She's Lost Control

and why...

I love both versions, but i think the 12" version just works a lot better. More effective and what not, and the way Hannett produced it is amazing.

Actually, my fave is a live version. "There's something you will never understand...she's lost control". When was it played? I think was Paris, 78, not sure. Anyway, is a very punky version.

I'll take the original.

You are mistaken Seu Madruga.It was The Factory - Hulme 1979.

I like the 12" better for the extra lyrics and the additional production.

I'll go for the album version too - that delay effect on Ian's voice make's it, although the 12" version is ripper also CTB

Also went with the album version, but both versions are great. I was just happy to buy the 12" of SLC cause I could finally get a version of Atmosphere, on the US version anyway.

I prefer the album version by just a hair. However, the 12" version does seem more danceable, and it does have an extra stanza of Ian's lyrics so that's a big plus for it. Both versions sound great, though, so it's a tough call.

> Ian said this at the Russell Club (aka The Factory) on 13th July 1979. This is a great rendition of "She's Lost Control" but my favorite live version is at the Prince Of Wales Conference Centre on 02nd August 1979, it was even more violent and powerful.

This is the first Joy Division song I heard.It is very special for me. My favourite live performance is this : 790314 Altringcham, you can watch it on Joy Division,Substance Video 78-80.

so does everyone think she's lost control is a reference to epilepsy or is there a deeper meaning to it than that?

Well, it could be about Margaret Thatcher I suppose. Best version I ever heard was sung by me yesterday

Live takes - most of the mid-79 takes are powerful and really kick ass. I've never been as keen on the pissed-about-with 1980 version.

Originally posted by masaaki sakai so does everyone think she's lost control is a reference to epilepsy or is there a deeper meaning to it than that?

I remember reading (can't remember where tho'!) that Ian wrote the lyrics about an epileptic girl who used to come into the job centre where he worked. Eventually she stopped coming and he assumed she'd found a job. He later discovered that she'd had a severe fit and died.

My vote goes to the pissed about with 1980 version - I just love the changing rhythms of the syndrums at the end!

I think that the "She's Lost Controls" on UP is analogous to the unplugged, accoustic (fictional?) version of "Blue Monday" in the 24HPP film--both are primitive, somewhat pedestrian demos for the huge, towering, monolithic and innovative singles they would become.

I would hardly call the album version primitive...

I just can remember Steve rehearsing on the roof. God bless Martin Zero Hannet

Originally posted by Known Pleasures Live takes - most of the mid-79 takes are powerful and really kick ass. I've never been as keen on the pissed-about-with 1980 version.

Fully agree on the mid-79 takes. But what exactly do you mean with "pissed-about-with" ? Personally, I love the live takes from London 29/2 and Derby 19/4!

Originally posted by little boy lost > Originally posted by Known Pleasures Live takes - most of the mid-79 takes are powerful and really kick ass. I've never been as keen on the pissed-about-with 1980 version.

Fully agree on the mid-79 takes. But what exactly do you mean with "pissed-about-with" ? Personally, I love the live takes from London 29/2 and Derby 19/4!

Just the extra couple of vocal lines and keyboards at the end. To these ears, the keyboards coming in lose some of the intensity that the song had in a live context. Just out of curiosity, who would have been playing the keyboard ? Barney was riffing his heart out, Hooky was riffing a different riff, Steve was in floortom overdrive, Ian was flailing like a dervish. Who pressed the keys ?

It's only a guess, but maybe it was Ian doing the keyboards when he wasn't flailing like a dervish? He may have been in mid-flail a few times and forgotten to play it which is why it didn't always appear. Of course, I've got no evidence to back this up but the keyboard bit is very simple to play...much like Ian's guitar parts!

I think it was Ian too.I was observing 511 DVD and it´s so easy to play even a 3-year-old child would do that :D

I read somewhere that gillian played with joy division a few times. maybe it was her?

Or it could've been someone from one of the Factory support bands...Simon Topping played the synth at one of JD's Factory gigs so he could have done so at the Lyceum too? Mind you anyone walking onstage to play half a dozen notes on the synth just as (presumably) the lead singer 'dead fly's' offstage would probably feel a bit of a twat....

Originally posted by Philip Collins Or it could've been someone from one of the Factory support bands...Simon Topping played the synth at one of JD's Factory gigs so he could have done so at the Lyceum too? Mind you anyone walking onstage to play half a dozen notes on the synth just as (presumably) the lead singer 'dead fly's' offstage would probably feel a bit of a twat....

Originally posted by Philip Collins Or it could've been someone from one of the Factory support bands...Simon Topping played the synth at one of JD's Factory gigs so he could have done so at the Lyceum too? Mind you anyone walking onstage to play half a dozen notes on the synth just as (presumably) the lead singer 'dead fly's' offstage would probably feel a bit of a twat....

Having looked at HATYM again, in particular I Remember Nothing, the keyboard was a long way across to the side of the stage, virtually offstage. It's quite plausible that this was done deliberately to allow a 5th member to play on SLC - other songs would have been easy enough for Barney to do, as there is no lead guitar/keyboard overlap. We know Ian attempted guitar on Heart and Soul. There's no way on this earth that he would have played keyboards on She's Lost Control - by that stage of the song he had whipped himself up into a near fit state anyway.

I doubt that the HATYM video is a valid point of reference in this matter. On the October '79 tour they were the support band, and only few songs featured the synth (I Remember Nothing & LWTUA). By 1980, they had become headliners themselves, and the synth had move a lot more to the front in their sound, so I doubt that it would still have been relegated to the far end of the stage. But then again, what do I know... I've never seen them live.

I also cannot imagine SLC being played live without Ian going into his routine, but then again, I presume he had to stand still while he was on guitar duty, too, so... All the same, while I can picture him with a guitar, he must have struck an awkward figure behind a keyboard.

Somebody should write an in-depth book about the band's history fast, now that there are still people around who followed them closely while they were about (like the guy who put up the "sale of the century"... if only I had the time, I would bombard him with questions). There are so many questions left to be answered...

Originally posted by Known Pleasures > Originally posted by Philip Collins> Or it could've been someone from one of the Factory support bands...Simon Topping played the synth at one of JD's Factory gigs so he could have done so at the Lyceum too? Mind you anyone walking onstage to play half a dozen notes on the synth just as (presumably) the lead singer 'dead fly's' offstage would probably feel a bit of a twat....

Having looked at HATYM again, in particular I Remember Nothing, the keyboard was a long way across to the side of the stage, virtually offstage. It's quite plausible that this was done deliberately to allow a 5th member to play on SLC - other songs would have been easy enough for Barney to do, as there is no lead guitar/keyboard overlap. We know Ian attempted guitar on Heart and Soul. There's no way on this earth that he would have played keyboards on She's Lost Control - by that stage of the song he had whipped himself up into a near fit state anyway.

The position of the keyboard may have had something to do with JD being a support band that night. Certainly there's a picture from the Moonlight Club where it's much further in...tho' the Moonlight Club stage is, of course, a lot smaller than the Apollo.

Originally posted by Known Pleasures > Originally posted by Philip Collins> Or it could've been someone from one of the Factory support bands...Simon Topping played the synth at one of JD's Factory gigs so he could have done so at the Lyceum too? Mind you anyone walking onstage to play half a dozen notes on the synth just as (presumably) the lead singer 'dead fly's' offstage would probably feel a bit of a twat....

Having looked at HATYM again, in particular I Remember Nothing, the keyboard was a long way across to the side of the stage, virtually offstage. It's quite plausible that this was done deliberately to allow a 5th member to play on SLC - other songs would have been easy enough for Barney to do, as there is no lead guitar/keyboard overlap. We know Ian attempted guitar on Heart and Soul. There's no way on this earth that he would have played keyboards on She's Lost Control - by that stage of the song he had whipped himself up into a near fit state anyway. Ive just listened to the lyceum version of SLC and it sounds like Barney comes off guitar duties and plays the Arp as Ian takes over guitar duties,Ians strumming isnt as pronounced as Barneys.

I definately need to git me paws on some more of these tapes or CD's of these old performances...I am WAAAAAAY behind the power curve here!!!

12" by a hair btw...That's the gist!

Originally posted by Known Pleasures There's no way on this earth that he would have played keyboards on She's Lost Control - by that stage of the song he had whipped himself up into a near fit state anyway.

But on the Lycaum version, theres the extra bit of singing, Ian sounds calm, and all he would have to do is walk over and play the keyboard bit.

The guitar sounds the same throughout that version, so Barney dosn't put down his guitar, it would be too much of hassle anyway.

Maybe it was Rob!

in some concerts the keyboard notes enters after ian's voice

Both are fantastic, but the original one sounds stronger.

Originally posted by Sean Kant kino > Originally posted by Known Pleasures There's no way on this earth that he would have played keyboards on She's Lost Control - by that stage of the song he had whipped himself up into a near fit state anyway.

But on the Lycaum version, theres the extra bit of singing, Ian sounds calm, and all he would have to do is walk over and play the keyboard bit.

The guitar sounds the same throughout that version, so Barney dosn't put down his guitar, it would be too much of hassle anyway.

Sean, there's sounding calm and being calm. Trust me, there is no way on this earth that Ian would have been up for a bit of keyboard playing, however simple it was. At that stage in the song he had worked himself up to such an extent that nothing else was possible. I guess it's difficult to appreciate this from grainy video source. I'm pretty sure it was not one of the band members who played keyboards on SLC live.

Like the one in Finsbury Park 2002 roadie singing in World in Motion,why not a roadie or Sir.Terry Mason on the keyboards?

Come on Timbo! You saw them play SLC at Malvern! Surely 23 years' worth of lager can't induce memory loss?!

By the way Tim, I've got a very low gen copy of the Malvern gig which I can throw onto CD if you fancy. Give me a mail if you fancy it...

Originally posted by Atrocity Exhibit By the way Tim, I've got a very low gen copy of the Malvern gig which I can throw onto CD if you fancy. Give me a mail if you fancy it...

She's Lost Control 800405 Malvern Winter Gardens

There's no keyboards in this one.

I also observed in London Lyceum 29/02/80 that just after Ian gave up singing we can hear the keyboards notes.I agree with Benny, he couldn't stop his dead fly dance movements to play the keyboards.So,who was ?

Did it not accour to you that maybe he wasn't dancing (that much)?

its a very slow, calm version - its Ian playing the keyboards.

Originally posted by Sean Kant kino Did it not accour to you that maybe he wasn't dancing (that much)?its a very slow, calm version - its Ian playing the keyboards.

Horseshit. There was no calm anywhere near Ian Curtis on stage ever !

Originally posted by Atrocity Exhibit Come on Timbo! You saw them play SLC at Malvern! Surely 23 years' worth of lager can't induce memory loss?!

Not in the slightest. No keyboard in this version !

Sorry, my mistake. Just listened to it now. Just goes to show how erratic JD were when it came to live performance!

Originally posted by Known Pleasures > Originally posted by Sean Kant kino> Did it not accour to you that maybe he wasn't dancing (that much)?> > its a very slow, calm version - its Ian playing the keyboards.

Horseshit. There was no calm anywhere near Ian Curtis on stage ever !

what are you talking about?, Ian didn't go mad when he was singing..

Originally posted by Sean Kant kino > Originally posted by Known Pleasures > Originally posted by Sean Kant kino> Did it not accour to you that maybe he wasn't dancing (that much)?> > its a very slow, calm version - its Ian playing the keyboards.

Horseshit. There was no calm anywhere near Ian Curtis on stage ever !

It was a seething rather than a flailing when he was actually singing. No video will ever do it justice. Not what I'd call calm at all !

what are you talking about?, Ian didn't go mad when he was singing..

I'd say the album version is the best...JD (to me) always sounds best wihout the extra mixing an such; the mixes are fun to listen to, but if you do the headphone thing and listen to the original cuts they just seem better to the 2 ears I have anyways.