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England V Macedonia

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Deserves its own thread really.

Never seen so much shit in my life.

Bear in mind, this was Macedonia, who are the only team to be beaten by Andorra in a competetive international. And they totally outplayed us.

Again, there was no organisation at set pieces, either when we were attacking or defending.

We gave the ball away cheaply far too many times.

Jermaine Defoe yet again proved to be completely useless when he came on.

Gerrard, who was supposed to play on the right, spent most of the time trying to clear up the mess that McClaren Jr, sorry Stewart Downing was making on the left.

We were exposed defensively on numerous occasions, this being a team of journeymen.

Bascially, it was the biggest crunk of shit i have seen in a good while. it was of course, sadly predictable, as anyone who watched the previous Macedonia game and the 2nd half against Greece would have noticed.

McClaren is clearly out of his depth, and doesnt have a clue what to do. As demonstrated by the events of the last week, it is clear the players dont respect him, after a mere three games in charge. And with performances like this, how long before the idiot press turns on him. What he needs to do is stop going on all these silly PR courses and actually spend time working out what is best for the England national team.

We will most likely get beat on Wednesday and will struggle to qualify from what is easily the easiest qualifying group.

And remember, Scotland can beat France at home. Northern Ireland can beat Spain at home. So why, with much better players, do England somehow fail to beat Macedonia at home?

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Uncle Liam wrote: Deserves its own thread really.

Never seen so much shit in my life.

Bear in mind, this was Macedonia, who are the only team to be beaten by Andorra in a competetive international. And they totally outplayed us.

Again, there was no organisation at set pieces, either when we were attacking or defending.

We gave the ball away cheaply far too many times.

Jermaine Defoe yet again proved to be completely useless when he came on.

Gerrard, who was supposed to play on the right, spent most of the time trying to clear up the mess that McClaren Jr, sorry Stewart Downing was making on the left.

We were exposed defensively on numerous occasions, this being a team of journeymen.

Bascially, it was the biggest crunk of shit i have seen in a good while. it was of course, sadly predictable, as anyone who watched the previous Macedonia game and the 2nd half against Greece would have noticed.

McClaren is clearly out of his depth, and doesnt have a clue what to do. As demonstrated by the events of the last week, it is clear the players dont respect him, after a mere three games in charge. And with performances like this, how long before the idiot press turns on him. What he needs to do is stop going on all these silly PR courses and actually spend time working out what is best for the England national team.

We will most likely get beat on Wednesday and will struggle to qualify from what is easily the easiest qualifying group.

And remember, Scotland can beat France at home. Northern Ireland can beat Spain at home. So why, with much better players, do England somehow fail to beat Macedonia at home?

:sleep:

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Your just annoyed because The mighty hatters tanked your lot today :nod:

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If Macedonia had been more clinical they could of won comfortably.

Only Crouch, Cole and maybe Gerrard played decently, everyone else were pretty poor. Lampard, Downing, Carrick, King were all wastes of space.

As for Mclaren, how come he didn't try to change things when we were clearly playing shit? SWP brightened things up a bit when he came on, but why bring on Defoe-he's SHIT!:scratch:

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Uncle Liam wrote: Your just annoyed because The mighty hatters tanked your lot today :nod:

:laugh:

Just smashed!

But, England, always really shit, don't you think? Same old story, whatever manager, although I hear what you are saying, mostly.

:thumb:

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Only plus point was having time to do the crossword...

Snorri xxx

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The thing is though, despite what the likes of Ian Wright will tell, we're not always really shit.

Under Sven, we didnt win a total of FIVE qualifiers. In what was pretty much 3 qualifying campaigns, thats pretty good going. Apart from the first four minutes today, we never even looked like winning. Frankly, we were lucky to draw.

Like i said, its a good thing we've got a relatively easy group. And why have we got an easy group? Very simple, our qualification record under Sven. Back in the dark days under Keegan, Hoddle, Taylor etc, it was touch and go if we'd qualify. Now we just expect to qualify for major tournaments! Listen to what Hansen said before kick off today.

The days of facing a play off against Scotland (which we lost the 2nd leg!) are gone. Or the day when we need a team to slip up away at Poland and we need to score x goals are gone, because we're seeded and now get easier groups.

But Sven, he was foreign, so therefore bad. But the man who spent millions at Middlesborough and finished 15th his last season there, can do better. PASSION~! So they say. Look, he's shouting and pointing lots. :skeptic:

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Uncle Liam wrote:

But Sven, he was foreign, so therefore bad. But the man who spent millions at Middlesborough and finished 15th his last season there, can do better. PASSION~! So they say. Look, he's shouting and pointing lots. :skeptic:

Sven was shit-the fact is he had players like Rooney, Gerrard, Owen, Terry etc to save his arse (well, most of the time). When it came down to the crunch, he was tactically lacking.

It'll be exactly the same for Mclaren, except that when he's bombed out of the job El Tel might take over!:thumb: Rock and fuckin roll!!!

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Exactly the same for McClaren? Clearly you didnt see the match day programme from the Greece game, and I quote Steve McClaren from the front cover:

It's going to be completely different!

And it will be different. We will struggle to qualify for major tournaments. If, and its a big if, we qualify, we'll get bombed out in the first round because we'll come up against genuniely good teams. Remember, in the Euros, you cant get by by defeating crap teams in the first round. Every team is at least well organised and has some threat up front. And, you are guaranteed to be put in a group with at least one team of genuine quality who has a realistic chance of winning the tournament.

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So is Big Ron your solution for all this, then, Liam?

Snorri xxx

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Papa Bendi wrote: If Macedonia had been more clinical they could of won comfortably.

Only Crouch, Cole and maybe Gerrard played decently, everyone else were pretty poor. Lampard, Downing, Carrick, King were all wastes of space.

As for Mclaren, how come he didn't try to change things when we were clearly playing shit? SWP brightened things up a bit when he came on, but why bring on Defoe-he's SHIT!:scratch:

Cole played decently? He was shit! Only Ledley King had a decent game. Wright-Phillips looked sharper than many people expected, but apart from that they were total dross from start to finish. Union man Gary Neville should hand his match fee back after that performance, and Gerrard suffered badly from the "Tim's put money on him to score the first goal" syndrome. Downing's no more an international standard player than I am.

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Hmm...

Dont think we are giving enough credit to Macedonia.

Weren't they two nil up at half time in that game in Southampton four years ago?

Also I believe they were one nil up at half time in the return fixture in Skopje then too; when it has been alleged they conspired to play badly in the second half, according to one or two shady Macedonians.

And besides.. We had an off day; something anyone who's watched England for the last twenty years will be entirely used to.

As for Maclaren, he's still not conceded a goal yet, and I'm delighted he's still refusing to consider Beckham getting back in the team. I still think the Sven/Beckham alliance a major factor for our dismal negative WC performances. At least the team is looking a lot less static now, excepting today's display, but this maybe more down to the Venables effect than we will ever know.

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With Gerrard suspended for the Croatia game and Hargreaves and Lennon crocked, should McClaren call up Beckham?

Still think McClaren made a big mistake dropping Beckham and don't think he's man enough to change his mind before it's too late!

Never watched the game today decided to watch Scotland v France at least their coaches pick the best players available for the squads.

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duroc wrote: With Gerrard suspended for the Croatia game and Hargreaves and Lennon crocked, should McClaren call up Beckham?

Still think McClaren made a big mistake dropping Beckham and don't think he's man enough to change his mind before it's too late!

Never watched the game today decided to watch Scotland v France at least their coaches pick the best players available for the squads.

Nope DB is not in the queue. He may be proven, because he was an automatic choice some way beyond his sell-by date. But thats the main point; he's doesnt do a lot apart from dead ball kicks. Real are even keeping him out.

I think its time to properly blood a new midfielder such as Scott Parker, and use Wright-Phillips (who looked great today in his brief appearance) and continue with Michael Carrick.

Maclaren needs to stay firm, and not pick him unless he shows outstanding form for his club. Bit difficult when you cant get a game.:scratch:

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Parker, maybe, but your man Wright Phillips can't get a game, for his club, either. Would he last a full 90 mins? Still leaves a dilema as to who to replace him with if he doesn't last.:shrug:

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not a good display by the England and deserved feck all out of it.. fair result..

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I went to the match yesterday - not worth the £42 it cost me. Neville missed an easy chance, Lampard should have scored. The only bright thing was SWP coming on. Thats all I can be bothered to say really

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Burt Reynolds wrote: Hmm...

Dont think we are giving enough credit to Macedonia.

Weren't they two nil up at half time in that game in Southampton four years ago?

Also I believe they were one nil up at half time in the return fixture in Skopje then too; when it has been alleged they conspired to play badly in the second half, according to one or two shady Macedonians.

And besides.. We had an off day; something anyone who's watched England for the last twenty years will be entirely used to.

As for Maclaren, he's still not conceded a goal yet, and I'm delighted he's still refusing to consider Beckham getting back in the team. I still think the Sven/Beckham alliance a major factor for our dismal negative WC performances. At least the team is looking a lot less static now, excepting today's display, but this maybe more down to the Venables effect than we will ever know.

Credit to Macedonia? They LOST to Andorra.

We've now had an off day in the last 3 and a half games under McClaren. Quite frankly, its not good enough. And you know what, its not in the least bit surprising.

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Uncle Liam wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote: Hmm...

Dont think we are giving enough credit to Macedonia.

Weren't they two nil up at half time in that game in Southampton four years ago?

Also I believe they were one nil up at half time in the return fixture in Skopje then too; when it has been alleged they conspired to play badly in the second half, according to one or two shady Macedonians.

And besides.. We had an off day; something anyone who's watched England for the last twenty years will be entirely used to.

As for Maclaren, he's still not conceded a goal yet, and I'm delighted he's still refusing to consider Beckham getting back in the team. I still think the Sven/Beckham alliance a major factor for our dismal negative WC performances. At least the team is looking a lot less static now, excepting today's display, but this maybe more down to the Venables effect than we will ever know.

Credit to Macedonia? They LOST to Andorra.

We've now had an off day in the last 3 and a half games under McClaren. Quite frankly, its not good enough. And you know what, its not in the least bit surprising.

Very fucking entertaining though :lol:

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in all fairness though England are still undfeated under Mclaren and have they conceded a goal? i'm not too sure but i don't think they have.

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If you stop and think about it,England have not improved for ten years or so.We have'nt loked like winning anything closely resembling silverware.


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If you stop and think about it,England have not improved for ten years or so.We have'nt looked like winning anything closely resembling silverware.

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Sorry but as the song goes...."If Downing plays for England so can I, if Downing plays for England so can I.....":nod:

Look lost without Hargreaves and you wouldn't have said that a year ago. Well done to the Jockstraps though :clap:

And for Eire, Steve Staunton :thumbdown:

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Why don´t you try with this team ???

Peter Shilton, Paul Parker, Stuart Pearce, Des Walker, Mark Wright, Steve McMahon. Platt, Paul Gascoigne, John Barnes. Gary Lineker, Steve Bull.

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fuck England

how bad is Dirk Kuyts injury?

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Michael Carrick- what they said:

'Supposed to be playing the holding role in midfield in the absence of the injured Owen Hargreaves. But he failed to give any protection to his defence and hardly made a tackle all match. England cannot afford him to be so off the pace again in Zagreb' - The Sun.

'Without him it is hard to fathom what Michael Carrick brings. He is, without question, a graceful footballer but he does not seem to be an international-class tackler or an organiser and, along with his Ecuador cameo, this is now the second high-profile match in which he has failed to make an impression' - The Independent.

'Even Michael Carrick, preferred to Scott Parker for the holding role normally occupied by Owen Hargreaves for his ability to deliver the killer balls, succumbed to this epidemic of an inability to make a simple pass' - The Sunday Telegraph.

'None is thoroughly convincing and nor is the idea of persevering with Michael Carrick in the holding role...What we were not sure about in only his second competitive start was his ability to impose himself, particularly under pressure. He started well enough but as the size of the challenge grew, he shrunk' - The Times.

'We're stuck in a cul de sac having accused Owen Hargreaves of being Sven-Goran Eriksson's love-child in May so we've got to keep up the pretence that Michael Carrick is football's equivalent of the second coming and that he actually produces something of note even though he can't even tackle. So, before asking Ian Wright whether Shaun Wright-Phillips should be in the England team, we are going to fawn over Carrick, including a clip at half-time showing him with not one but both arms in the air, apparently asking for the ball, and just hope that none of our viewers will spot that he is actually hiding behind a Macedonia player' - Yours helpfully, the BBC Punditry Team.

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hope we lose on Wed.

Venables??? :nonono:

thank fuck Stevies out.

If Ledley King gets dropped, its a disgrace.

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I dont hope we lose. I just hope McClaren gets sacked.

Of course, I dont expect us to win.

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Uncle Liam wrote: I dont hope we lose. I just hope McClaren gets sacked.

Of course, I dont expect us to win.

The Croats haven't lost a proper home game for 12 years.

Stuart Downing is useless. He can't get past anyone. He's weak. No muscle. He's not quite in the Nicky "Worst Winger in the World" Summerbee mould yet, but he's getting there. An embarassment to the Lions.

Man Yoo fans will soon find out, if they don't know it already, that Carrick just isn't good enough.

But football being the funny old game that it is, we'll probably scrape a win.

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i wasn`t suprised,the formation is shite,mcclaren is a wanker,and as usual the papers did a great job of bigging them up for a fall. rooney is about to explode? yeah right!

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Mclaren is an arrogant wanker and should stick to shagging his mistress (if the rumours are true), is adultery a prerequisite to be England boss? Wonder if he'll play his lovechild again tomorrow?

Still at least Martin O'Neill (walks on water) wasn't offered the job :D

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Aye. Good job O'Neill didnt get the job.

With of track record of being successful every place he has managed he has been means that he is vaslty unsuited for the england job.

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And now King's injured, so it's back to Rio the poser or a selection headache for Mac the bottler!

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Why McClaren is the England Manager

Of course, doesnt demand better passing, better defending, and generally better football. Because, after all, Passion~! wins tournament.

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:sleep:

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England: Exploding the Myth. Courtesy of football 365

Myth: England have 'world-class' players.

Reality:They have a few good players who only are only very occasionally world-class. The rest are just average at international level. It's self-evident. We almost never play well against any side other than a minnow like Jamaica or Andorra.

Myth: England play 4-4-2 best, it's what they know.

Reality: England players are not flexible enough to play any other system. But 4-4-2 makes them flat and predictable. Sides know how to play us. We have no guile, no creativity, no alternatives. If we don't score early, we soon start kicking 40-yard balls from the half-way line up to someone on the edge of the box who then fights for it, more often than not loses it and we cede possession again.

Myth: Michael Carrick is a creative midfielder capable of defence-splitting passes.

Reality: He's a midfielder, he can pass it; most players can pass it. That's it.

Myth: English football has benefited from the massive influx of overseas talent at top clubs. It's made English players more skilful.

Reality: If that's true, why are they so poor then? You only learn from the best, not from the legions of journeymen and never-be-better-than-average players that are more typical. Show me one current England player who has the skill of Beardsley or Gascoigne or Waddle.

Myth: Despite all the overseas players, good English talent will still come through.

Reality: There is no competition for England places because too few are of a high-enough standard. It's self-evident that we have a shallow pool of talent to choose from, therefore it simply can't be true unless we believe that England's children are just innately worse at football than nations with much smaller populations like Holland. We have almost no strength in depth in any position. We have to play players who can't even get regular league football like Defoe, SWP and Crouch. A few injuries decimates the squad. We can never really know who was discouraged by lack of opportunity at their local club. We can never quantify how great a youth team player could have been if given the chance to grow and develop in the first team.

Myth: We had loads of English players in the 70s and 80s and were still rubbish and didn't win anything.

Reality: In those days we were tactically unsophisticated, and arrogantly thought we could just assert our way of playing to beat sides that were better organised and far more skilful and far fitter. We couldn't; it was a delusion. It wasn't just the players, it was everything else. But remember, the only success in World Cups has come when the league was almost entirely UK-based in 1966 and 1990. Even in 1996 this was still largely the case.

Myth: If you need a strong domestic league with a lot of local players in, how come Brazil are so successful with players who all play abroad?

Reality: Brazil are not actually that good anymore but their success has come from a domestic football culture which produces and encourages talent and which then exports that talent to European clubs. England's problem is not that English players all have to go abroad to get a game, it's that not enough of them are encouraged or able to play in the highest domestic league in the first place.

Myth: Sven's negative tactics and lack of English passion made the Golden Generation fail at the World Cup.

Reality: Sven actually over-achieved with a small palette of good players available to him. Passion in a manager proves nothing and is a useless, blunt tool unless the players are good enough.

Myth: Why can't England players play well for their country? They play at the highest level for their clubs.

Reality: They only sometimes exceptionally play well for their clubs, and those times mask the other times when they're anonymous. No players who took the field against Macedonia had played well or at all recently, except Crouch but even he can't command a regular place for Liverpool. This myth means players are over-rated by fans and media and by themselves.

Myth: We'll still qualify for Euro 2008. This was just a blip.

Reality: It's far from guaranteed. Failing to beat sides like Macedonia that are well-organised, well-motivated, good on the ball and very fit, even if we don't lose, could be our downfall.

Far from being a blip, this could be the start of a prolonged period of failure as we see the consequences of ten years of top clubs buying in overseas talent rather than nurturing their own. Remember, all of the current England squad over 24 years old are products of youth policies set up before the Premiership was choked with non-British players.

Myth: At least we're still better than Scotland.

Reality: Maybe, but could we have beaten France on Saturday, even with Boumsong in defence? Scotland realised a couple of years ago, partly because of financial restraints, that the future was in cultivating local talent not in buying it in. Already, they're seeing the benefit of that as the top clubs now have more Scottish lads on the books than at any time in recent years.

Myth: We don't care about England, we only really care about club football.

Reality: We only say that as a defence mechanism because England can be so depressing. When England play well and win, the nation rejoices. Almost all of us care passionately, more passionately than the players who, after years of being pampered and receiving rewards unrelated to actual achievement, live insulated lives and though they protest otherwise, tend to play for their own personal reputation, rather than play as a unified team

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f365 is awesome

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