Movement: continuing or coping?

Although I'm sure I'll get attacked for this, I find Movement to be one of NO's best albums. Its almost consistently dark sound makes it arguably one of the most cohesive sounding NO albums (along with PCL and Low-Life, in my opinion).

From past posts, it seems most are in agreement that Movement was the awkward transition between JD and NO. Obviously Movement was inspired in large part by the musical direction that Joy Division had been moving in on Closer; "In a Lonely Place," for example, although seperate from Movement, sounds considerably like many of the darker songs on that first album.

What I'm wondering is whether or not people think (as seems to be the popular opinion) Movement was more of a continuation of the JD sound before the more electronic NO sound developed on PCL--or whether the darkness of the songs on Movement was more of the band members trying to cope with Ian's death. That is, was that transitional album get its dark sound more from the music that JD had played, or did it come more from the aftermath of Ian's suicide? Would the album have sounded as dark if they had perhaps waited for several years, in order to properly come to terms with the death, before recording again--or was Movement more of a necessary means of expressing their sense of loss through the creation of such dark music?

Sure, NO has had songs since then that make references to Ian, and the band has made some albums with a dark edge--but none of them I would say have a darkness comparable to that on Movement. So what do you all think about this?

Although it was surely a combination of the two, was the album more about continuing the JD sound, or was it more of a means of coping/expressing what they felt following Ian's death?

I like Movement and appreciate New Order's 'darker' and (more experimental?) sound. Contrary to most people's opinions on this Forum I like Murder too! Even Blue Monday had a rather DARK feel to it.

Ian's death no doubt played a part in Movement's sound, but also the MH production and instrumentation/technology at the time added to the feel.

B

I like Movement cos the blue coloured sleeve keeps me calm and makes the killing stop.

I know Movement must have been rough for NO, but it almost ruined them for me. I have a hard time listening to it.

Originally posted by Major Tarantino I like Movement cos the blue coloured sleeve keeps me calm and makes the killing stop.

Sensible lad...is that why i need the CAR CARRIER CD case and don't drive?Just a thought...Mind you i am rather CALM don't you think MAJOR T?:D

Movement is almost entirely without merit. Not sure why they didn't notice it was lacking in melody and did not have any worthy single on it ... unlike the latter JD stuff.

If it served for them to hone their craft then that's fine, but to say its one of their better albums is pippa. Even the band say its chump.

Unlike several other postmen I never really enjoy Dreams Around the Bend, finding Huskins vocals a bit tin tin. Although the music is quite nice, its a bit bland as bare toast. That said, I would welcome Huskins to sing on anything, its just unfortunate that the standout track from Mole Hunt has him singing on it and is a bit tiskins.

On the whole, Mole Hunt is memorable for its cover, which rises above the content. It calls into question the phrase 'don't judge a book by its cover'. In this instance, it should be 'don't remove Mole Hunt from the sleeve - it'll have you skipping like a monkey'.

Skipping like moneys causes damage to the RAINFORRESTS so please refrain from this at all times.Especially if you have a crap cassette on your WALKMAN! Rocket Mick saves the WORLD ...again.:p

They decided to carry on in 1980.So they rushed to record a new album before it was too late for them.They still had Joy Division's shadow next to them and Martin hannet as their productor.Ian's death affected everybody mainly Martin.Maybe Movement have some songs not released as Joy Division.The song was written and not included lyrics on it.I like Movement and don't agree that it almost ruined New Order career.They decided to have a Joy Division member as a singer cause this supossed new singer would be compared with Ian.Barney was the perfect choice and they´re here to prove that their the best always and now. :)

P.S - Steve :"we were learning how to write songs without Ian".

Its alright, but they werent that experianced at making music or writing lyrics then and it blatently shows..

I've always thought it was flawed brilliance. Flawed, in my humble opinion, by the production. I've no idea why Martin Hannett didn't get it right for this one but the instruments don't sound anywhere near as clinically defined as they are on the JD records - it's a bit merged and muddy. Some of the tracks are appreciated better on live tapes where you can extra bits going on. I feel the third JD album - if it had happened - would have sounded pretty much like Movement, instrument wise, obviously the lyrics would have been noticeably different. It sounds better to my ears if you imagine Ian's vocals on the tracks and not Bernard's. It's like a rehearsal demo of what could have been.

funny, i was listening to movement when i got up this morning. i think it was a bit of both, the band members were struggling with ian's death and JD's music was a little down-trodden anyways. sonically, i don't think a third JD record would sound very different from movement, but i'm sure the general emotions and feel of their record would have been different.

i wouldn't say it was their best, but it has it merits. i've haven't been able to really absorb the record yet or taken the time to anyways. but when i first heard it, i thought it was one of those records you had to listen to repeatedly to enjoy or you just had to be in a certain moode to enjoy it. it's not instantly likeable, like technique, but it is dreary and difficult to listen to. but it never bored me and i don't think NO ever really made a bad record...but as for their side projects go, that's another story.

I see it more as a coping album than a continuation, because they couldn't really continue on with the same style as JD lest they be accused of unoriginality or just plain stubborness. What I mean is, if they had continued in the dark, moody style of JD they would have just faded away as a sad parody of their former self.

I don't think they consciously said "Right, we're making disco records now!", but after Ian's death each band member began to look for something to inspire them to carry on. Electronic music saved them from falling apart, it showed the way for them to go. I think we can all agree that New Order would have nullified their career by continuing to record JD-style material, but by the time of Movement they weren't quite there yet. So NO had to do one album of JD-like material, but only one.

Originally posted by Snucker and i don't think NO ever really made a bad record...but as for their side projects go, that's another story.

im sooooooooooooooo close to agreeing with everything you said there However.. I hope you dont include ELECTRONIC in your dismissal of side projects...

Originally posted by DoN Its alright, but they werent that experianced at making music or writing lyrics then and it blatently shows..

I hope you are taking the piss here Don - these are the same people who wrote LWTUA and Atmosphere just over a year earlier !! So many people seem to think Curtis wrote the songs - he didn't, he just wrote the lyrics. Barney has always been tune writer.

Movement's great - if you like muddy production that is almost trying to hide the songs away. The songs themselves are good enough, particularly Chosen Time (a long-lost NO gem), but the sub-standard production doesn't do them justice.

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes > Originally posted > I hope you are taking the piss here Don - these are the same people who wrote LWTUA and Atmosphere just over a year earlier !! So many people seem to think Curtis wrote the songs - he didn't, he just wrote the lyrics. Barney has always been tune writer.

So Benny,

What does Peter do in the band ? Is he the hairdresser ?

Originally posted by Spotnick And Mrs Snucker, if you tell me that Electronic's first album is not up there with most New Order album, you should definitively give it more tries.. this is a top notch album, it's not true of the other 2, but this album has NO bad tracks, unlike all other side project albums.Altough I'm one of the few that actually enjoy Monaco's second album...

how do you guys know i'm talking about electronic? you guys have longer memories than i thought. i actually quite enjoy the first electronic record, but i couldn't really say the same for raise the pressure. RTP has some great tracks and some really embarassing ones....dark angel comes to mind.

I love Movement. It's actually probably my favorite New Order album. Mostly because of Doubts Even Here, The Him and Truth. Though I have to admit, the only song that gets skipped (and not very often at that) is Senses. But as far as moving on or coping goes.. I guess both yeah, but I think it's moreso where Joy Division themselves would have gone.

Consider if Movement did not exist. For me there would have been a gap; something missing. I listen to it regularly and like it; it has it's own specific 'soundscape'.

It definitely has its place in the New Order catalogue. The band had to work through it's JD incarnation, it is virtually impossible to picture the transition between Closer and PCL--there had to be something inbetween.

Personally I only owned Movement and PL&C for a long time before moving on to other new order albums. I think movement is a fine album hampered by a lot of conflicting ideas.

Hooky has said him and Barney wanted a more "rockish" sound while Martin wanted a more "wimpy goth type feel." So there was bound to be problems with the production.

Plus I've always wondered how much of movement existed before Ian's death. Anyone know?

From, Will

Originally posted by Will Scheipers Personally I only owned Movement and PL&C for a long time before moving on to other new order albums. I think movement is a fine album hampered by a lot of conflicting ideas.Hooky has said him and Barney wanted a more "rockish" sound while Martin wanted a more "wimpy goth type feel." So there was bound to be problems with the production.Plus I've always wondered how much of movement existed before Ian's death. Anyone know?From,Will

I doubt any of the songs predated Ian's demise, I think there is some evidence that a few songs were written in the period following Ian's death when the band were trying to start their own new careers. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Movement's songs are post-Curtis compositions.

I still love Movement and, in fact, only prefer Technique and Get Ready as overall albums. There are many better individual songs than those on Movement but they are still strong and there is a great cohesive feel to them together.

Incidently, I don't think I have a heavier disc. It's a dirty great slab of a thing.

Must be hard for a new orde fan to go and listen to Movement for the first time knowing that the band hate it [though not technically true]..first time i heard it, was after i saw Taras Shevenko video, so i knew the feel of it..

I dont see what the big deal is, its my favorite NO album and i dont know why. i think it has some of the best drumming on it and bass riffs.

Just dont belive the bullshit.

Originally posted by Justin&nbspLazic It definitely has its place in the New Order catalogue. The band had to work through it's JD incarnation, it is virtually impossible to picture the transition between Closer and PCL--there had to be something inbetween.

Absolutely spot on Justin Movement has some good, if not particularly great tracks, but it has to be taken in its historical context. An alternative title could have been "Transition", but I guess that would have been corny.

The songs are very strong, but what happened with Martin Hannett? how could he have got it right with Procession, Mesh, Cries & Whispers and In A Lonely Place etc. and get it so wrong with Movement, I don't know whether these were recorded together in the same session or were spaced out. I think I have just answered my question!

As someone said earlier - there *has* to be something between Closer and PCL otherwise it doesn't make sense. Although the production is lumpen on Movement there are some good songs on it, my personal favourite is Chosen Time. Also, live tapes around the time (such as Taras Schevchenko)show (imho)that they were doing a great live set at the time, which is where some of the songs sound best. I first got into them having heard some JD stuff and the NO singles up to EGG (most under-rated single and better than the copy-cat Temptation), saw them live at Hull Tower - and was blown away! The *pop* side of NO is fine, but the stuff that still challenges is the more experimental stuff. Must go, the nurse is here with the medication.