Bernard Sumner's Band Equipment

What's up Folks, does anybody know what kind of effects Bernard Sumner uses? I've already read some reviews on what he used in Joy Division.. but anybody know what he uses in New Order? So far this is what I have..

Also, i've tried to imitate joy division sound by using a boss overdrive pedal to eliminate the need for an attenuator and a boss flange and chorus with a 61 gibson sg and vox AC30 amp...still sounds like crap.. anybody know what's up?

Joy Division

Guitar -Gibson SG (70's) -VOX PHANTOM

Effects -Melos Echo/Delay Unit -Unknown Chorus/Flanger -MXR 10 band eq -Altair PW-5 Power Attenuator

AMP -VOX UL730 HEAD with 2X12 Cabinet

New Order

Guitars -Gibson E-335 TD (dark brown/black) -Gibson E-330 Sunburst -Gibson SG Junior -Gibson SG (70's) -Rickenbacker 335 -Fender Strat

Effects??

Amp -2 Vox AC-30 w/ (GREENBACK SPEAKERS)

Barney also used a Shergold Modulator guitar, it's in the Granada TV performances of 'She's Lost Control' and 'Transmission', and I don't know about the other one you had listed (which he may also have used) but he used a Binson Echorec 2 generally, it was always on acting as a preamp even when the effect was off. His setup back then was unusual in that the amp head has a solid state preamp section going to an ultralinear tube power amp. The preamp has built in germanium fuzz as well as tremelo and spring reverb. That particular Binson is all tube, so in effect he was going through a tube preamp with the delay effects, then a solid state preamp with other effects, then pedals (but I don't think he used that much else), then a tube power amp. I have an Altair attenuator, but they aren't particularly good by modern standards, and he only used it for a little volume reduction, it is not an essential part of the sound. If you want to get, ahem, closer, I suggest getting a good germanium fuzz pedal (a Colorsound Supa Tonebender is a solid choice), and using that with the delay of your choice into the AC30. The speakers in his UL730 cabinet were probably ceramic, which is not the classic AC30 speaker, so the low end of your sound will not be as solid as his, the open back cabinet of the AC30 will also work against you here. If you could run the amp into a sealed back 2 x 12 cabinet with Fane or Celestion 25 watt speakers from the late 60s you should get very close, even better if you can get a valve tape echo such as a Copicat. I wouldn't recommend a Binson as they are fabulously expensive and often are a nightmare to keep working, although they are hard to beat when they are running.

It was a Shergold Masquerader rather than a Modulator, with a Fender tremelo fitted to it. According to the Shergold website anyway !

He was often pictured with a guitar with an E on it. Epiphone was I think the make.

Originally posted by teleharmonium Barney also used a Shergold Modulator guitar, it's in the Granada TV performances of 'She's Lost Control' and 'Transmission', and I don't know about the other one you had listed (which he may also have used) but he used a Binson Echorec 2 generally, it was always on acting as a preamp even when the effect was off.His setup back then was unusual in that the amp head has a solid state preamp section going to an ultralinear tube power amp. The preamp has built in germanium fuzz as well as tremelo and spring reverb. That particular Binson is all tube, so in effect he was going through a tube preamp with the delay effects, then a solid state preamp with other effects, then pedals (but I don't think he used that much else), then a tube power amp.I have an Altair attenuator, but they aren't particularly good by modern standards, and he only used it for a little volume reduction, it is not an essential part of the sound. If you want to get, ahem, closer, I suggest getting a good germanium fuzz pedal (a Colorsound Supa Tonebender is a solid choice), and using that with the delay of your choice into the AC30. The speakers in his UL730 cabinet were probably ceramic, which is not the classic AC30 speaker, so the low end of your sound will not be as solid as his, the open back cabinet of the AC30 will also work against you here. If you could run the amp into a sealed back 2 x 12 cabinet with Fane or Celestion 25 watt speakers from the late 60s you should get very close, even better if you can get a valve tape echo such as a Copicat. I wouldn't recommend a Binson as they are fabulously expensive and often are a nightmare to keep working, although they are hard to beat when they are running.

Dude!

Thanx man for the info, helped a lot!
As for those colorsound fuzz pedals... it's almost impossible to find one or they're goin for at least several hundred dollars.. maybe i can just go and get something similar to it.. but thanx tho.

BTW... do u know how he gets that glassy/clean/almost jingly jangly distortion?

john kim wrote: "do u know how he gets that glassy/clean/almost jingly jangly distortion? "

that's mainly the amp, a good Vox will give you great power amp distortion while the preamp stays clean sounding, so that you can get a great semi clean sound just by playing lighter with your right hand or by rolling back the volume a bit on the guitar. That sound is simply an in between point between a clean amp and heavy natural distortion,with the 'right' speakers. Actually any good tube amp can do that to some degree as long as you don't muck it up with super high output pickups or lots of noisy effects pedals or cheap cables. Vox amps tend to excel at those sounds because they tend to have simple circuits, no master volume, and speakers that sound great clean or distorted. Vintage style fuzz pedals are usually a lot better at 'cleaning up' than modern ones.

You might want to hang out at voxtalks.com for a while to pick up this kind of info. Are you actually trying to replicate his sound, for a tribute band or something, or is it more of a fun or theoretical thing ? One other thing, if your AC30 does not have a top boost panel fitted on the back (with 2 knobs, bass and treble), you might want to either have one fitted, or get a treble booster such as a repro 'Rangemaster', Menatone 'Top Boost in a Can', or the Vox Brian May amp, which is a small, cheap solid state amp that you can also use as an outboard treble booster.

Originally posted by teleharmonium You might want to hang out at voxtalks.com for a while to pick up this kind of info. Are you actually trying to replicate his sound, for a tribute band or something, or is it more of a fun or theoretical thing ?

Mmmm...Vox...(insert Homer Simpson drooling sound effect here)

The thing about Bernard's guitar tone:

From Joy Division through Low Life - amazing Late 80s Bernard (Brotherhood, Shell Shock, TBTHOG, State of the Nation) - sucks Get Ready - amazing

You are correct Gnu, that was the period where he was experimenting with Stratocasters and different amps, I think he used a Roland solid state amp for a while even, I'm so glad he got back his clue. Some shows from that time still had pretty good guitar sounds, but there were many with thin, shrill, painful guitar.

As a side note: I was having an argument with a guitarist at a gig once, he wanted to pu a mic on his Orange 150W stack, ina 300seater venue. I was trying to explain that guitar amps tend to be loud beyond their watts. A very senior engineer happened to be in attendance, and related a little story. He was doing an outdoor gig in the Ballymena showgrounds, a football stadium, with a 20K PA. there was a guitarist armed with nothing but a gibson SG and a Vox AC30, no mic. It was wiping the whole soundsystem out, drowning everything. He went on talkback to the guy and explained that if he didn;t turn it down he'd be strumming an E chord when he walked. Just goes to show. BTW, Barney also has an SG.