Audiences suing bands...

Interesting article, I thought. Any Americans here care to disagree with the sentiments expressed?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,944679,00.html

And what would you sue New Order for, I wonder? (M'lord, the plaintiff submits that the defendant's persistance in making deranged whooping noises throughout the performance of 'atmosphere' caused him severe mental distress...)

[not sure if this is on topic or not, really]

[Content deleted by AgentWood on 4/28/2003 12:28:59 PM EDT]

lord, no. i agree with the article 100%. creed should have been flown straight to the hague ages ago to be tried for crimes against humanity. although why the plaintiff had the lame-brained idea to pay good money to see them in concert in the first place is beyond me.

as for suing new order...perhaps punitive damages for keeping us waiting so long between 'republic' and 'get ready' would have been appropriate!

I read this article on the train this morning and laughed heartily (particularly the bit about our US friends seeking total perfection at a live gig - bit of a sweeping statement, as I'm sure most of the US NOOLers will testify to).

Jeez, if I'd have thought of this 20 years ago when New Order were inflicting crapped-out sequencers on their audiences, debut songs with made up lyrics about the lead singer's cock being as big as the M1, Hooky's mullet, Steve's taste in cycling tops (just remembered that, courtesy of Shug's video), Barney's acid house dancing and whooping, Gillian's complete disregard for male fans with their tongues hanging out in front of her, I'd have sued for millions for emotional disturbance.

Hmm, thinking about it, that's exactly why I liked them, a point I think that is well made in the article.

The fact that they're Creed fans explains everything. Idiots!!!

Eh, it won't really go anywhere so I wouldn't worry.

Although I could sue Killing Joke for not releasing an album in 7 years.

And I could sure New Order for failing to come to America enough for me to see them live.

Hmmm, come to think of it you could go far with this twisted logic.

I've been reading about this story ever since the first reports of the singer's, umm, erratic onstage behavior surfaced late last year. No, I'm NOT a fan of the band, just interested in the bizarre, of which this surely qualifies. From the Chicago Sun-Times...

Each of the four named plaintiffs in the suit seeks a refund of the $56.75 cost of each ticket, as well as parking expenses.

The plaintiffs also are asking a judge to certify the suit as a class action, so other fans who were at the Rosemont show could also get refunds. If the whole class of concertgoers is certified, the total could be $2 million.

Creed issued a written apology to fans in January, saying, "We apologize if you don't feel that the show was up to the very high standards set by our previous shows in Chicago. ... There has been much concern about Scott's health, and we want to assure everyone that he is doing very well."

But the band offered no refund.

Fans might have been surprised by Stapp's alleged drunkenness. The group sings songs with Christian subtext, and Stapp preaches against the evils of alcohol.

But the lawsuit says fellow band members Mark Tremonti and Scott Phillips knew of his condition and decided, along with Ticketmaster and management company JHMP, to go ahead with the show rather than cancel it and have to offer refunds.

Hard to say what the courts'll say on this one, but I would've also asked for gas money as well. From all accounts, though, the singer was in pretty bad shape.

I've seen and heard Barney when he was a tad surly, but nobody ever came as close to being totally out-of-it as Jeffrey Lee Pierce (RIP) of the Gun Club, who was so strung out that he could barely stand and sing. Truly the most painful gig I've ever seen, but since it only cost about 6 bucks to get in, we didn't complain too much.

I would have to agree with the overall sentiment - If I paid a hundred dollars for a show and then proceed to watch a half assed lame representation of a show, I would be totally ticked off. That is one reason why I don't blow my hard earned money on a bunch of overpaid, usually unappreciative prima donnas who think that they don't have a responsibility to their fans who spend their hard earned money to see them.

Originally posted by Will Scheipers Eh, it won't really go anywhere so I wouldn't worry. Although I could sue Killing Joke for not releasing an album in 7 years.And I could sure New Order for failing to come to America enough for me to see them live.Hmmm, come to think of it you could go far with this twisted logic.

I'd sue:

...Killing Joke for making Outside the Gate one of the WORST albums I've ever heard.

...all my fave bands for pretty much ignoring the heartland of America in favor of shows only in NY and LA.

...Ultravox for U-vox, Warren Cann for splitting and thus making U-vox possible, and Billy Currie for carrying the name on after the others left.

...Duran Duran for doing the Arcadia and Power Station side projects.

...Paul Weller for being a butthead and for writing such incredible songs that I forget that he's a butthead.

...Bonzo and Moonie for OD'ing.

...NewOrder for not touring enough, splitting for YEARS, and for letting Gillian leave.

I can think of more....

Originally posted by Green I've been reading about this story ever since the first reports of the singer's, umm, erratic onstage behavior surfaced late last year. No, I'm NOT a fan of the band, just interested in the bizarre, of which this surely qualifies. From the Chicago Sun-Times...> Each of the four named plaintiffs in the suit seeks a refund of the $56.75 cost of each ticket, as well as parking expenses. > > The plaintiffs also are asking a judge to certify the suit as a class action, so other fans who were at the Rosemont show could also get refunds. If the whole class of concertgoers is certified, the total could be $2 million.> > Creed issued a written apology to fans in January, saying, "We apologize if you don't feel that the show was up to the very high standards set by our previous shows in Chicago. ... There has been much concern about Scott's health, and we want to assure everyone that he is doing very well."> > But the band offered no refund.> > Fans might have been surprised by Stapp's alleged drunkenness. The group sings songs with Christian subtext, and Stapp preaches against the evils of alcohol.> > But the lawsuit says fellow band members Mark Tremonti and Scott Phillips knew of his condition and decided, along with Ticketmaster and management company JHMP, to go ahead with the show rather than cancel it and have to offer refunds. Hard to say what the courts'll say on this one, but I would've also asked for gas money as well. From all accounts, though, the singer was in pretty bad shape. I've seen and heard Barney when he was a tad surly, but nobody ever came as close to being totally out-of-it as Jeffrey Lee Pierce (RIP) of the Gun Club, who was so strung out that he could barely stand and sing. Truly the most painful gig I've ever seen, but since it only cost about 6 bucks to get in, we didn't complain too much.

ever see the pogues back in the day?

The very first gig (concerts in those days) I saw was a band (groups in those days) called Audience at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester in 1970ish. They were fairly bad and at one stage the drummer who wore shorts played the drums with a school bell in one hand. And this was pre-punk.

Now that would have been a novel twist.. audience suing audience!

Originally posted by a very small boy The very first gig (concerts in those days) I saw was a band (groups in those days) called Audience at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester in 1970ish. They were fairly bad and at one stage the drummer who wore shorts played the drums with a school bell in one hand. And this was pre-punk.Now that would have been a novel twist.. audience suing audience!

I take it this was before Soppy Ellis Bigmouth had even been practiced shagged for ?

Originally posted by Spotnick For letting Gillian leave?

Hey come on, she left for a VERY GOOD reason, plus she didn't really leave the band, she shows up once in a while.

I'm sorry, but taking care of her kid is more important that touring with the band!

(do not take this too seriously!)

I know what you mean and her kid is an incredibly important reason for her decreased participation. It's just a bummer. I WILL be happy if she's on the albums. :D:D:D:D

Well, I was forced to sit through a "Christian rock" concert as part of a 'free' trip to Carowinds (stateside amusment park for those who don't know) about 6 years ago. I wonder if the statute of limitations has run out. I can't claim I didn't know what I was getting myself into, I mean the trip was the reward for sitting through a week of summer "Church camp" so I should have known better.

How about a lawsuit against the guy who coined the phrase "New Order rose from the ashes of Joy Division". I can't tell you how sick I am of running across that in any article about NO by someone who's obviously never written about the band before and just wants to sound "ironic" or "chic". Better yet, sue the bastard behind "Christian rock"; something tells me Jesus and Grand Funk Railroad have little in common....

I admit I'd never heard of Creed before and hope never to hear of them again (from the sound of it they seem like a right-wing U2, only more full of themselves, God help us).

But do any American folk want to argue with the somewhat sweeping generalisation in the article about Americans wanting their live performances note-perfect? Surely if it were true NO would have no following at all over there, but then how does one explain the existence of all these 'jam bands' whose bootlegs seem to be everywhere on the net.

I was hoping for a good transatlantic row here! :)

I'd sue:

...Killing Joke for making Outside the Gate one of the WORST albums I've ever heard.

...all my fave bands for pretty much ignoring the heartland of America in favor of shows only in NY and LA.

...Ultravox for U-vox, Warren Cann for splitting and thus making U-vox possible, and Billy Currie for carrying the name on after the others left.

...Duran Duran for doing the Arcadia and Power Station side projects.

...Paul Weller for being a butthead and for writing such incredible songs that I forget that he's a butthead.

...Bonzo and Moonie for OD'ing.

...NewOrder for not touring enough, splitting for YEARS, and for letting Gillian leave.

I can think of more....

Well the number of lawsuits for Outside the Gate would be plentiful so we'll spare them that one.

Originally posted by 404 error I admit I'd never heard of Creed before and hope never to hear of them again (from the sound of it they seem like a right-wing U2, only more full of themselves, God help us). But do any American folk want to argue with the somewhat sweeping generalisation in the article about Americans wanting their live performances note-perfect? Surely if it were true NO would have no following at all over there, but then how does one explain the existence of all these 'jam bands' whose bootlegs seem to be everywhere on the net. I was hoping for a good transatlantic row here! :)

Hmmm, well I figured the idea that Americans want everything perfect note for note was so silly I actually forgot to comment on it.

Personally, the bands that I listen to haven't toured in so long that I would take them no matter how they sounded.

Originally posted by 404 error I admit I'd never heard of Creed before and hope never to hear of them again (from the sound of it they seem like a right-wing U2, only more full of themselves, God help us). But do any American folk want to argue with the somewhat sweeping generalisation in the article about Americans wanting their live performances note-perfect? Surely if it were true NO would have no following at all over there, but then how does one explain the existence of all these 'jam bands' whose bootlegs seem to be everywhere on the net. I was hoping for a good transatlantic row here! :)

I would imagine a good percentage of 'em would want something near-perfect (including, god forbid, lip-synching live, for the teenybopper boy band fans), but apparently Creed's singer behaviour was really pathetic that night. Hard to say exactly how most mainstream fans feel about the subject these days (I've gone to exactly 2 big arena shows in the last decade: Neil Young with Sonic Youth 10 years ago, plus U2 on their last tour, so I'm not the best judge on that front).

I'm sure that the steep increase in ticket prices plays a big factor in the expectations of an audience, and while there are often Spinal Tap-ish moments for every band, I think some bands are better suited to handle those than others (much as you may dislike 'em, I'd definitely put U2 in that category, what with Adam missing a gig completely in Austrailia a few years ago, etc. ).

Sorry, but I prefer to go to smaller clubs and venues to watch bands and performers, where a 'warts 'n all' attitude is more permissible. One example from late last year: I caught a set from Sally Timms, vocalist from the Mekons, who was doing a small tour on the West Coast. Backing her was the female from the Spinanes plus another female, who is now playing in Stephen Malkmus's Jicks. Before the show, Sally was teaching the last female the chords to one song (John Cale's Half Past France). When the time came to play the song, the guitar player picked the chords in a very slow, careful manner, which added a wonderful shimmer to the song (if you've not heard that, it's in the style of the Velvet's Sunday Morning ) . It didn't sound exactly like the album, but I swear that all 75 people there held their breath for the 3 and a half minutes the song lasted.

However, if I went to see an "artist" like G. G. Allin then I would deserve all of the abuse I would get, minus the flying feces of course. :)

Originally posted by 404 error I admit I'd never heard of Creed before and hope never to hear of them again (from the sound of it they seem like a right-wing U2, only more full of themselves, God help us). But do any American folk want to argue with the somewhat sweeping generalisation in the article about Americans wanting their live performances note-perfect?

the lead singer of creed makes bono look like he wears a hairshirt.

as for perfection in concerts, i think it's more entertaining when the bands are a bit off. for example, one of my most memorable concert moments was seeing jesus lizard opening for dinosaur jr. at this tiny venue (a few hundred people) in denver. the guitarist was so pissed he leaned against the amps and slowly slid down until he was on the floor. he never rose again. then, the lead singer proceeded to undress himself onstage. the roadies had to steer him off-stage and put his trousers back on. as the guitarist was napping on the floor, however, there really wasn't any point!

consequently, the other opening band was this little-known band from seattle who was about to release their major-label debut in a few weeks and were touring as an opening act in small clubs to promote the album--three guys named nirvana. that was pretty cool. if i only knew at the time what the next few months would bring!

Shitty concerts are probably the most rememberable. "Yes, I was there when Hooky shot Bernard."

Then again, when the main act sucks, the openners look better. I was at 1st Ave to see Ninch Inch Nails, Meat Beast Manifesto openned up and blew my mind. NIN sucked, having to redo the boards after every song, announcing that every other song was about fucking, blowing amps up. Bad sound, bad gig but I knew that the next day I was going to get my hands on every MBM product I could.

Leaving aside Outside The Gate (although it does have it coming), I'd sue The 'Oo for terrifying me throughout my childhood with Boris The Spider.

I'd sue Louis Walsh for his Boy Band conveyor-belt industry.

Sonic and Jason for splitting up Spacemen 3.

New Order for releasing Republic, even...

Originally posted by Chris Guevara Shitty concerts are probably the most rememberable. "Yes, I was there when Hooky shot Bernard."

Creed is the poor, poor, poor, poor, poor man's Pearl Jam, and even then they suck ass. It's kinda like an old Conan O'Brien joke about a Vince Neil concert: "......Neil abused the audience vocally, saying they were all pathetic. The audience agreed, as they were paying money to see Vince Neil." You get what you pay for....

Originally posted by Sound of Confusion I'd sue Louis Walsh for his Boy Band conveyor-belt industry.

I hate to say this (for it means I know far too much), but I think you mean Lou Pearlman, the big, sewaty, sexually ambigious Satan behind BSB, Nsuck, and various other crap. I'm on the fence when it comes to captial punishment, but that guy would be my first vote for execution under "crimes against humanity" in the eventual trial of Teen Pop Stars after the fall of boy bands.

Originally posted by Taboo # 7 > Originally posted by Sound of Confusion> > > I'd sue Louis Walsh for his Boy Band conveyor-belt industry.>

I hate to say this (for it means I know far too much), but I think you mean Lou Pearlman, the big, sewaty, sexually ambigious Satan behind BSB, Nsuck, and various other crap. I'm on the fence when it comes to captial punishment, but that guy would be my first vote for execution under "crimes against humanity" in the eventual trial of Teen Pop Stars after the fall of boy bands.

as mr. pearlman lives in orlando, i could probably 'take care' of him without the need for capital punishment. know what i mean?

having said that, justin timberlake is a righteous babe, and my best friend has a copy of the n'sync 'uno' game and it's quite fun to play, actually.

Originally posted by AgentWood the lead singer of creed makes bono look like he wears a hairshirt.as for perfection in concerts, i think it's more entertaining when the bands are a bit off. for example, one of my most memorable concert moments was seeing jesus lizard opening for dinosaur jr. at this tiny venue (a few hundred people) in denver. the guitarist was so pissed he leaned against the amps and slowly slid down until he was on the floor. he never rose again. then, the lead singer proceeded to undress himself onstage. the roadies had to steer him off-stage and put his trousers back on. as the guitarist was napping on the floor, however, there really wasn't any point!consequently, the other opening band was this little-known band from seattle who was about to release their major-label debut in a few weeks and were touring as an opening act in small clubs to promote the album--three guys named nirvana. that was pretty cool. if i only knew at the time what the next few months would bring!

Sounds like a memorable gig. I wonder what became of that support act? 'Nirvana', hmmm - sounds like a bunch of annoying hippies to me. Probably still slogging away on the toilet circuit...

Originally posted by Taboo # 7 > Originally posted by Sound of Confusion> > > I'd sue Louis Walsh for his Boy Band conveyor-belt industry.

I hate to say this (for it means I know far too much), but I think you mean Lou Pearlman, the big, sewaty, sexually ambigious Satan behind BSB, Nsuck, and various other crap. I'm on the fence when it comes to captial punishment, but that guy would be my first vote for execution under "crimes against humanity" in the eventual trial of Teen Pop Stars after the fall of boy bands.

Actually, I saw o-town in 2000, since my mother and sister dragged me to one of their gigs at a mall outside of Philadelphia. Sequencers - yes. Out of tune singing - yes. Oh man, did I cringe. And the dancing was worse than Barney's. And being around a bunch of screaming pre-teens... I actually wore a Cure 17-seconds era shirt there, but it was simply bad, bad, bad. I almost wished they lip-sinced instead of causing me excrusciating, ear-splitting pain.