realised that they were, in fact, talentless Manc gimps. This just made me love them even more, because it proves that talentless gimps can make wonderful, heartbreaking pop music. And that gives them more punk rock spirit in their little fingers than U2, The Cure and the Mode have mustered in their entire careers. I don't think New Order "care" about their fans - why should they? Personally, I think we get the best end of the deal. I bought "Technique" the Monday it was released, on vinyl, in my local Woolies for the princely sum of £5.49. I reckon I got my moneys worth the first time I listened to it. What more do you want? At base, the band-fan relationship is based on little more than brand loyalty: if the product is pissing you off, don't buy it. I'm 99% sure that NO will play the same songs when I see 'em at Brixton as they did at the Apollo next week, and I still can't wait. Love, of course, is blind, and a flash light show ain't gonna make me love them any more or less.

As for "Get Ready" being a 'failure', I thinks its testament to the enduring devotion of the Order's fanbase that after an eight year gap between records they can still cruise effortlessly into the top ten and sell out a tour in hours, especially when 95% of your key record buying public (ie 15-21 year olds) won't have a clue who they are. I guess they're back to being a cult band, and I reckon it suits them.

Time for bed. Keep it coming.

M.

All of you out there who seem to think New Order don't care about their fans are talking through you proverbial arses! If you ever met them, especially Hooky, you'd know that the fans mean everything to them. Hooky would talk to you from here till eternity about New Order because he loves them so fuckin' much, and what they love most is that the fans really appreciate the music, not just because it's some catchy throwaway pop song that the record company cut down to 3.05, but because its music you FEEL as much as hear. You never forget the first New Order record that hit the spot for you.

As somebody who has followed New Order from the very beginning, I think i'm qualified to say they are without a shadow of a doubt the greatest and most influential band of the last thirty years. Sure, they don't write songs like Ceremony, E.G.G., Blue Monday, Perfect Kiss, etc. etc. any more, but hey, they're still out there doing it, making decent records and loving every fuckin' minute! And 'Get Ready' is NOT a bad record, there's a lot of bands out there would give their eye teeth to be able to produce something of that quality.!

Oh yeah, I forgot to say, 90 minutes too long? YOU MUST BE JOKING MATE!! I'd have them play all day and all night!!

Every word you say is true Seb, but we all know what we're going to get when we pay our money for a New Order gig. We know there won't be expensive light shows, we know the staging won't be asthetically pleasing, and we know they'll play for 90 minutes or so churning out the same stuff as last time more or less. Yes, they could put more effort in, but if people don't like what they KNOW they're going to get, why buy a ticket? I remember the days when it was 45 minutes then goodnight sweetheart, no encore, no nothing!! Playing for 90 minutes nowadays is progress if you ask me.

Let's face it, they're in their mid-forties, there's no real reason for enormous hoopla ala Michael Jackson or Nsync, and they have more than twenty years of music to fall back on, some of which might be predictable depending on the order of set lists. Nevertheless, I'd still go to the show just to see my idols, no matter if they did 30 minutes or 90+. So long as they care to tour, I'll care enough to go.

If New Order feel like putting on a hell of a show, then we'll know. I doubt we would have much to worry about unless the usual rut of touring sets in by the time they (*hopefully*) tour in my neigborhood

Seb,

I think there's something you got to understand here. In the UK, apart from this huge U2, DM or Cure shows, 60 to 75 minutes is the normal, average length for a show.

There, most of the time, a gig is a gig, not a huge multimedia fest for stadiums. Well, I'm talking about most of indie acts, anyway...

And to me, NO will always have an indie feel.

I mean, the fact that NO don't play by the book is a huge part of their appeal. And more importantly, it's not only a question of attitude, it's also a question of songs.

Thieves Like Us, Blue Monday, EGG, Vanishing Point, Run, BLT (and I could name loads of others) are written in ways that defy songwriting logics.

That's what makes NO music so miraculous : how do they do this ? New Order is a band that created its own rules, that has created, by accident, because of not knowing how to play by the book, a style of itself, very accidental, and thus so moving.

Now, where you have a point, it's with the fact that, since "Republic", NO aren't that accidental anymore. Songs more normal. Same set every night... So maybe...

But I don't see any connection between a gig length and it's price.

I mean, you pay the same price for a film, wether being 90 minutes or 120 minutes. Same for CD wether it's a 45 minutes one or a 74 minutes one, full of useless fillers.

You know, Björk played Brussels recently. Lowest prices where arund $45 and highest at almost $ 100. That's a real shame.

To justify such a price, your better give the best concert of all times.

There is a gulf between the band's actual affection for their fanbase which Muffy points out (i've no doubt that Hooky, the sentimental old sod, really does love the punters) and the desire for "good product" that Seb wants.

Seb, mate, as others have pointed out, it just ain't ever gonna happen. If I could choose my ideal New Order setlist for tomorrow, it wouldn't look much like the one they're playing at the minute, but that's just the way it works - deal with it. And don't get so defensive, Seb: I don't mind U2 or PSBs, and I've always had a soft spot for the Cure, and am actually going to see the Mode next week. The Order do their thing differently, always have, always will.

And no amount of tantrums or petulance is going to change the stubborn old buggers now. Love 'em or leave 'em....!

M.

Er, on reflection I guess the point I'm trying to make is that commercially it makes sense for N.O. to give the punters what they want, but that the band are still too arrogant/lazy/dim/cynical/charismatic/aloof/Northern/punk/indfferent, or whatever, to submit to the will of the "consumer". Like I say, look at those Order albums, thinks about how much comfort, pleasure, joy and sorrow they've given you/helped you through, and ask yourself: "Do they really owe me any more?"

They owe me nowt.

M.

I'm with both Martin F. and Seb. on this. I don't think NO owe me anything, I think Martin's earlier passionate defence hit the nail on the head for me. The masochist in me expects them to fuck some songs up, nay, demands it. However, Seb. is also right, there's a certain going through the motion feel to the set (though they are tighter, livelier and friendlier than ever). I'm starting to tire of Get Ready already (but after a rest it'll be okay). Hey, Seb. this site helps keep it all alive, don't give up on us yet - stay away from sharp objects, ropes and things!!

Originally posted by Sébastien Boisvert I am lacking the passion required to be a webmaster of a New Order website, I guess.I think I just don't care anymore, as sad as it may be.S.:headoff:

Bloody hell fire. I was feeling quite chipper til I read this thread. I think the main argument here is that N.O could have/should be up there with the big boys and really push themselves,but unfortunatley this should have happened between the releases of Low Life and Technique.Who's to blame?? Tony Wilson?Factory?the band?Not playing the industry game?

Anything involving Gillian taking off her top is fine by me...oops, I shouldn't really have said that.

New Order can do a twenty minute set of kids' songs and I'll still pay to see it. Granted, some may find me foolish, and to them I say: Buzz off!

I can just hear Barney singing now...."The farmer in the dell, the farmer in the dell"....

Seb,

There might be another way of looking at things.

You saw NO in 93. They haven't played Belgium since 1985. I've been a fan for 16 years and I will only get my 1st opportunity to see them live next month.

One thing is obvious from listening to the Technique shows on this site (thanks a lot about those, anyway, I hope there will be more of them some time) is that NO golden years are behind them.

I mean, when you listen to those Technique gigs bootlegs, everything past them pales in comparison. I don't know if it's their best album but it obviously was their best shows era.

Maybe they're a bit too old, not crazy enough anymore.

But let's look at it this way : NO came back after an 8 months hiatus with a great album (I really love it), thee's a lot of dignity in their music from today, which you can't say about a lot of bands or artists who've tried this kind of comeback.

Let's put it this way : NO still matter much to us fans, but they probably won't matter much to the evolution of music anymore.

Let's look at it this way, finally : we all thought we would never hear new NO stuff anymore, that lots of us would never get the opportunity to see them live (sorry about that, Seb, I think I know how you must feel) and they're back, and they're still relevant, even though not as relevant as they used to be.

hey seb -many things in life come and go, you loose friends, jobs, even love. but one thing stays forever: music -the music you like -and the spirit of the bands you like NO will always have the 83-86 spirit for me thats when i first heard these songs and thats how i want to remember the band new records and new shows only add a small new point to those memories oops i get melancholic its 1.15 in the morning its raining its cold and i´m all alone......... think i listen to low-life and go to bed still over 30 days until NO play in cologne can´t wait ................

New Order probably won't set the pop world aflame, but they'll at least be giving their fans something to look forward to other than another "best of" or Euro-trash remix. That's more than I could ask for

Seb, cheer up!

You need to see them live again! I know the feeling, sometimes you loose steam from listening to them too much, you need to take a breather. But seeing them live, well, that will re-energize you. New Order are like no other band, their idiosyncrasies are probably part of what makes them so great. Yes, most people don't know how great their music is, but oh well, so be it! It makes it easier for the rest of us to get up closer to the stage to see them when they do play live.

I also wish they would play more often (especially in North America), and the longer the set, the better.

When it comes right down to it, they are just musicians, imperfect human beings. But the music....is sooo good. Sure, if they wanted to, they could have become super-rich and successful, but then, they would be just another U2, my second (very distant second) favorite band.