Barney's singing...

Ok I could make this a really really long commentary but I wanted to paint with a broad brush stroke my take on Barney's singing over the years and how it has evolved...happy to hear what you think as well:

Please remember this is just opnion...

Movement years: Trying to sound like Ian a bit and mumbling/speaking lyrics...in a word he was "hiding" a bit while singing. Notably however Temptation is spoken and sung as well...

PCL years: you can finally hear him! He's still mostly speaking/yelling (BM, Ultraviolence, 586) but just starting to really sing (leave me alone, Age of consent) but he is really just singing almost along with the notes of the song...mirroring the melodies.

LowLife years: Barney's getting more confident..enough to yell songs now (TPK, Sunrise,Subculture) he mixes songs with yelling and singing (Face Up, This time of Night) but he is also starting to try his hand at singing a little more...(Love Vigilantes, Sooner than you think)

Brotherhood years: Here he again has songs with yelling and singing (Paradise, Broken Promise) but its interesting to note that the yelling is basically over and he's now perfecting the speaksong (Every little counts, All day long, Angel Dust) and for the first time he sings whole songs (Weirdo, As it Was, Way of Life and of course BLT)

Technique years: The breakdown here is only one spoken/yelling song (Guilty Partner) and a handful of speaksongs (Fine Time, R&R...notably the singles as he feels these are the most "polished" of his style) Dream Attack could also be in this category. But the overwhelming majority of songs are now sung (All The Way, Loveless, Run, Mr. Disco, Vanishing Point)...it is safe to say the next album should be all or almost all singing...with maybe one or two speaksongs and no speaking/yelling songs..wrong...

Republic/Electronic years: Barney is apparently going in the other direction now. Only about half of the songs are sung (Regret, World, Spooky, Everyone Everywhere,Special, Liar) and the other half are now reverting to either speaksongs, speaking or yelling again(RIAD, Young Offender, Times Change, Chemical)...Electronic at this point is almost all sung (Feel Every beat...being a speaksong)

RTP & Twisted Tenderness: Barney moves from techno dance songs to harder edged guitar music and has now come full circle to speaking/yelling songs again like Haze and Prodigal Son...

Get Ready: This Album is almost all speaking/yelling. (Crystal, 60mph, Primitive Notion, Slow Jam, RTS, Close Range,) but a new signing style is also starting to evolve as well (Viscous Streak, SLY, Run Wild) with only Turn My way not fitting into one of these categories...but this new singing style is interesting and it was carried on in Vietnam....

My guess is the new album will be tilted toward songs that are sung and a few with singing/yelling.

Of note: Spoken/Sung songs are hits (Blue Monday, BLT, True Faith, Regret)...speaking/yelling songs are fan faves (except TPK...which was a hit) and speaking only songs are ????

my 2 cents late at night...

i think barneý's singing has been pretty consistent since technique, and his voice is at its best. i think it's at this time that barney finds out where the strength of his voice is. before, it was really low and monotone....that shadow-of-ian phase. and then he starts yelling and singing beyond his range. and now, he's just right. i think he knows the limits of his voice and can sing in the range that is just right. his best vocal work is post technique.

though you did miss one thing....barney's rapping phase! you can find it on republic and electronic's first record. i think they're kinda embarassing....like your dad trying to impress your friends by being "hip" but then again, i think he knows that and feels like it's done in a tongue-in-cheek manner. besides, he usually has a good chorus to follow that atrocious rap, so it's all forgiveable!:D

The change in Barney's vocals can be attributed to one thing - they have finally started writing songs in keys to suit him, rather than always still writing in the keys they used to use to suit Ian. Incredible though it may seem, it took them a very long time to think in terms of setting the key to suit Barney's voice !

I could not listen to NewOrder at all when he was mumbling and trying to sound like Ian (either consciously or unconsciously). He sounds GREAT now.

I think he improved a lot since he sang with Neil at Electronic days.Ian´s voice really doesn´t fit in Barney´s throat.

I have read that the time between Brotherhood and up to the release of True Faith Barney actually took singing lessons. The professionalism audible on True Faith's vocals seems to verify this, with 1963 also highlighting a laid back sophistication.

Originally posted by Huntsman I have read that the time between Brotherhood and up to the release of True Faith Barney actually took singing lessons. The professionalism audible on True Faith's vocals seems to verify this, with 1963 also highlighting a laid back sophistication.

I think he did yea, wasnt that mentioned on the tv documentary about him a while ago???

Originally posted by Snucker i think barneý's singing has been pretty consistent since technique, and his voice is at its best. i think it's at this time that barney finds out where the strength of his voice is. before, it was really low and monotone....that shadow-of-ian phase. and then he starts yelling and singing beyond his range. and now, he's just right. i think he knows the limits of his voice and can sing in the range that is just right. his best vocal work is post technique.though you did miss one thing....barney's rapping phase! you can find it on republic and electronic's first record. i think they're kinda embarassing....like your dad trying to impress your friends by being "hip" but then again, i think he knows that and feels like it's done in a tongue-in-cheek manner. besides, he usually has a good chorus to follow that atrocious rap, so it's all forgiveable!:D

I was really hoping that we would all forget the "rapping" phase...I still refuse to believe that barney tried to rap... :D

Originally posted by Hydrapelican > Originally posted by Snucker i think barneý's singing has been pretty consistent since technique, and his voice is at its best. i think it's at this time that barney finds out where the strength of his voice is. before, it was really low and monotone....that shadow-of-ian phase. and then he starts yelling and singing beyond his range. and now, he's just right. i think he knows the limits of his voice and can sing in the range that is just right. his best vocal work is post technique.though you did miss one thing....barney's rapping phase! you can find it on republic and electronic's first record. i think they're kinda embarassing....like your dad trying to impress your friends by being "hip" but then again, i think he knows that and feels like it's done in a tongue-in-cheek manner. besides, he usually has a good chorus to follow that atrocious rap, so it's all forgiveable!:D

I was really hoping that we would all forget the "rapping" phase...I still refuse to believe that barney tried to rap... :D

I don't mind his rapping with Electronic at all, I think it kind of worked. But really, Barney...sullying New Order's back catalogue with it...

The problem with Times Change is that it seems to be a quite serious attempt, whereas on Electronic (and John Barnes on WIM) it was more tongue in cheek.

Originally posted by DoN > Originally posted by Huntsman> I have read that the time between Brotherhood and up to the release of True Faith Barney actually took singing lessons. The professionalism audible on True Faith's vocals seems to verify this, with 1963 also highlighting a laid back sophistication.> >

I think he did yea, wasnt that mentioned on the tv documentary about him a while ago???

Didn't he take lessons at the request of Stephen Hague? They had sort of a love/hate relationship, didn't they.

Bernard does an extraordinary job now. At first he was crap and he knew it, and really didn't care. Now, he works hard at it and he's comfortable with himself as a singer.

I heard "Out Of Control" by the Chemicals again earlier today on Radio 1 and it's amazing how uncanny Barney's voice - as of now - can sound to that of Bobby Gillespie from Primal Scream. No wonder they now share such affinities with each other. My only problem with Barney's voice/singing now is that I wish the fat sod never ever learned how to whoop. That's why I can't bear to watch them live - most of the time during ANY song, you wait in nervous trepidation for when he starts doing it...and it always makes me cringe. Why doesn't he just pack it in (whooping that is)? - its unneccessary and not to mention utterly embarrasing.

Originally posted by Simple Headphone Mind I heard "Out Of Control" by the Chemicals again earlier today on Radio 1 and it's amazing how uncanny Barney's voice - as of now - can sound to that of Bobby Gillespie from Primal Scream. No wonder they now share such affinities with each other.

i've been saying that all along about barney's and bobby's vocals. someone agrees with me.

Originally posted by Mark The Macc I heard "Out Of Control" by the Chemicals again earlier today on Radio 1 and it's amazing how uncanny Barney's voice - as of now - can sound to that of Bobby Gillespie from Primal Scream.

Radio 1 played Out Of Control? How cool's that? They never play it. That's the song that made me go and check out NO in the first place! Can't hear the resemblance between Bobby and Barney myself (maybe I'm deaf). Next to Barney, Bobby just doesn't compare!

Originally posted by Shelley Blair > Originally posted by Mark The Macc> I heard "Out Of Control" by the Chemicals again earlier today on Radio 1 and it's amazing how uncanny Barney's voice - as of now - can sound to that of Bobby Gillespie from Primal Scream.

Radio 1 played Out Of Control? How cool's that? They never play it. That's the song that made me go and check out NO in the first place! Can't hear the resemblance between Bobby and Barney myself (maybe I'm deaf). Next to Barney, Bobby just doesn't compare!

I concur with the similarities. They both have pretty weak voices when it comes down to it, but they really find a way to work with what they have.

I'm sure Barney would have been forced to shape up if the order didn't produce themselves so often at the beginning (and Hannett was more than willing to have Barney ape Ian as much as he did during Movement) if the Stephen Hague story is true. I know when Primal Scream were trying to record one of their first couple of records, they went through several producers because they couldnt cope with Bobby's unfortunate lack of signing ability =)

Primal Scream are crap

Originally posted by James Stephen Barnes Primal Scream are crap

i'll pretend i didn't hear that.

John Robie is credited with first suggesting the change of key during the recording of Shellshock.

Originally posted by James Stephen Barnes Primal Scream are crap

  :eek3:

I personally love the growling and whooping Bernard does live, not to mention the utterly gratuitous swearing (with which he comes across as a choirboy doing a Liam Gallagher impersonation). Not sure why he does it, but it works. Hey! I know why! Otherwise, New Order live tracks would sound just like the studio recordings!:D

So what are Bernard's best vocal performances of all time? I think his vocals on "Electronic" are among his best ever, especially on "Get The Message".

Originally posted by Spotnick The only song I know from Primal Scream is ROCKS... and it's the only song that crossed the ocean I guess.. I saw them live as the support band for Depeche Mode in 1993, but I don't remember much of their act.As for Bernard, I'm sure the major issue with his voice is technology, that's the main reason why his voice sounds better these days... otherwise, explain why he can't sing BLT at all live ;)

Agreed that his voice has recieved heavy treatment and reverb at times in the studio...and I also agree that some of his best singing comes on Electronic songs where he can control all of the notes/keys and is able to perhaps feel more comfortable within his range