Huntsman suggests a new topic: Crystal, Regret, or what?

At Huntsy's suggestion, since crisps on GR was too long, how does Crystal overcome abysmal lyrics to become what may be GR's greatest effort to date? Alternatively, do Regret's moving lyrics ultimately prevail?

H, obviously feel free to correct me.

I think Regret is the better song because of the bass riffs and lyrics throughout. I just can't bring myself to love the honey/money lyrics and the off key "..to the core" on Crystal.

Well, yes, the lyrics on Crystal are terrible, that is agreed. But the sound! Where are you, H, when I need you? This topic was your idea!

Don't get me wrong... i love crystal, i just think it could be improved. Regret on the other hand is perfection itself. I honestly can't think of anything wrong with it!

Well, Major, I've already offended Huntsy by saying bad things about Regret, but one reaction I have is that it's almost TOO perfect; it's almost unnaturally perfect.

Me and the Pats have had many long and hardened discussions around the Crystal vs. Regret subject. Personally, I believe they are both contenders for the ultimate top 10 of New Order all time greatest songs... off any album or any single release.

What would be good to establish, is whether anyone thinks along similar lines.

Do you: a) think that Patty has a point - that Crystal's unique sound tops Regret... is it BETTER? b) is Crystal too eagerly banted as one of the GREAT New Order moments? - pailing in comparison to the legendary and long-standing Regret? c) Believe that NEITHER song equates to NO's finest moments?

A serious discussion it must be said... and one that needs much input.

To the Orderline... what says you?

I often think its the fact that New Order don't make perfect records that attracts me to them, if you see what i mean. They don't sound over-produced and polished.

In the PCL, Low Life, Brotherhood days they certainly weren't over-produced. One might make the argument that Crystal has got quite a bit of production.

Originally posted by Huntsman Me and the Pats have had many long and hardened discussions around the Crystal vs. Regret subject. Personally, I believe they are both contenders for the ultimate top 10 of New Order all time greatest songs... off any album or any single release.What would be good to establish, is whether anyone thinks along similar lines.Do you:a) think that Patty has a point - that Crystal's unique sound tops Regret... is it BETTER?b) is Crystal too eagerly banted as one of the GREAT New Order moments? - pailing in comparison to the legendary and long-standing Regret?c) Believe that NEITHER song equates to NO's finest moments?A serious discussion it must be said... and one that needs much input.To the Orderline... what says you?

Crystal & Regret are both easily 2 of New Order's greatest songs (btw I take it we mean the superior album version). Regret's probably my favourite but it's close. Lyrics are obviously better but that's irrelevant in my book. Crystal has a lot more going on and is probably more 'thrilling' but Regret is just more, well beautiful. That bass solo in the middle of Regret is one of thee great New Order moments.

So, in summary, Regret is better but Crystal is nonetheless one of the best New Order songs, ever.

Let's take a tangent here...

We know NO have had, for a long time, a tradition of singles not appearing on albums.

In that perspective, now that a single can herald a brand new album, 'Regret' and 'Crystal' are absolutely brilliant comeback singles.

On 'Republic' as on 'Get Ready', you couldn't have dreamed of a better statement : look at that sound ! They're back !

I like both but I prefer 'Regret' which, to me, is absolute perfection.

Crystal is better for me. Not all the lyrics on Crystal are terrible. I like the 'We're like Crystal...' particuarly. Regret is great-just slightly over produced for me.

They sounded perfect back to back live.

Well Patty it seems the Huntsman's earlier predictions and waffling are being echoed by the Orderline faithful.

Regret seems to be nudging ahead here.

Zico it could be argued that the bass in Crystal is 'as good' as the bass (bit in the middle) as Regret? - Getting down to brass tacks here if we were to compare each element then Crystal's drums are also, quite possibly, ever so slightly better and more original than the Regret drums?

Personally, as stated, Regret is marginally better. The melodic flow of the voice (Barney's) is quite stunning and the words are sensational. Out of all of the Order's songs THIS song makes me go to jelly... and I'm not talking for my toast.

'Keep it Coming.'

I just bumped into Jools Holland during my lunch. Honestly. He really is a short arsed piece of shit.

Originally posted by Seb Briggs Crystal is better for me. Not all the lyrics on Crystal are terrible. I like the 'We're like Crystal...' particuarly. Regret is great-just slightly over produced for me.They sounded perfect back to back live.

Well there's a Crystal vote. I'm starting to wonder whether this is a new fan/old fan thing. Klumpy, me, Zico all preferring Regret (just) whilst Sebbsy and Patty in favour of Crystal. MMMmmmmm....

Sebb you actually stating that Regret is more produced than Crystal?

I would say so actually Huntsy. Maybe it's more the production style of Hague compared to Osbourne-Regret comes over more 'poppy' to me

Don't know about the old fan/new fan thing (after all, I've only been a fan for 16 years... )

What I know is that, no matter the song, I will always prefer the sensitive one to the hard edge one. Hence my love for 'Run Wild'.

That's if I have to compare cos I really love 'Crystal'...

Huntsy, are you telling me I'm a new fan? Or are you saying you are? I have been a NO fan for at least 15 years; I know that's hard for a 12-year old, but trust me.

Oopps... sos about that, I'm never one for bringing the new fan/old fan debate up for use to wage internal war... all that 'I'm better because I saw them in 1982 at the Crispy Ballroom with the Sexual Pistol Shooters' is not my game. It just appeared that the newer humans seemed to enjoy Crystal more... and thought it was evidence that the older gentleman still prefered his blondes in the shape of a Regrettable Circumstance.

That, evidently, is not the case... apologies for any misinterpretation. And Patty... you are indeed a long standing fan. However, how would I know this as you last told me you were 12 only a few weeks ago?!

• perhaps the Huntsman's mind detected more knowledge and pearly wisdom far too eccentric for a 12 year old small child.

Back to business...

can we narrow this topic down (opposite to how a post or thread normally goes).

If we are 'all' in agreement that Crystal and Regret are quite possibly 2 of New Order's most impressive monumental sound structures to date... WHICH IS THE BETTER!?

And Klumpy, I'm whole-heartedly with you on the heartfelt New Order song. I dearly love the heartstring numbers (I thought Patty did until he said he wasn't keen on Regret). ;)

Well, as far as monumental sound structures go, it has to be 'Crystal', I guess...

The best of all times bing 'The Perfect Kiss'.

Originally posted by Seb Briggs I would say so actually Huntsy. Maybe it's more the production style of Hague compared to Osbourne-Regret comes over more 'poppy' to me

HHmmm. For me, Regret isn't a part of Republic. It sounds like Regret was put on another album of average tickets. Just imagine an album to complement Regret? - oh, that's Getting Things Ready. Could we swap Slow Death Jawbreaker, and maybe Rocking the Shithouses with Regrettable Noise Buster and, mmmmm, World.. the Price of Eggs (provided they completely re-did it with proper instruments in place of the comic childrens toys Hague used with supplied double 'AA' batteries).

Well, I also think 'Crystal' has the most brilliant guitar attack in NO history. Don't you think ?

Originally posted by Geoff The Klump Don't know about the old fan/new fan thing (after all, I've only been a fan for 16 years... )

Being the tender age of 21, i have only been a fan for 7 years.

Question Buster... are the Regrettable and Crystal Crisps songs both better than the Perfectionist Kissing Device? - I belive they are. And this is the angst of it all. Are these two songs the defining masterpieces of all NO time?

Originally posted by Huntsman Question Buster... are the Regrettable and Crystal Crisps songs both better than the Perfectionist Kissing Device? - I belive they are. And this is the angst of it all. Are these two songs the defining masterpieces of all NO time?

I don't know, Huntsy. I've always had a strange relationship to 'The Perfect Kiss'. I admire it, it has the best video of all times but, in the same time, I find it a little intimidating.

Let's say 'Perfect Kiss' encapsulates all the essence of NO in the eighties while 'Crystal' and Regret' would struggle for the nineties and the years 2000 representation.

What do you think ?

Crystal and Regret and miles clear of Perfect kiss in my opinion. Klumpy's right..that 'guitar attack' is right up their with the best segments of song NO have ever done. Actually thats not a bad topic in itself...

If Regret had been on GR I think it would have sounded a bit darker...a bit like Primitive Notion..the 2nd best song on GR

Also, you have to feel a bit nostalgic about The Perfect Kiss : you know NO will never do such songs again.

But as we said quite a few times previously, that's fair enough if they're not as inventive as in the 80's as they've done their fair lot of invention back in those days.

You bring uo an interesting matter here, Nic.

Personally, what I like with come back singles in general, when they're good, is how they somehow have 2 lives.

A 1st one as a stand alone track, a second one as part of the album. It's a totally new dynamic.