Huntsman suggests a new topic: Crystal, Regret, or what?

Look...guys..and gals....Regret is the better song.

I just can't stand those brass stuff and background gospel-like vocals...jeez...sounds very 'Un-new order'...what happened to those much more minimal & disciplined tunes like Thieves, Silent Face, you know those early stuff...

BTW Regret do sound a little over-produced...I prefer the New Order version rather than the Stephen Hague's....you can just trust him to muck a song up and give a real dated feel to the song...I'm sure everyone can smell a Hague-produced tune from a mile away.....Has anyone heard JAMC's Hardest Walk remixed and 'gloss-ified' by Hague? ...How about the lost REM album supposedly given the 'Hague' treatment back in the 80's...Michael Stipe was too embarrassed to have it released, even then back in the 80's......

Regret gets my vote eventhough now I must admit 'Crystal' kinda grows on me...( there's lots of airplay in Australia )

The Kisser is a legendary track without doubt Buster... your fighting its cause like a bastard which deserves credit in itself. I fear Regret and Crystal have delved deeper into the emotions and as such, negates the inclusion of Kisser in this argument.

That said, if the Perfect song for you is the Kissing the Perfect Kisser... then that's fine. Seems a lot of folks ain't so sure...

One things certain for me - Regret is timeless... I can't hear Hague on this track at all... only Hooky's bass, Barney's voice, Gillians synth and Morris's drumming.

Perhaps they made Regret whilst Hague was sat taking a shit?

Not exactly, Hunsty. Perfect Kiss is not my fave NO song and it might not be perfect neither.

But can you think of another NO from the eighties that showcases more all that NO was about back then.

In the mean time, I could just pick up 'Lonesome Tonight' or 'Love Vigilantes' and say they better represent the emotional aspects of New Order.

When I first heard 'Love Vigilantes' in 85, I think it really changed my perception of music.

Then again, you might think 'Temptation' is the ultimate NO song.

I'm not sure about anything anymore now...

Old fan/new fan?? I remember when being what was contemptuously dubbed a "post-True Faith" fan was akin to being branded a leper. Just check out those old copies of "Last Orders" if you don't believe me!!

"Regret" or "Crystal"?? A dead heat, for me; the proverbial photo finish. Which says a lot for the heart-rending quality of the new boy, given the obvious nostalgiac allure of the former.

"Perfect Kiss" is an astonishing record, but, quite frankly, really did go on a bit live. Sorry.

M.

To go back to Regret, you have to remember the 1st time you heard it.

No news since 'World In Motion' and then, they come back with guitar riff, that bass and all those ingredients Hunsty rightfully mentionned.

As Barney could have said, 'like they had never been away'.

Originally posted by martin fradley Old fan/new fan?? I remember when being what was contemptuously dubbed a "post-True Faith" fan was akin to being branded a leper. Just check out those old copies of "Last Orders" if you don't believe me!!"Regret" or "Crystal"?? A dead heat, for me; the proverbial photo finish. Which says a lot for the heart-rending quality of the new boy, given the obvious nostalgiac allure of the former."Perfect Kiss" is an astonishing record, but, quite frankly, really did go on a bit live. Sorry.M.

I prefer French Kiss to Kitsch 'N Sync you'll all be damned if you people don't just agree 'The Village' is the best thing since 1963.

Originally posted by Geoff The Klump > Originally posted by Huntsman > Question Buster... are the Regrettable and Crystal Crisps songs both better than the Perfectionist Kissing Device? - I belive they are. And this is the angst of it all. Are these two songs the defining masterpieces of all NO time?

I don't know, Huntsy. I've always had a strange relationship to 'The Perfect Kiss'. I admire it, it has the best video of all times but, in the same time, I find it a little intimidating.

Let's say 'Perfect Kiss' encapsulates all the essence of NO in the eighties while 'Crystal' and Regret' would struggle for the nineties and the years 2000 representation.

What do you think ?

Geoffie, you're right about the Perfect Kiss. It summarises all the art of New Order in the 80's.

Now, regarding the last decade, I find that the lyrics for Regret are much better than those for Crystal, but I do prefer Crystal for its powerful music. IMHO, Regret is a bit weak from the musical point of view, although it might have been much better with a decent production.

Regret is not better than Crystal. And that's what I think, but I was never particularly fond of Regret in the first place. Never liked the lyrics, the song has, IMO, a too simple construction, nothing exciting. I don't mean that it's a bad song (it's a good song). But it's not better than Crystal.

Although, I might change my mind about this. Since I took an instant disliking to Regret when I heard it, but really love it now, and instantly loved Crystal when I heard it, I might get tired of it later. Hm

So what about Age of Consent versus Love Vigilantes? Comparable to Regret versus Crystal in being first track on their respective albums, although not in being singles. For me AOC is miles ahead of LV.

I still prefer Perfect Kiss to both Crystal and Regret though. :)

This is turning into a real good proper fist fight that's for sure.

The Perfect Kiss is a hallmark and life-changing record. Crystal and Regret take us deeper into the human psyche.

As for Age Consultant vs. Love Vibrations, I'd have to agree with Pastie... I loved Love Migration in equal measures, however, having heard them live... Age of Conseptual Consent blew LV out of the water. On top of which, it seems to have a lot more depth. That said, Love Viagras had a really unique lyric... but then so did Age of Restriction.

Fuck it... I'm as confused as Geoff now.

Pass me a sausage.

Originally posted by Ian Shimmin > Originally posted by martin fradley> Old fan/new fan?? I remember when being what was contemptuously dubbed a "post-True Faith" fan was akin to being branded a leper. Just check out those old copies of "Last Orders" if you don't believe me!!> > "Regret" or "Crystal"?? A dead heat, for me; the proverbial photo finish. Which says a lot for the heart-rending quality of the new boy, given the obvious nostalgiac allure of the former.> > "Perfect Kiss" is an astonishing record, but, quite frankly, really did go on a bit live. Sorry.> > M.

I prefer French Kiss to Kitsch 'N Sync you'll all be damned if you people don't just agree 'The Village' is the best thing since 1963.

Best thing since 1963 ? You realize 'The Village' is from 1983 do you ?

Age of Consent is better than LV I reckon.

How about Leave me alone vs Dream Attack?

Originally posted by Patrick So what about Age of Consent versus Love Vigilantes? Comparable to Regret versus Crystal in being first track on their respective albums, although not in being singles. For me AOC is miles ahead of LV.

Aaarrrrgggglll... AOC and LV are 2 of my favorite NO songs. But 'LV' is one of the very 1st NO songs I've heard besides 'Blue Monday' and that has to count.

It has a fabulous simplicity to it that could link it to... erm... 'Regret', true evidence.

But, then again, AOC is one of those songs that can cheer me up anytime...

Originally posted by Seb Briggs How about Leave me alone vs Dream Attack?

If I was in Blade Runner, and I was a really good robot that could last ages without nutrition or the need to ejaculate... I would have blown a fuse at the very thought of having to make the above decision before my forefathers.

That's like saying, which member of your cat family would you see die first in an horrific minor RTA ...

I know from my experience LV sounds fresh, glorious,etc. the first time after opening that classic tracing paper sleeve.... now 15 years later LV really sounds very-very 'tinny'...you know, like empty can noise...and far too clinical production....I think NO better 'digitally remaster' all their bloody albums. I've got cash here I've even bought Michael Jackson's remastered stuff...

So, Huntsy, are you ready to agree with me that anybody's top 5 NO songs would have to include at least 15 titles? I mean, what about Subculture and Shellshock, for example?

Originally posted by Huntsman > Originally posted by Seb Briggs> > How about Leave me alone vs Dream Attack?

If I was in Blade Runner, and I was a really good robot that could last ages without nutrition or the need to ejaculate... I would have blown a fuse at the very thought of having to make the above decision before my forefathers.

That's like saying, which member of your cat family would you see die first in an horrific minor RTA ...

Hey Huntsy..do you know that in Australia, RTA stands for 'ROAD & TRAFFIC AUTHORITY'...the governmental dept. that oversees these RTA.

Originally posted by Huntsman > Originally posted by Seb Briggs> > > > That's like saying, which member of your cat family would you see die first in an horrific minor RTA ...

Actually huntsy that wouldn't be that hard..like which is the shittest track on Get Ready..the tabby would have to go.

After that I'd definitely struggle. The Jaguar would probably be the last though

Oh I didn't quite read that right did I? I thought you said THE cat family. My Cat family...hmmmm....whichever one would leave the most inheritance...

Hmmm. That people are heralding Crystal and Regrets (sic, Jools Holland) as NO finest is sure signs of the youth amongst us. Beggin your pardon but, to me, fine choones as they are, Crystal and a few others on GRrrrr are sometimes too close to sounding like half baked hashes of your typical power-rock Oasis number, possibly bastardised with some other over-produced popular dribble from Robbie W.

Think about it; can you not almost visualize Liam echoeing the words "keep it comin" in some arena somewhere ? It's all done by the numbers a bit too much. The ONLY thing that keeps it (only just) a NO song are the lyrics(!!) I love Crystal but only becuase I know it's NO, and the bass bit in the middle is another reminder, though I have to force the images of hooky plodding about with his belly dragging on the floor out of mind while listening to it. Sorry Hooky.

Regret I have to say is not much better, though better it is in my books. What redeems Regret is that to me atleast it has NO written all over the first guitar chords offset by the violiny synth type gubbings. Oh, and it's the best show opener - ever.

Sorry to go against the grain. Regretful and Crustal are better than anything else out there, but NO's finest ? I think NOT. There are simply too many monumental, awe-inpiring and close-to-genius type moments elsewhere in their bag.

Where's the retrospective, the beauty, the melancholy, the moments that come and go; up, down, then up even higher? Where's the fuckin 'tood these days?

Less is more. Or maybe I'm just a crinkly :-(

'We make a livin out of writing love songs, and all the things in your life that go wrong'

Well, in the UK it stands for Road Traffic Accident so I don't know how that fits in with your future plans. I did hear that in ceratin parts of Germany RTA stood for Rats To Ants, which described a certain breed of rat that morhped into an ant after 2 years on the shelf like what a butterfly can do after turning into an earthworm from a sea shell.

Patty I never doubted your comment that a top 5 was impossible - as most peoples top 5 featured at least 15 tracks. I was attempting to keep away from what this post now is... which is your best track. I did try my best to keep it down to Crystal or Rebate... perhaps foolishly. Should have known this mighty can of worms would have sprang open.

Oh well. At least Buster has reaffirmed his pleasure at the Kissing Unit for one and all to see.

For what it's worth... I'm not sure whether Vanishing Point should be further discussed as a possible pretender to the ever growing thrown?

(I've seen all the hate of a woman too... blinding)

....

(Grow up Children Won't You Listen - marvellous).

Originally posted by Jaswinder Jassal Beggin your pardon but, to me, fine choones as they are, Crystal and a few others on GRrrrr are sometimes too close to sounding like half baked hashes of your typical power-rock Oasis number, possibly bastardised with some other over-produced popular dribble from Robbie W. Less is more. Or maybe I'm just a crinkly :-('We make a livin out of writing love songs,and all the things in your life that go wrong'

Comparing Crystal to Robbie F'king Williams...Huntsy are you listening?

Oh, absolutely, Huntsy, Vintage Port would be one of the 15 in my top 5. By the way, H, you need to realize I have this near fatal weakness for lively tunes. Probably explains my otherwise incomprehensible liking for the Innerspring Mattresses.

I think Jawbreakers comments have some merit... but 'half-baked Oasis re-hashes' seems to go a little too far off the boil. Getting Things Ready surely sees the band return to their rootsy side circa Lowest Life and Brothermouse? - Robert Williams is nothing short of blasphemy... it is a true blasphemous rumour.

I think Robbie by-product of waste Williams is about as opposite to NO as you can get... well, shove Michael Bolton in that mix and you know where I'm coming from.

Huntsy, speaking of RW, I feel a confession erupting. In prior times I acquired several Take That CD's.

Better than RW. Back for Good was a classic pop tune with genuine emotional depth. Not sure about Take That and Party though.

Well, it's been a while since I listened to them. They didn't make much of an impression in the U.S. I remember a video involving a boxing ring and being very unhappy that the mix on the CD was not the same as in the video.

I fear if you dig out those mostly forgettable tunes you'll quickly throw them into the Pacific. Whilst at University all of the lasses enjoyed Take That so you couldn't help but listen to the tossers. A couple of years later and each song sounds like rabbit shit being swept up in a yard dominated by slim tortoise leftovers.