Heart & Soul side 4

Do you think that the live material on Heart & Soul is poor. I know that there was much better material available to choose from so who was responsible?

Miranda Sawyer.

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope Miranda Sawyer.

A Miranda le gusta que le dan candela por el culo!

I knew she would creep in to this thread. Of course she's been around since Warsaw

i suppose these songs were the best they could come up with that were not previously released (legally, of course), and were of listenable quality. there are some decent bootlegs, some atrocious ones, and the previously released live material, and i guess this is the best of what was left?

see below!

Originally posted by AgentWood i suppose these songs were the best they could come up with that were not previously released (legally, of course), and were of listenable quality. there are some decent bootlegs, some atrocious ones, and the previously released live material, and i guess this is the best of what was left?

NMC released Le Baines Douches after Heart & Soul came out, and the recordings and Eindhoven & Amsterdam are better still

The band didn't want the Amsterdam gig to be released. Wilson wanted to put it out in the NMC series but they wouldn't let him so he decided on the Paris show instead. However he didn't actually possess this so he first tried to track down a mixing desk tape of the complete gig from what he described as 'a mad French woman' and when it wasn't forthcoming he borrowed a tape of the 9 song radio broadcast...so that's why neither Paris nor Amsterdam are on the H&S live disk. Would've been nice if they'd issued the complete Eindhoven gig tho'...

I found both the live discs from H&S and Retro a big disappointment, for all the reasons listed above. Particularly Retro, as they'd managed to somehow make the "finished" version sound worse than the bootleg...

Also, and this is just a personal thing, I don't like live discs from several different sources. I'd rather just have one complete gig, like they did on Still.

They could have put out the High Wycombe 20/02/80 show - it's only 31 mins long and 8 tracks, but is as good an audio recording as you'll get from JD, and is also a rarity in that it was a good performance !

If you are really good I'll put it up in its entirety on Floyd's server later.

Originally posted by Known Pleasures They could have put out the High Wycombe 20/02/80 show - it's only 31 mins long and 8 tracks, but is as good an audio recording as you'll get from JD, and is also a rarity in that it was a good performance !If you are really good I'll put it up in its entirety on Floyd's server later.

Presumably they had access to the High Wycombe recording as it was taped by the same person that did the Lyceum and Bournemouth tracks that were included on Heart & Soul. I guess it's just because they wanted a mixture of Unknown Pleasures and Closer tracks that they went for the combination that they did...

Originally posted by Ricardo For those interested in this 1978 live rendition of "Leaders Of Men", I've uploaded it here. ;)

Yeah, it's quite an interesting recording that one, Ian sings a bit like Darth Vader. I've always wondered what he says at the start, before saying "it's called Leaders Of Men". Anyone got any ideas? It'd be great to hear the show in full, despite the sound quality being a few shades off pristine...

Originally posted by Philip Collins > Originally posted by Known Pleasures They could have put out the High Wycombe 20/02/80 show - it's only 31 mins long and 8 tracks, but is as good an audio recording as you'll get from JD, and is also a rarity in that it was a good performance !If you are really good I'll put it up in its entirety on Floyd's server later.

Presumably they had access to the High Wycombe recording as it was taped by the same person that did the Lyceum and Bournemouth tracks that were included on Heart & Soul. I guess it's just because they wanted a mixture of Unknown Pleasures and Closer tracks that they went for the combination that they did...

Yeah, the taper was a guy called Duncan Hayson, and he taped 6 JD gigs (and 2 soundchecks). Apparently he gave his master tapes to Rob Gretton after Ian died, and the plan was to release them in some form, but as we now know, this never really materialised. I remember his recollections were available on the In Between Days site, which used to be an absolute goldmine for JD and early NO live tape information and miscellany. Sadly it's now a shadow of its former self.

He starts off with "This is a slower one" then there's a mumbled bit followed by "it's called 'Leaders of Men'"

Originally posted by Solitude > Originally posted by AgentWood> i suppose these songs were the best they could come up with that were not previously released (legally, of course), and were of listenable quality. there are some decent bootlegs, some atrocious ones, and the previously released live material, and i guess this is the best of what was left?

NMC released Le Baines Douches after Heart & Soul came out, and the recordings and Eindhoven & Amsterdam are better still

i've read that le bains douches was released early on as a cassette as a soundboard/mixing desk recording by factory, although not 'officially' released until 2001. anyone confirm?

Originally posted by Philip Collins He starts off with "This is a slower one" then there's a mumbled bit followed by "it's called 'Leaders of Men'"

i have a strange feeling that came from the long lost electric circus recording

Originally posted by Ian Pillar > Originally posted by Philip Collins> He starts off with "This is a slower one" then there's a mumbled bit followed by "it's called 'Leaders of Men'"

i have a strange feeling that came from the long lost electric circus recording Hmm...maybe. I came across it on the internet quite some time ago labeled as Middlesborough 1978 also. Defintely not the best sounding, that's for sure. I suppose this was before he had developed his voice too much.

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope > Originally posted by Ian Pillar> > > > Originally posted by Philip Collins> > He starts off with "This is a slower one" then there's a mumbled bit followed by "it's called 'Leaders of Men'">

i have a strange feeling that came from the long lost electric circus recording Hmm...maybe. I came across it on the internet quite some time ago labeled as Middlesborough 1978 also. Defintely not the best sounding, that's for sure. I suppose this was before he had developed his voice too much.

Recorded before they had discovered Varispeed !

Thankyou Ricardo for the Leaders Of Men mp3, an interesting piece of Joy Division history, but what are they on? Mogodon?

Ian's voice is really so strange in this version.

Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart Ian's voice is really so strange in this version.

Recorded before they had discovered Varispeed ! That is what he actually sounded like in the early days. The sonorous baritone boom you know and love was all done by effects on the mixer. Sorry to shatter so many illusions.

apperently there is no bootleg of the electric circus gig but its bullshit i got a copy of the buzzcocks performance from the same night peter hook has a copy he just wont let it out as he has in the past with other bootlegs he is responsable for the original warsaw bootlegs and live stuff

Originally posted by Ian Pillar apperentlythere is no bootlegof the electric circus gig but its bullshiti got a copy of the buzzcocks performance from the same night peter hook has a copyhe just wont let it out as he hasin the past with other bootlegshe is responsablefor the original warsaw bootlegsand live stuff

Really? Where did you get that info from? I always thought it was the odd corrupt sound engineer. Lucky the Nashville soundboard tape's in circulation, that gig's a cracker. Pity the sound quality's pretty shite for a soundboard.

BTW, the Leaders Of Men recording doesn't come from the Electric Circus gig, as the two recordings (i.e. At A Later Date and LOM) sound nothing alike.

The Electric Circus tape was allegedly locked away somewhere, lost in the vaults of Virgin Records. The band claimed that they didn't know that they'd been recorded so maybe Hooky doesn't have a copy? Some of the lyrics in the Leaders of Men recording are different from any studio versions or later live versions so maybe it could come from some time in '77...or maybe Ian just forgot the words and made some up!

Did Warsaw just play At a Later Date at the Electric Circus that night ?

Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart Did Warsaw just play At a Later Date at the Electric Circus that night ?

No, we know that they were surprised at the track chosen, which infers that more than one were played for the record producers to be able to choose from.