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What a horrible sight New Orleans is at the minute, I hope anyone from thereabouts is safe and well.
The BBC are reporting there is no relief or aid in evidence, and that people are being left to their own devices and starvation.
How can this happen in such a wealthy nation with such HUGE military resources?
I only scan read the article (TBH I only heard what was happening TODAY, I've had my head up my arse post house move).
But am I to believe the whole fookin US army is in Iraq? You really gotta wonder what'll happen if a really dangerous country were to be agressive towards the US, if it takes ALL of the army to suppress and control a tiny battered nation like Iraq.
Surely, even if the Govt are useles, the ordinary people of the nearby states will help out?
Was quite shaken to see a Policeman in tears because he'd been running around helping as much as he could, but had no idea if his own family were alive.
I wish I could help, but I'm rather a long way away. it's certain that if something is not done really soon, it's going to get a lot worse very quick.
i just heard an interview via cellphone with a man who is in the new orleans convention center. he pleaded with the government NOT to send the national guard in yet because there were too many armed people inside the center and gathering in lines outside. he said the people outside are wandering around like zombies and he's terrified what they're going to do after dark, as they're armed. his suggestion was to send in people with bullhorns to tell people not to shoot and to put their guns down, because if the national guard comes in right now it will be nothing more than a shootout.
also, he said that they've started piling the bodies in one of the corners of the convention center because they don't know what to do with them.
it's like fucking 28 days later.
I'm gobsmacked, I heard a brief snippet of something on ITN from a brit touist in the superdome(?), talking about all sorts of horrible things including child rape!!!
WTF?
I mean, even accepting y'all managed to elect the Dufus's Dufus to the highest office in the land, and that he wont do jack cos he's sent the army to get oil, and given the rest of the tax money to business....but OMG, how quickly does US society fall apart? Then again they do say that civilization, any civilazation, is only 3 square meals away from anarchy.
This is like some horror story you used to hear about strange tinpot commie republics.
FFS Dubya, stop killing other people and save your own you cunt! Sort of proves once and for all that the "war on terror" has nothing whatsoever to do with protecting or ensuring the quality of life for the people of the USA.
Public opinion in the area is obviously not really pro bush just now, but I have no impression of what the general mood in the country is. Are people pissed that nowt's happening? Did they just accept it when he said he'd launched the largest relief effort in US history? Surely by now civillian and charitable groups have seen that nothing's being done and will step in themselves. There MUST be FEMA evacuation camps nearby with food stocks ( unless,like the tinfoil hat brigade keep saying, they're really concentration camps waiting on marshall law to fill them up with ppl who don;t agree with bush).
I'm basically just confused, every disaster that's struck the US has been met with an equal force of human will and resourcefulness, but now, in a new millenium, it's "fuck it, they're a bunch of weirdos who know french, let em die"
EDIT: for the ultimate 28 days later/the stand/omega man feel.....see how they're dealing with fatalities....too many to count, so houses with bodies in them get a red circle with a cross on the door and they move on to the next. OMG....it's london circa 1665/6..."bring out your dead"
Steve Campbell wrote: I'm gobsmacked, I heard a brief snippet of something on ITN from a brit touist in the superdome(?), talking about all sorts of horrible things including child rape!!!
WTF?
I mean, even accepting y'all managed to elect the Dufus's Dufus to the highest office in the land, and that he wont do jack cos he's sent the army to get oil, and given the rest of the tax money to business....but OMG, how quickly does US society fall apart? Then again they do say that civilization, any civilazation, is only 3 square meals away from anarchy.
It would probably be most humane-- for us, for the victims, and for the worst of the worst-- to march a few of these dregs of humanity before a firing squad.
FFS Dubya, stop killing other people and save your own you cunt! Sort of proves once and for all that the "war on terror" has nothing whatsoever to do with protecting or ensuring the quality of life for the people of the USA.
I suspect he's as dazed as he was when 9/11 hit. Probably got caught reading Shagging My Pet Goat on this one as well.
Whatever, George. Why don't you just go back to reading your little picture book now, and let us grown-ups handle the clean-up, OK? That's a good boy, George.
even thou news reports do not really say this... but a majority of the people being effected the worst in the New Orleans area are poor blacks, old time poor neighborhoods, people who could not afford or were scared to leave their homes... these people distrust the local police and officials, and New Orleans historically has the reputation for having some of the most corrupt/ low quality police and local gov't ... this is all a bad situation and most of these people probably see little hope
as for Bush... people who supported him often say that he is a man of strong action, somebody they can trust when something needs done... yeah, right, like he can relate. Bush smirks or nervously laughs whenever he feels insincere about his comments... Bush cares about these people about as much as his father cared about the people in the LA riots
Bush makes me vomit.
How the hell can he tell people 'not to worry' and to 'take comfort' because all of America's 'prayers and thoughts' are with them?
Prayers and fucking thoughts!? They need the army to come in and rescue the survivors. New Orleans is not habitable. Evacuation is the priority. If some mad twats want to shoot at the military the military should shoot back. End of story.
People are dying whilst Bush takes advice from Daddy and wonders whether he should pull his thumb out his ass.
he's a Christian fundie, he actually thinks prayer will work (while simultaneously forgetting that the very same deity he's suggesting they mumble at, must have DONE this in the first place...gotta love these tards)
FWIW, I seen a LOT of stranded white folks too, many of them elderly (you give both balls and a leg to save the world as a youth and as an old man your own president sits back and watches you starve after a bit of wind).
I am shocked that people haven't started organising their own aid into the region, surely there must be foreign food aid around. Maybe US society really has descended to "I'm all right jack", but I bloody hope not. Then again, the way things are in that god forsaken land, the fucking military that ARE there probably have orders to shoot anyone bringing in food.
I think the only deity Bush is in league with is Satan!
Own personal belief here; If you believe in God (or a positive spiritual force; whatever people want to call it) you've also got to believe in the Devil (or a negative spiritual force; whatever people want to call it). It's the affect of the devil (inside and outside of the human mind) that causes the bad things in life in my opinion.
I cannot believe the breakdown in civilization in New Orleans. People shooting helicopters that evacuating the hospital. FEMA suspending boat rescues because of violence. No place to set down supplies.
300 ain't enough; more like 3,000 are needed. They should get the Army in and obviously they should only shoot people who shoot at them.
It's shocking to see how quickly society can collapse!
Did society breakdown like this when the tsunami with the Pacific last year? Florida got whacked by five hurricanes last year but was the level of street crime and chaos this high?
twist wrote: Did society breakdown like this when the tsunami with the Pacific last year?
I don't think so... Even at our big flooding in eastern germany a few years ago, everything stayed "normal"...
Rian wrote: Michael Moore
Mr. Moore is a hero.
The 30 degrees sea waters means that this could happen again and this year- already another hurricane (Lee) is brewing...
And what does homeland security do? Obviously it's a Cinderella operation to make the 'good folks' think Bush is looking out for domestic national security, whilst he happily spends billions bombing and destablising Middle Eastern nations.
The very first day Bush was elected I knew things were going to get bad, but never did I imagine they would be this bad.
And what does Tony'Bush puppy'Blair have to say to Mr. Bush at this moment of crisis...?
"Respect for other people (in the UK) must be learnt within families first" - WTF!!??!!
Hmmmm Mr Moore is very often correct, but he unsettles me for two reasons. !. His TV show is a tacky, cheap version of what Mark Thomas has been doing here, and 2. If he put one penny in his pocket from F-911, he should stand trial as an accessory, however right and powerful the movie was, you cannot profit from terrorism.
the Uk lack of a response is even more stunning, we LOVE to think of ourselves as a helpful lot, and are usually one of the first to get manpower and aid to disaster areas. So where's the UK aid to these people?
The thing that scares me about troops being sent in with a specific "put down the assholes" mandate, is that it may have been a good idea a coupla days ago, but by now it would apear that many of the ordinary citizenary are getting more than a bit riled about how they've (not) been treated.....and given US gun laws, an unsettling proportion are likely to be armed. Trust George to do the wrong thing at the right time and the right thing at the wrong time. I actually play a game now called "predict Dubya's actions by thinking of the dumbest possible thing to do at any given time".
I was thinking about what's been said about society guttering and liquifying. I suppose that the more dependent on the infrastructure of society, the harder damage to it affects you. Makes you wonder about all those ggs over the years about the USA being so far gone that the loss of the coke machine and MTV is enough to send people mental. Then again, I seen no such loss of sanity in NYC a few years ago, they met that day with courage, so I dunno.
I can't do much from here but I'm willing to spend some money (red cross or else)... 
But there is always the question if the money gets where it is needed.
Steve Campbell wrote: I only scan read the article (TBH I only heard what was happening TODAY, I've had my head up my arse post house move).
But am I to believe the whole fookin US army is in Iraq? You really gotta wonder what'll happen if a really dangerous country were to be agressive towards the US, if it takes ALL of the army to suppress and control a tiny battered nation like Iraq.
Surely, even if the Govt are useles, the ordinary people of the nearby states will help out?
Was quite shaken to see a Policeman in tears because he'd been running around helping as much as he could, but had no idea if his own family were alive.
I wish I could help, but I'm rather a long way away. it's certain that if something is not done really soon, it's going to get a lot worse very quick.
As I understand it. the acusation that is being raised is that the budget for the flood protection in NO was cut in order to finance the various wars and homeland security. This is surely a scandal of massive proportions now that a major city has, to all itents and purposes, been lost to the sea. The civil unrest must surely be in part due to anger at this.
Well if a US company blew all it's safety money on advertising, and there was a major incident, I assume someone would get roaylly fucked over for it, I don't suppose the same holds true for the Govt. ?
sadly us sitting gassing about this on the net doesn't help those people one bit. FFS if this was africs there'd be relief there already. (I can hear the moron element's spin on this already...."we shouldn't help poor countries cos we can't take care of ourselves" )
Its unfortunate for two reasons that katrina didnt happen before the iraqi war:
The main flaw of the war and the hurricane was the lack of preparation. Not to mention the lies.
parts of the city are on fire--residential neighbourhoods have just started burning, including those near xavier university. with so much oil in the water they're expected to spread even further if they cannot be put out immediately, which isn't happening. these fires add to those burning since this morning in the industrial areas.
Bush criticizes federal relief effort
Uh, Earth to fucktard, you're running things, supposedly...
bLuE oRdEr wrote: Bush criticizes federal relief effort
Uh, Earth to fucktard, you're running things, supposedly...
man, you're not being fair, blue! it's not nice to make fun of people who don't speak earthling as a first language. remember, bush needs a translator--earth tells rove. rove translates for bush.
didn't one of Shrub's forerunners have a sign on his deak on the oval office saying "the buck stops here" ?
I used to think he was some kind of US supremecist nutjub, now I see he is merely a George Wankstain Shrub supremecist.....fuck the Americans.
Remind me how New Orleans voted?
bet it's a blue town in a red state.
Steve Campbell wrote: didn't one of Shrub's forerunners have a sign on his deak on the oval office saying "the buck stops here" ?
Harry S. Truman (Presidency: 1945-1952). I was thinking the same thing myself today.
I used to think he was some kind of US supremecist nutjub, now I see he is merely a George Wankstain Shrub supremecist.....fuck the Americans.
Remind me how New Orleans voted?
bet it's a blue town in a red state.
this is the first time i've ever seen TV newsreaders turn against the government. i don't mean 'tiptoe around the notion that the government might possibly be making a slight error,' but actually come out and say, in so many words, that the federal government is doing a really shitty job at the moment and bush has no idea what the hell is going on...but he should have known all along.
about damn time.
i'm curious to hear what the're saying over on fox, but my stomach isn't that strong.
AgentWood wrote:
i'm curious to hear what the're saying over on fox, but my stomach isn't that strong.
What they're saying (because I've seen enough to know):
Bill O'Reilly: Grumble grumble grumble New York Times grumble liberal bias grumble politicize grumble grumble ham sandwich grumble grumble beer? yes please grumble :drink:
Sean Hannity: Yap yap yap liberals yap yap yap Bush bestest president since Reagan yap yap yap Ann Coulter's booby yap yap yap closet case yap yap yap yap yawn pause for hot air intake...yap yap yap 
Greta Van Sustern: Natalee Holloway...oh, and New Orleans, but mostly Natalee 
Fox and Friends: wacky morning banter hey ain't CNN biased? wacy morning banter we're so clever wacky morning banter fuck you liberal media! wacky morning banter who needs to find Osama anyway? wacky morning banter 
Notice no criticism of Government inaction...:p
i did bite the bullet and look at america's newspaper, the washington times.
notice how the department of homeland security is covered versus the coverage of FEMA?
I just hope New Order fans from around the world don't think all Americans are as retarded as George W. I voted for John Kerry last year so I'm proud to say I wasn't one of the 50+ million stupid people.
Jay993 wrote: I just hope New Order fans from around the world don't think all Americans are as retarded as George W.
only the few who make false assumptions rather than valid ones.
most of the confusion is over what the term 'football' means.
Jay993 wrote: I just hope New Order fans from around the world don't think all Americans are as retarded as George W. I voted for John Kerry last year so I'm proud to say I wasn't one of the 50+ million stupid people.
Ditto ditto
Trying to take the partisan blinders off. FEMA and the National Guard were on standby before the shit hit the fan. OK now, deployment of supplies and the logistics involved in distributing them are two totally different things. Clearly, FEMA dropped the ball in the South -- of this there's no dispute.
Next problem -- use of force (lethal or non-lethal) against US citizens in a disaster area. First thing, a dusk-to-dawn curfew should be implemented. I have several friends here who are Guardsmen. All were sent to New Orleans just after the hurricane hit. I spoke to two of them just last night -- the place is a mess and they've been given powers of arrest.
Look, it's not a political thing, it's FEMA's deal. They're the ones who messed it up, not Bush, not Kennedy, not anyone else.
But what responsibility did the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO have? Seems to me that if your city is ripe for a natural disaster of this magnitude, and people have been saying this for years, some sort of plan should have been ready. Sitting on the roof top bitching about the Federal government not bailing your entitled ass out is not a plan. If my house is on fire my children know how to get the fuck out. Now not everyone is able to leave a large city on 3 days notice. BUT the city and State should have had some system of evacuation of the poor, elderly and infirm.
I suppose next time FEMA and the NG should sit back and and watch CNN and deploy relief workers where the reporters are.
I do not actually care who's fault it is. I'm just tryin to wrap my head around people in the world's richest, most advanced nation, dying like like they're from some 3rd world ass end of nowhere...in fact worse.
As I say, it sort of proves what the crazies have been saying all along that FEMA camps are not for evacuees, but concentration camps for when nationwide marshall law is declared....otherwise, call me insane, but I rather think THIS might be the kind of thing they'd be good for.
People in china were rescued faster, people in bangladesh get aid faster. One thing's for sure, the rest of us wont be putting the USA in charge of anything more important than maming sure the cat doesn't get out, until you can elect a GOVT. who can read, write, and understand science, not fairly tales.
Can you imagine the belly laughs the US-real enemies are getting out of this..."if he does this to his own, think what he has planned for the rest of us" type sthings.
Funny Fema id OK after 911....or did they put someone else in charge of getting NYC back online in 3 days? (may I suggest sending WHOEVER it was to NO...about FYCKING NOW!!!!!!"
Those NYT articles were real interesting, I'm sure it'll be closed(more likely burned) down soon. Been reading the NO times too, scary scary biccies.
I love the "who could know" attitude some of those in charge are spouting....well YOU could know....as your own survey said that terroists in NYC, hurricanes in NO and The big one in Ca were the three biggest threats. Well, they met the first one well (before george went on his campaign to swell Al-Q's ranks with volunteers), made a pig's ballsack of the 2nd. GET OUT OF Ca NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
one good thing i see coming out of this is that republicans will lose seats because of the lack of protection for the people. After all the fed govt is ran by republicans.
its easy to pass around blame, it's a very difficult situation... but Bush supporters advertise him as a man of decisive action, a strong man to defend americans, and the problem here was a lack of decisive action... the federal gov't had a wait and see attitude and Bush only got involved when it became obvious that this was a major disaster and that more people were going to die
the people affected the worst are some of the poorest people in the United States... if these people who are refugees were middle class white people, they would have acted like this was a war zone and taken much faster action trying to evacuate people to military bases... maybe not direct racism but a sign of what is important... the "culture of life" morality is very flexible
twist wrote: Trying to take the partisan blinders off. FEMA and the National Guard were on standby before the shit hit the fan. OK now, deployment of supplies and the logistics involved in distributing them are two totally different things. Clearly, FEMA dropped the ball in the South -- of this there's no dispute.
Next problem -- use of force (lethal or non-lethal) against US citizens in a disaster area. First thing, a dusk-to-dawn curfew should be implemented. I have several friends here who are Guardsmen. All were sent to New Orleans just after the hurricane hit. I spoke to two of them just last night -- the place is a mess and they've been given powers of arrest.
Look, it's not a political thing, it's FEMA's deal. They're the ones who messed it up, not Bush, not Kennedy, not anyone else.
But what responsibility did the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO have? Seems to me that if your city is ripe for a natural disaster of this magnitude, and people have been saying this for years, some sort of plan should have been ready. Sitting on the roof top bitching about the Federal government not bailing your entitled ass out is not a plan. If my house is on fire my children know how to get the fuck out. Now not everyone is able to leave a large city on 3 days notice. BUT the city and State should have had some system of evacuation of the poor, elderly and infirm.
I suppose next time FEMA and the NG should sit back and and watch CNN and deploy relief workers where the reporters are.
part of my reason for putting up the link to washington times article is this: FEMA is now under the umbrella of the department of homeland security. so how can one blame FEMA while not criticizing the new organization that was created to make disaster prevention, preparation and resolution more streamlined?
you're right about the dusk-to-dawn curfew (we had one here after charley), but the police were simply outgunned. not to mention that 1/3 of all new orleans police turned in their badges--i saw a report last night in which a NOPD officer blasted his former colleagues for abandoning their posts and behaving in a cowardly manner.
does any large city have a system of evacuation for the poor and infirm? i'm serious about this, because i don't know the answer.
Cover of the tabloid New York Daily news
Shame of the nation
Also there is awesome column in today's NYtimes by the fantastic lady Maureen Dowd. I advise you to look it up.
I switched CNN on this morning to see Castro offering 26 tons in medical supplies and 1,000 volunteer surgeons to the U.S.
I read in someone's comment on another site (therefor I can neither confirm nor vouch for it's authenticity) that someone who phoned FEMA, asking to donate was instead advised to give said donation to Pat Robertson (is that what you call him?)'s something or other fund.
WTF, a federal agency advising a citizen to support a rightwing extremist over helping black people????????
As I said, I've always been scred he'd start a war between humanity and the USA, but it seems he wants to thin out the internal populace first.
GET OUT OF THERE ALL OF YOU NOW!
(bit shit to go as it's rather a nice country from what I've seen of it, but better alive than dead...i say bail)
It's a natural disater. Shit really does happen.
But the chaos that has ensued in new orleans hits really hard because you start wondering how stable is the community you live in?
Ask Steve Campbell or Maya about 'shit happening' in their hometowns, that stuff was not natural.
But who am I to comment?
Barney Army wrote: It's a natural disater. Shit really does happen.
But the chaos that has ensued in new orleans hits really hard because you start wondering how stable is the community you live in?
Ask Steve Campbell or Maya about 'shit happening' in their hometowns, that stuff was not natural.
But who am I to comment?
if you want to see a city which has had the worst combination of natural and man-made disasters (thanks in part to ronald reagan) over the past century and is the centre of the black hole of bad luck, go to managua, nicaragua. earthquakes, volcanoes, dictators, civil war...you name it. it's the cesspool of all cesspools; even the nicaraguenses despise their capital city. i was stuck there for 3 days because of the christmas holiday before i could get over to leon (the centre of sandinista politics and a much nicer city, despite being bombed by the last of the general somozas).
still, i want to go back this winter break. great country, crappy capital city.
twist wrote: Look, it's not a political thing, it's FEMA's deal. They're the ones who messed it up, not Bush, not Kennedy, not anyone else.
But it is a political thing. Bush says it's not political because he's the fuckup who's responsible. As long as he can get people to believe that he's not the fuckup who's responsible, by saying "let's not play politics," then the buck ends up somewhere else: FEMA, mother nature, uppity black folks, anywhere but on his desk.
Heres' why it's political:
(1) Global warming. Bush has spent his entire presidency pretending it doesn't exist. He's fought tooth and nail to prevent the U.S. from taking any steps to slow down and reverse global warming. If it doesn't exist, you don't have to take any steps to stop it.
Here's what we know about global warming that's relevant to New Orleans: The Southeast coast of the U.S. is the most vulnerable part of the U.S. to global warming impacts. We can expect bigger storms, more often. Anybody who's read the scientific reports knows this. Bush asks how he could have known beforehand? He's a lying sack of shite.
Hurricanes have been happening since weather began-- about 6000 years now, according to the Bush crowd. It would be totally unfair to blame Bush for a hurricane. We've been headed for a global warming disaster since before Bush was born, so it would be totally unfair to blame Bush for causing global warming as well. BUT, Bush has worked vigorously to prevent the world's largest emitter of greenhouse gases from curbing its emissions. Clearly, he places the welfare of his oil and coal conies above the welfare of every living being on this planet. He's fiddled while the planet burns, so it is fair to blame him for the the devastation resulting from global warming.
(2) Flood control. Bush has cut flood control funding for New Orleans every single year since the Iraq vendetta. He asks how he could have known beforehand? FEMA-- the agency Bush wants to blame-- reported to him at the beginning of his presidency that the top 3 emergencies the U.S. faces are (1) a terrorist attack in New York City; (2) a hurricane in New orleans, and (3) an earthquake in San Francisco.
We've all seen how he sat around with his thumb up his ass while bin Laden sent terrorists to pilot school in Florida, and we've all seen how he sat around with his thumb up his ass while those same terrorists flew planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon.
Now we come to New Orleans, and he's cut flood control funding every year. $250 million in repairs were needed, but he sent that money to fund his family vendetta in Iraq instead. Meanwhile, he let his developer buddies build on the delta wetlands and barrier islands-- nature's flood control system. And Bush asks how he could have known?
San Francisco's next. Funny how the top 3 national emergency problems in the U.S.-- emergencies Bush has ignored-- are blue cities. And he says "Let's not play politics"?
(3) The disaster relief. Whether he likes it or not, Bush is the President, and thus responsible. If FEMA fucked up, it's still up to Bush to get the ball rolling. But he couldn't be bothered. No, he was busy vacationing at his ranch. Sure, he could interrupt his vacation to rush back to DC to intervene in the Terry Schiavo debacle, but interrupt his vacation to get the ball rolling on disaster relief for a few hundred thousand poor black people? The whole world saw what he did with that one. He kept right on vacationing.
When he finally did get off his candy ass and tour the area, he was dazed by what he saw. Why? He's the President-- why doesn't the President know what's going on in the worst disaster area the nation has ever witnessed? The rest of the world knew what was going on-- what's his excuse?
But what responsibility did the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO have? Seems to me that if your city is ripe for a natural disaster of this magnitude, and people have been saying this for years, some sort of plan should have been ready.
The plan is: (1) Make the flood control repairs; Bush spent the money on his family vendetta instead, and sent the rest as tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans; (2) FEMA coordinates emergency relief; FEMA is under Homeland Security, which reports to the President, so ultimately, Bush is the fuckup in charge.
The Governor can declare a state of emergency, which allows the federal government to begin relief efforts. The Governor did her job. The Governor can send in the National Guard-- except they're on duty in Bush's family vendetta.
The mayor can declare martial law. He did that. The mayor can deply the police. He did that. The mayor can ask for federal assistance. He did that.
While the mayor and Governor were doing their jobs, Bush was on vacation at his ranch.
Sitting on the roof top bitching about the Federal government not bailing your entitled ass out is not a plan. If my house is on fire my children know how to get the fuck out.
Some people are so poor that they don't have a car. Some people are so poor that they don't have money to put gas in a car. Some people don't know anybody who has the money to put gas in a car. Some people are so poor they can't buy a bus ticket or a train ticket to get out of town. Some people are old and sick and in wheelchairs.
Maybe we should blame them.
Now not everyone is able to leave a large city on 3 days notice. BUT the city and State should have had some system of evacuation of the poor, elderly and infirm.
And where does FEMA-- the Federal Emergency Management Agency-- fit into all of this disaster planning?
Barney Army wrote: It's a natural disater. Shit really does happen.
Shit happens, but Bush has known for years, and DID NOTHING. That's not a natural disaster-- it's a policy choice.
leeharveyoswaldR.I.P1963 wrote: Cover of the tabloid New York Daily news
Shame of the nation
Also there is awesome column in today's NYtimes by the fantastic lady Maureen Dowd. I advise you to look it up.
"Let's not play politics."-- George W. Bush.
Whatever, George.
Barney Army wrote: It's a natural disater. Shit really does happen.
But the chaos that has ensued in new orleans hits really hard because you start wondering how stable is the community you live in?
Ask Steve Campbell or Maya about 'shit happening' in their hometowns, that stuff was not natural.
But who am I to comment?
Tis true that the stuff that fucks you over here is man made. But it's made up for by....
I don't think anyone's blaming bush for making the wind blow[1], but the fact is, that this is the worst response to any natural disaster from a developed nation that I think anyone has ever seen. there is an excellent agency set up to deal with this ( that now seems to be part of the secret polic....I'm sorry, I mean Homeland Security), an agency that has responded adequately, MORE than adeqately in the past (AND without using many of the powers at it's disposal), yet this time it sat in inaction while this was permitted to happen. And the general feeling seems to be that the troops were only finally sent in in limitd numbers to protect the interests of business from looters (tho I would hope that even brainwashed soldiers wont shoot hungry people for taking bread. VCR's shoot em, Bread, leave em be).
You said about shit happening here, well it does. When I was a kid(like pram, goooga wooga etc etc) the IRA dissappeared the CBD of Bangor overnight. The next day the police rippedthe house accross the road from ours to pieces, it seems the cell had been staying their while planning, for almost a year. Since then there have been 3(posssibly more, but 3 is all I can recall) major attacks on the town, 2 at the lower seafront end, and one at the top, which was so powerful it moved the 15-yrold postoffice back 6 inches.
Many people live on those streets in the appartments above the shops, some were hurt, most weren't. But I don't recall anyon ever having to spend a night outside or go hungry. Even in the aftermath of the Omagh bomb, no one was left homeless or hungry, in all the chaos of the cleanup, ot only the residents of Omagh, but visitors to the place too shocked or hurt to go home, but not bad enough for the hospitals, everyone was fed and accomadted. Obviously N.Orleans dwarfs Omagh, but then, the USA dwarfs N Ireland in resources and manpower (Omagh is so small, that the 29 who were murdered actually constitute a significantly larger percentage of the populace than were affected by the WTC attacks, but silly statistics don't bring people back from either).
Can you imagine how the USA's enemies are reacting to this, OMG they must be rolling around, and milking it for every bit of "uncaring capitalists" and "evil infidel" propaganda. He(his administration and his officials too of course, but as I was saying above, the final responsibilty rests sqarely in front of the window of the oval office) aint just hurting people in N orleans, he's hurtig the whole nation in SO many ways, internally AND in the eyes of the world.
[1] ALTHOUGH, IF ( and I say IF cos it's FAR from factual) global warming is happening as stated, then his refusal to sign up to anything that means the US has to act like grown ups and be responsible, could well be a contributing factor (tho more likely it will be so for a hurricane 20 years from now) :)
Barney Army wrote: great insight to livin in another place mate.
Which is what this website is about yeh?
Insight.
Did you see what I did there?
are you talkin to yourself mate? that's not good, I know cos I do it lots :)
Yeah I know, there are more persistent, more pervassive, ugly sides to it than just the odd bomb. And there are one or two areas, that....well let's just say the Brits live longer in close quarters in Iraq BECAUSE of those areas. But for once I thought I'd be positive about the place. Genuinely THE nicest thing is that 10 mins in any direction from my house by foot, and I'm surrounded by either green or blue, and if a car is added in, 10 mins can take me to waterfalls, rolling hills, lakes, dense forest, you name it. And that holds even for most bits of Belfast. The land is just too, too "fuck you I'm Ireland and I'm gonna sit here and be ireland and you see if you can feckin stop me". It could never be utterly tamed it permits us to live here, nothing more. It's why, although I'm (MANY generations) scots on both sides, and carry a UK passport, if you ask me, I'm irish, cos Ireland runs thru me.
I was just musing to myself..... "what would happen to me if it(N Orleans) were here and now and no one helped". And the short answer is, I'd be boned as a dogfish! As you probably know, I'm off work on the sick, had no income from may unril like 3 weeks ago (and that's subsistence benefits, enough to get by on, but not enough to struggle back outta the hole of the last few months with. There is supposedly backpay coming from the social services, because my employer fucked me by not telling me I had to apply, but although they keep saying it'll show, it doesn't).
No car, and not in much conidtion to walk very far, even here. If I was in Louisiana (the only place on earth more humid than Bangor as far as I can tell), the climate would have me in agony (as keeping my skin dry, especially near sweat glands is essential, yeah that's gonna work in a swamp). No money for transport, nothing. I'd just have to move my shit upstairs and dig in as best I could. Of course such food that is in the freezer and fridge will spoil in HOURS in such a climate, leaving only what tinned foods are around (do you have manual can openers over there?), with no means of cooking save for lighting a fire indoors. I reckon after 2 days I'd be a desperate animal (bear in mind that sometimes the pain and the imprisonment have me like that anyway as my family and GF will attest). Thank God I have no time for guns ( and would have none even if they were leagal (actually, I think up until recently I could have got one as my old boy is a cop), or I'm sure I'd be a gun toting maniac by this stage.
the more I try to put myself in their posistion, but with my own financial and physical circumstances the nastier it feels. Of course if I phone to donate, they'll tell me to donate to the feckin nazi party instead.
yeh, but look on the bright side...
New Order are bringing out a new LP next year.
Sorry to sound flippant Steve, but New Order are bringing out a new LP next year.
If you needed a new roof on your house and you knew that the next time it rained all your possessions would be ruined you would do what was necessary. So you go to your bank and they either turn your loan request down or do not lend you enough money to fix your roof. What do you do now. Ignore the problem and pretend it will go away or do you take ownership of the situation and seek the funds somewhere else? New Orleans and the State of Louisiana chose the first option, ignore the situation. As many dumb ass frat boys that go there every year and drunken college girls that flash their titties every Mardis Gras for Girls Gone Stupid videos I think the city could have been creative in finding a source of revenue. A band measure or an increase in the alcohol tax or a stick it to the tourists plan could have made up for the lack of federal fundage.
Even more important, what did the Governor and the Mayor have planned? Did they call GreyHound to ask for bus to help evacuate those lacking the means to leave? What about all the public school bus sitting there in 3 feet of water? Why were they not mobilized to help move people out? Was there a written disaster plan? Or was this a city such a welfare entrenched society that they could not think for themselves except to complain.
And why would Bush want to fuck this up? This could have been a political goldmine. Big brother on white horse rescuing the unfortunates of New Orleans. Politicians love this shit. Hates minorites?? He has been kissing the Hispanic vote since Day One. Has a very genetically diverse staff. He made gains in the black vote and could still, if he can bullshit his way through this, get even more. Rudi G was on his political deathbed before 9/11. Now look at him as a potential presidential contender.
This is not Florida where despite getting whacked five times in one year where people dig out and the only crime is from drunken roofers and where the damage is geographically limited to a much smaller space. This is a major US city majorly flooded and that failed to evacuate and having an obvious very low form of life (child rapers ect). Florida also has tougher building codes (planning ahead). But I guess New Orleans had different values. Prevention of a major disaster was not one of them.
As an non-american it is sad to see all that is going on there. Every catastrophe is handled easily in Hollywood-movies, but in reality... Oh my god...
i heard on the beeb that el salvador has better disaster planning than the US. not surprising.
60 years ago the Americans were liberating us from Nazism and Fascism, giving freedom and future to Europe and basically saving the whole world. The Marshall Plan was totally essential in the reconstruction of Europe. And now, what do we have to see? What will happen next time something really serious happens to an area involving dozens of millions of people, I mean not just Louisiana? What's happening in New Orleans shows a frightening weakness of the Western civilization. The world can't count on the protection from the USA anymore. They can't even bring some fookin bread to some poor hurricane survivors in their own country. I mean, hospitals have no water and no electricity. Do you understand? Get people outta that fookin hell now! It's a real shame, which can only be cancelled by getting rid of that cunt as soon as possible. If this was a fair world, Americans should protest on strike every day until Bush resigns. When you can't protect your own people, you have failed. He just hates poor people so much. I bet he's thinking he's just getting rid of some expenses for the welfare state. Cunt!!! (and he can push the nuke button too, bring him away!) What's really frightening is we're not seeing some Third World country here, but an American state, what happens there could happen to anyone living in America, every American should be involved and feel Bush not helping the people in New Orleans is the same as if he didn't help people in Los Angeles, Chicago or New York. You could be there in the place of those poor people. You must have some dignity and defend them and defend yourself too.
twist wrote: If you needed a new roof on your house and you knew that the next time it rained all your possessions would be ruined you would do what was necessary. So you go to your bank and they either turn your loan request down or do not lend you enough money to fix your roof. What do you do now. Ignore the problem and pretend it will go away or do you take ownership of the situation and seek the funds somewhere else? New Orleans and the State of Louisiana chose the first option, ignore the situation. As many dumb ass frat boys that go there every year and drunken college girls that flash their titties every Mardis Gras for Girls Gone Stupid videos I think the city could have been creative in finding a source of revenue. A band measure or an increase in the alcohol tax or a stick it to the tourists plan could have made up for the lack of federal fundage.
Even more important, what did the Governor and the Mayor have planned? Did they call GreyHound to ask for bus to help evacuate those lacking the means to leave? What about all the public school bus sitting there in 3 feet of water? Why were they not mobilized to help move people out? Was there a written disaster plan? Or was this a city such a welfare entrenched society that they could not think for themselves except to complain.
And why would Bush want to fuck this up? This could have been a political goldmine. Big brother on white horse rescuing the unfortunates of New Orleans. Politicians love this shit. Hates minorites?? He has been kissing the Hispanic vote since Day One. Has a very genetically diverse staff. He made gains in the black vote and could still, if he can bullshit his way through this, get even more. Rudi G was on his political deathbed before 9/11. Now look at him as a potential presidential contender.
This is not Florida where despite getting whacked five times in one year where people dig out and the only crime is from drunken roofers and where the damage is geographically limited to a much smaller space. This is a major US city majorly flooded and that failed to evacuate and having an obvious very low form of life (child rapers ect). Florida also has tougher building codes (planning ahead). But I guess New Orleans had different values. Prevention of a major disaster was not one of them.
I sthought money for flood defense was a federal thing, I stand corrected. So, broadly, you're saying...."they brought it on themselves and partied away their money, let em die" Well, now I know bush isn't the VERY last person I want in the whitehouse.
I just want to know what the governor of LA and mayor of NO did to prevent or alleviate this tragedy. Easy to sit back and blame Bush. But when I see all those public school buses sitting there wasted I begin to think that something more could have been done on the local level to get people out before the shit hit the fan. Obviously the looters (those taking items other than those required for survival) were going to stay. But many others could have been evacuated. the buses could have been moved to higher ground and brought back for rescues.
I am so sick of this blame others when one could do things for oneself.
The problem is not who has the ultimate responsibility. The President, when something so serious happens, has responsibility anyway and it doesn't matter other people you can blame, he is the first to blame. No president or king can see people without food, water and emergency medicines for four days and claim he's not to blame. It doesn't matter he's a Republican, I'd say the same if he was Kerry, and I don't think such a shame would have happened under Eisenhower... You can do many mistakes as a President: having a blowjob from a secretary who will then tell everything to the medias (as if we really cared), send people to war saying the enemy has weapons of mass destructions when in fact he hasn't... but you can't committ the crime of seeing your own people in your own country abandoned without basic aid for days. When Americans liberated Europe they brought food and aid for everyone just as they came... 60 years later they can't "liberate"... New Orleans! Not even Alaska or the Hawaiis... New fookin Orleans, you know what I mean? If I was Bush I'd just bury myself for the shame, whether I'm really guilty or not. My people are dying because no one helps them, it doesn't matter who should have helped them, I should have anyway, I'm the head of the nation, I deserve the fookin guillotine. That's all. Power has its price. Come on, Bush. Discover dignity. Resign. Now!
Are there any numbers of how many dead people are there? Didn't anyone assume more than 10.000? I wouldn't wonder if they (government) lie about the amount of corpses... Oh fook what a sad shit this is...
Bere wrote: Are there any numbers of how many dead people are there? Didn't anyone assume more than 10.000? I wouldn't wonder if they (government) lie about the amount of corpses... Oh fook what a sad shit this is...
we don't know the number of dead and, as after the tsunami, many of the bodies will never be found. the conservative estimate is 2,000 in new orleans at the moment, but that's a very conservative estimate. another conservative estimate is around 200 in mississippi. one red cross worker who worked in indonesia after the tsunami said that the destruction to the gulf coast was the worst she had ever seen--including the destruction after the tsunami. this is destruction to property and land, and does not reflect the destruction of human life; the tsunami victims had no warning, which is why the death toll was so high in the indian ocean region.
i don't think the government can lie abut the number dead nor do i think they will, as family members know who are dead and missing, and the numbers don't lie as they are broadcast via various media sources and word of mouth. lying about the numbers will only make things worse for the government agencies involved (from local to federal)--and it can't get any worse for them right now.
I heard rumours that they (gov) don't want help from other countries... Looks like a sign that they want to shade the full horror in front of others... But like I said that's rumours...
Bush doesn't have anything to lose. He can't be elected again either way...
Bere wrote: I heard rumours that they (gov) don't want help from other countries... Looks like a sign that they want to shade the full horror in front of others... But like I said that's rumours...
Bush doesn't have anything to lose. He can't be elected again either way...
true. at first condi rice said any help would be appreciated. now bush is saying they would consider who is sending the help and what help is needed. castro even offered to help. i'll bet bush turns down that one. what a stupid grudge!
You say you are tired of Bush getting the blame.
You are completely misunderstanding the division of labor in this country.
The U.S. Amy Corps of Engineers is the federal partner for local flood control efforts in this country. There is a federal partner because local government can't afford the cost of flood control. Just like local government can't afford the cost of building highways or mass transit or cops on the street or keeping the water clean. There are a lot of Government responsibilities that local Government needs help with because they'd have to jack up taxes to astronomical levels to provide those services without federal assistance. Some communities can afford to jack up their taxes; some can't. That's why the federal Government helps out-- so we don't end up with paved highways in Atherton, California and dirt roads in East Palo Alto, just a few miles away.
So the federal Government is a partner in local flod control efforts.
When Bush first took office, FEMA presented him with a report that outlined the 3 U.S. cities most vulnerable to a disaster. Those potential disasters were: (1) a terrorist attack in New York City; (2) A hurricane in New Orleans, and (3) an earthquake in San Francisco. We-- the world-- have all seen that Bush did absolutely nothing about a terrorist attack in NYC until after it happened. While Osama bin Laden was preparing to fly jetliners into NYC and DC, Bush was too busy vacationing at his ranch in Texas to bother responding to the urgent inelligence reports. He didn't do jack about Al Qaeda until after the fact. His response was to launch his family vendetta in Iraq-- a country that wasn't involved in the attack on NYC. Osama bin Laden is still out there, plotting his next attack.
In New Orleans, the plan-- THE PLAN you keep asking about in post after post-- has always been to make the needed repairs to the levees. That was the local plan, the state plan, and the federal plan. Bush and his Republican asshole cronies in Congress took the federal money designated for New Orleans flood control work and sent it to fund his family vendetta in Iraq instead. You ask about the plan? The plan was undermined by Bush and the Republican chickenhawks in Congress. You say it isn't fair to blame Bush, because the City and the State should have had a plan-- the City and State did have a plan, until Bush came along and took their funding every single year since his family vendetta in Iraq began.
There was still one more piece of the flood control plan intact until Bush came along-- the wetlands and barrier islands that serve as natural flood protection. Bush opened those up to development. No wetlands, no barrier islands, no natural flood protection.
And you say it isn't fair to blame Bush?
The flood control work wasn't the only part of New Orleans emergency planning. The National Guard is an integral part of that planning. Only the Louisiana National Guard-- along with their amphibious vehicles-- are in Iraq, not Louisiana. So if the State plan is to have the National Guard and their amphibious vehicles available, and Bush comes along and FUBARS that plan as well, why do you think it's unfair to blame Bush?
The City plan was to evacuate the City. They did that. The people left behind were the poor, the elderly, the sick. You think it's unfair to blame Bush-- what City resources should the Mayor have used that he didn't use? The schoolbuses? The schoolbuses that are underwater? Perhaps they should have been moved to higher ground before the hurricane. Do you have any spots in the City in mind where they could have parked all those buses? Do you have any suggestions about who would have been available to move all those buses as the hurricane was bearing down on the City?
The State's plan is to have the Naional Guard on duty. If the National Guard is in Iraq instead, what is the Governor supposed to do? Create new units post-disaster?
The City and the State had a plan-- it was flood control, the National Guard, and FEMA. Bush fucked up every single aspect of the plan, and you say it's not fair to blame Bush. So you blame the poor, the sick, and the elderly, the Mayor, who did everything he could with his resources, the Governor, who did everything she could with her resources-- anybody but the man responsible for the disaster.
The federal Government is a partner with local Government precisely because local Government doesn't have the resources to do everything that needs to be done. Local Government did everything it could with the resources it had. Bush took their funding and National Guard, and sat on his ass in Texas while the poor, the sick, and the elderly died.
And you think it's unfair to blame Bush?
bLuE oRdEr wrote: You say you are tired of Bush getting the blame.
You are completely misunderstanding the division of labor in this country.
The U.S. Amy Corps of Engineers is the federal partner for local flood control efforts in this country. There is a federal partner because local government can't afford the cost of flood control. Just like local government can't afford the cost of building highways or mass transit or cops on the street or keeping the water clean. There are a lot of Government responsibilities that local Government needs help with because they'd have to jack up taxes to astronomical levels to provide those services without federal assistance. Some communities can afford to jack up their taxes; some can't. That's why the federal Government helps out-- so we don't end up with paved highways in Atherton, California and dirt roads in East Palo Alto, just a few miles away.
So the federal Government is a partner in local flod control efforts.
When Bush first took office, FEMA presented him with a report that outlined the 3 U.S. cities most vulnerable to a disaster. Those potential disasters were: (1) a terrorist attack in New York City; (2) A hurricane in New Orleans, and (3) an earthquake in San Francisco. We-- the world-- have all seen that Bush did absolutely nothing about a terrorist attack in NYC until after it happened. While Osama bin Laden was preparing to fly jetliners into NYC and DC, Bush was too busy vacationing at his ranch in Texas to bother responding to the urgent inelligence reports. He didn't do jack about Al Qaeda until after the fact. His response was to launch his family vendetta in Iraq-- a country that wasn't involved in the attack on NYC. Osama bin Laden is still out there, plotting his next attack.
In New Orleans, the plan-- THE PLAN you keep asking about in post after post-- has always been to make the needed repairs to the levees. That was the local plan, the state plan, and the federal plan. Bush and his Republican asshole cronies in Congress took the federal money designated for New Orleans flood control work and sent it to fund his family vendetta in Iraq instead. You ask about the plan? The plan was undermined by Bush and the Republican chickenhawks in Congress. You say it isn't fair to blame Bush, because the City and the State should have had a plan-- the City and State did have a plan, until Bush came along and took their funding every single year since his family vendetta in Iraq began.
There was still one more piece of the flood control plan intact until Bush came along-- the wetlands and barrier islands that serve as natural flood protection. Bush opened those up to development. No wetlands, no barrier islands, no natural flood protection.
And you say it isn't fair to blame Bush?
The flood control work wasn't the only part of New Orleans emergency planning. The National Guard is an integral part of that planning. Only the Louisiana National Guard-- along with their amphibious vehicles-- are in Iraq, not Louisiana. So if the State plan is to have the National Guard and their amphibious vehicles available, and Bush comes along and FUBARS that plan as well, why do you think it's unfair to blame Bush?
The City plan was to evacuate the City. They did that. The people left behind were the poor, the elderly, the sick. You think it's unfair to blame Bush-- what City resources should the Mayor have used that he didn't use? The schoolbuses? The schoolbuses that are underwater? Perhaps they should have been moved to higher ground before the hurricane. Do you have any spots in the City in mind where they could have parked all those buses? Do you have any suggestions about who would have been available to move all those buses as the hurricane was bearing down on the City?
The State's plan is to have the Naional Guard on duty. If the National Guard is in Iraq instead, what is the Governor supposed to do? Create new units post-disaster?
The City and the State had a plan-- it was flood control, the National Guard, and FEMA. Bush fucked up every single aspect of the plan, and you say it's not fair to blame Bush. So you blame the poor, the sick, and the elderly, the Mayor, who did everything he could with his resources, the Governor, who did everything she could with her resources-- anybody but the man responsible for the disaster.
The federal Government is a partner with local Government precisely because local Government doesn't have the resources to do everything that needs to be done. Local Government did everything it could with the resources it had. Bush took their funding and National Guard, and sat on his ass in Texas while the poor, the sick, and the elderly died.
And you think it's unfair to blame Bush?
I neglected to mention the BIGGEST piece of City and State planning: The local partnership with the federal government through FEMA-- the Federal Emergency Planning Agency. The City and the State plan in EVERY community is to partner with FEMA for coordination of disaster relief, because the federal government has resources local communities don't have. So where was FEMA-- an agency under the control of George Bush-- in all of this? Where was FEMA-- the City and State plan for emergency relief-- when people were dying? While George Bush sat on his vacationing ass in Texas, FEMA did jack fuck-all after the hurricane-- and FEMA is under George Bush's command. Something the rght-wing blabbermouths are undoubtedly trying to discount right about now, because we wouldn't want to blame George Bush for anything that happened under his watch, now would we?
Yeah, let's blame the poor, the sick, the elderly, the Mayor-- anybody but George Bush.
Many thanks Blue Order for the excellent explanation and Steve for appreciating my post. Even if all the responsibility was on local level, when the leader of a nation is going to face such a huge disaster, should check if everything is ready and ask himself some questions and find some basic emergency solutions. For example: "Hey George, this Katrina hurricane is going to do quite some damage, but no problem, it's Louisiana which is in charge of everything... anyway, after that hurricane there will be corpses in the street, and people needing water and food. Is Louisiana ready for all those difficult tasks?" "Erm, no." "Well, I better move my own ass then. If Louisiana isn't ready we're doing something at federal level. At least send some food and someone to bury the bodies otherwise they'll rot in the streets for days. THEN we'll see how to punish the local government which hasn't prepared as it should have". But his stupid greedy little brain has never been able to think such simple things. So, now, first Bush should resign. Then, the next President will also look if the governor of Louisiana and the mayor of New Orleans have their faults. But first Bush must go. I know he won't though.
Bourbon Street bar stays open in spite of Katrina:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050904/ts_alt_afp/usweatherbar_050904183549
Can't say I blame 'em, it's been a hell of a week to put it mildly :beer2:
well ok im a brit and maybe i dont have the right to comment on what happens in america,but what the hey ill dip my toe in (god help me). ive read the posts that mick and blue have made in both the topics on this forum and feel inclined to agree with them both,but i do feel that to lay the blame so to speak at the feet of bush no matter how much i may feel hes a knob. is a bit unfair,ok ill agree that the shifting of funds from the sea defences was short sighted but that is only with the benefit of highndsight,and wouldnt the reaction have been the same no matter whom was in the whitehouse???. as someone whom has travelled and lived all over the globe the level of poverty in the state has quite litterally shocked me,to think that many thousands of people in new orleans couldnt even afford the gas money or bus or train fare to get out of town is quite frankly alarming. and personally think that it is the failure of many administrations over the years clinton ect included,as is usually the case in the uk on such occasions of national emergency. my heart goes out to all of those affected and hope that things get better mighty fast for them,and that the politicians that took them for granted for so long both local and national finally learn something from all this. goodnight and godbless from uk.
They had helicopters in there pulling people out withing 48 hours. Boats too. Too much reliance on FEMA by the administration. Why the fuck the army did not invade immediately I do not know why. Obviously not prepared for the anarchy, violence and crime. Human nature is never predictable. This is an unprecedented disaster, no examples to follow. 9000 square miles. Never fast enough. They said the same thing about the tsumani.
But obviously all of you are Bush haters, not that I really care for him, and are too intolerant of other views and opinions. Perhaps this is why Agent Wood was going to quit.
Fare the well.
One last post for Blue concerning bikes when I find the thread.
twist wrote: They had helicopters in there pulling people out withing 48 hours. Boats too. Too much reliance on FEMA by the administration. Why the fuck the army did not invade immediately I do not know why. Obviously not prepared for the anarchy, violence and crime. Human nature is never predictable. This is an unprecedented disaster, no examples to follow. 9000 square miles. Never fast enough. They said the same thing about the tsumani.
But obviously all of you are Bush haters, not that I really care for him, and are too intolerant of other views and opinions. Perhaps this is why Agent Wood was going to quit.
Fare the well.
One last post for Blue concerning bikes when I find the thread.
FFS Twist, I for one hope you stick around.
And I do despise Bush because I despise his policies, his values, and his politics. There's nothing of human redemption in the man.
That shouldn't be a reason for anybody to leave, though.
I hope you stick around. 
The latest local twist. Ossie victims and their rlatives are angry at Australian diplomatic staff for not doing more for them ie coming and getting them. Especially when they saw Aussie media there. Yes there were some 60 plus aussies there. Not all accounted for.
It really is like looking under the big rock of bullshit that usually eminates from America. If others are going to paste rethoric, then so will I. This is much better articulated than I could usually put it:
Race, Class and Hurricane Katrina
September 4, 2005
CAPITALISM’S COLLATERAL DAMAGE: TO BE POOR, BLACK AND DYING IN NEW ORLEANS
In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, the suffering in New Orleans and along a 400-mile stretch of the Gulf Coast has shown the world the searing realities of race and class in the United States. The life-and-death divide along skin color and wealth is being discussed on the front pages, on news broadcasts, and in local responses to the tragedy. An additional truth, so familiar it goes unrecognized, is the fact that the U.S. poor are overwhelmingly women of color, their kids, elders, and people with disabilities. These are the people who felt the brunt of the storm, the poisonous flood waters, and the unfeeling disdain of the Bush administration. Far from being an isolated calamity, the disaster in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast is the direct result of capitalism’s pursuit of the almighty dollar at the expense of those judged disposable by virtue of their race, gender and earning ability.
Hard times in the Big Easy The overwhelming majority of those unable to escape New Orleans before Katrina hit were poor and Black. The city is one of the most impoverished in the U.S.: nearly a third of the population lives in want. The city is wracked by corruption, with police brutality, low-paying jobs, unemployment, rampant racism, failing schools, and high levels of violence against women. More than two-thirds of New Orleans’ inhabitants were African American, many of them descendents of the slaves who built the city. In the Lower Ninth Ward, a neighborhood that was one of the hardest hit, more than 98% were Black.
After the storm subsided, TV cameras showed wrenching images of thousands in New Orleans trapped on rooftops, searching for food and water amidst the devastation, or starving and thirsty in putrid “shelters.” News watchers were horrified by the images of the dead lying for days in the streets or floating in the waters submerging the city. The number of those who died in Katrina’s aftermath is still unknown, but presumed to be in the thousands.
Despite the outrages, the frustration, injuries, illness and mounting, justifiable anger, the survivors showed a tremendous amount of compassion and solidarity. Reports of heroism and selflessness have filtered out. A TV news story told of several mothers who put their 17 children in a rowboat and asked a man to row them to safety, while they stayed behind in the rising waters. A Canadian reporter countered the stories of chaos in the streets with the testimony, “What I see are young people taking care of old people, the relatively healthy caring for the sick, people sharing their paltry supplies. It’s true there’s crime and violence, but tempers are terribly frayed, and feelings of hopelessness overwhelming.” (Toronto Star)
Too little help, too late Officials’ lack of concern for the people in harm’s way was shown as the storm approached when Louisiana governor Kathleen Blanco told residents to “pray the hurricane down” to a Category 2, while refusing to mobilize transport for those who had no way to leave the city.
President Bush and federal agencies responded callously, sluggishly, and inadequately. Rapper Kanye West spoke the feelings of many African Americans when he said on national television that the U.S. is set up “to help the poor, the Black people, the less well-off as slow as possible.” He added: “George Bush doesn’t care about Black people.”
Bush additionally insulted the survivors with his pronouncements about getting tough with looters. The media whipped up hysteria about “armed thugs” creating lawless mayhem. When people of color fought for the food and supplies they needed to survive, police were ordered to stop looking for survivors in order to guard Wal-Marts.
Numerous killings by police are receiving little media attention. But unsubstantiated and inflammatory stories about wholesale violence and rapes are getting international play. White supremacists are having a heyday decrying rape and assault against whites by Black “brutes.”
Though food, water and transportation trickled in, the oil industry took care of itself fast. Over 10 major refineries were knocked out of commission in the Gulf region, but many of them were back operating within the week. Bush released federal oil reserves, but oil companies took the opportunity to jack up gas prices to a criminal level. Unabashed speculation was the name of the game across the nation, but especially in the worst hit areas where gas topped $5.00 a gallon. Bush also moved quickly to loosen environmental safeguards to allow more pollution by gasoline producers. All this while the four largest oil companies— ExxonMobil, ChevronTexaco, RoyalDutch/Shell Group and BP Group PLC—had profits of nearly $100 billion in the last 18 months.
Capitalism kills While politicians wring their hands over the “natural disaster,” they ignore the fact that its lethal impact was a result of their own policies. This avoidable tragedy points out the deadly priorities of the capitalist system, which puts profits above human life.
The political establishment had plenty of warning that New Orleans, below sea level and virtually surrounded by water, was vulnerable to catastrophic flooding. Planners knew that massive evacuation of residents would be required someday. Many reports and scientific papers laid out the precise Katrina scenario. They warned that unbridled development along the coast had done away with millions of acres of wetlands that buffered coastal communities from storms. Scientists have shown that the increased intensity of hurricanes is associated with global warming and rising surface sea temperatures in the Gulf of Mexico. In other words, unchecked U.S. emissions are creating stronger hurricanes. But to address this means tackling politicians’ corporate sponsors.
For decades, the federal government – under both Republicans and Democrats -- has consciously refused to adequately maintain or strengthen the levees that protect New Orleans. Hurricane and flood control has received the steepest federal funding reductions in New Orleans history— down 44.2% since 2001. As Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, told The Times-Picayune in June 2004: “It appears that the money has been moved in the President’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that is the price we pay.” Requests for an additional $250 million for Army Corps of Engineers levee work in the delta went unmet. The message was clear: why fix levees or relocate housing for poor and workingclass people when the inevitable catastrophe is likely to happen on someone else’s watch? And when there is a killing to be made in expanding U.S. oil interests in Iraq?
As the storm waters swept across the Gulf states, more than a third of the Mississippi and Louisiana National Guard were fighting in Iraq. Their equipment, including generators, water purification systems and other needed life support and disaster preparedness supplies were overseas as well. Precious hours and days were lost as the bureaucratic machinery leadenly moved equipment from other parts of the country.
Nothing more clearly shows the fact that this is a capitalist-made tragedy than the real-life example of how the workers’ state of Cuba handled a similar situation. Barely a month before Katrina, on July 14, 2005, Cuba was swept by Hurricane Dennis, like Katrina, a Category 4 hurricane. Though impoverished by the U.S. embargo and lacking the vast resources the U.S. has at its disposal, the Cuban government was able to limit the death toll to 16, by smoothly relocating over 1.5 million citizens. Surely the richest nation on earth has the technical ability to do the same. But ability and will are two different things.
A socialist relief plan Hurricane Katrina displaced over 500,000 people in the Gulf Coast region. Now the government is faced with the mammoth job of reuniting these refugees with their loved ones, and finding them clothes, food, medical treatment, homes, jobs, schools and more. George Bush will utter pronouncements about refugees pulling themselves up by sheer determination and religious faith. Halliburton and other corporations are sidling up to the feeding trough for lucrative contracts that will maintain the South’s non-union, racist, sexist labor norms.
Public pressure is needed to prevent this despicable scenario. Demands should include:
l. Insure immediate housing, food, medical care and childcare for all who need it through government facilities and supplies. Turn the Washington, DC national mall, Bush’s ranch in Crawford, Texas, military bases, and Camp David into emergency shelters.
Institute a massive public works program and start building housing immediately. Hire the displaced at union wages, and provide relocation allowances and training.
Restitution for poor and working people who lost homes, personal property and jobs.
Cancel credit card debts for everyone affected, and void all debts on destroyed automobiles.
Put a national price cap on gasoline, diesel, heating oil and natural gas, at a rate that slashes corporate profits by at least 75%.
Bring the National Guard and all troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan now. Divert money from war to social programs. President Bush asks for donations to help hurricane victims, while spending public tax money for war—let’s reverse this equation.
This crisis should bring the downfall of George Bush and the entire Republican and Democrat supported capitalist system. It’s time to get serious about saving lives by eliminating the exploitative, discrimination- driven profit system and replacing it with a planned, cooperative economy run by the workers for the benefit of all regardless of race, gender, physical ability, sexual orientation, or age.
Freedom Socialist Party Statement on the Hurricane Katrina Tragedy
A perfect example of why the left will never govern in America. They make a bold statement of mostly valid critiques, but shoot themselves in the foot in the end.
First, what is the point of denying that people-- women and children-- were being raped and mugged? I haven't heard any reports of racially-motivated crimes in the aftermath of Katrina, but what is the point of denying that in America, being the wrong color in the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time can mean trouble? They veered from critique to ideology here, and they lose whatever credibility they gained by pushing an ideology that flies in the face of reality.
Second, following a powerful critique of the so-called relief effort, they laid out a mostly nonsensical 6-point plan. The first point-- refugee camps on the mall, at Bush's ranch, and at Camp David-- is absolutely not going to happen. It's just rhetorical posturing, so they are left with absolutely no realistic plan about what to do with several hundred thousand refugees. The second point-- hiring the displaced to rebuild at union wages-- assumes that (1) the displaced are unemployed, (2) the displaced have the needed construction skills, and (3) that there is a shortage of construction workers. The third and fourth points-- restitution and the cancellation of debt-- are more posturing. Who's going to restore their property and wages and cancel their debts? The Government? Private companies? Every American will be asking the same thing I'd ask-- "What about my debts?" What is the Freedom Socialist Party plan-- who's going to do what, for how long, and at what cost? The Fifth point is more rhetorical posturing. What are they proposing-- a national price cap, or a cap on profits? What happens when the price of a barrel of oil exceeds the price of the gasoline refined from that barrel? Or, what happens if the oil companies decide they can make more money investing their cash than they can in producing gasoline? Is cheap gasoline even a good idea, given the global warming implications? The sixth point-- bringing the troops home-- would free funding for domestic spending. So would stopping the tax cut welfare program for the wealthiest Americans. But it's not going to happen unless they have the support of the public. Posturing, posturing, posturing.
The American left can produce nonsensical non-programs like this because they have the freedom that comes with having absolutely no responsibility. They have no responsibility because they are not in elective office, and have no chance of winning elective office. That makes them undisciplined. In Europe, where the left actually wins elections on occasion, the left could never afford to be so undisciplined as to alienate the electorate with this nonsense. In America, the left plays at revolution, and assiduously avoids the responsibility of governing.
Took me a long time to work out what was up with the US left. Could never figure why liberal was a dirty word to right wingers.And was never sure why you kept electing crazy religious whackos... But I've seen a few things lately that scared me, all i can says is....I know why most of y'all can't be arsed voting, I feel the same way here.....I refuse to waste the ink to endorse a single one of the wankers on offer (here than means various species of nazi and the local sewing circle).
TBH, this aint one for point scoring. Headscractching and futureproofing would be a beter pursuit.
Steve Campbell wrote: Took me a long time to work out what was up with the US left. Could never figure why liberal was a dirty word to right wingers.And was never sure why you kept electing crazy religious whackos... But I've seen a few things lately that scared me, all i can says is....I know why most of y'all can't be arsed voting, I feel the same way here.....I refuse to waste the ink to endorse a single one of the wankers on offer (here than means various species of nazi and the local sewing circle).
TBH, this aint one for point scoring. Headscractching and futureproofing would be a beter pursuit.
blue, your response was eloquent and pragmatic. i'd like to add one other thing:
regarding point 1: washington, DC is one of america's poorest cities; tourism is a vital source of revenue for the city. turning the mall, the centerpiece of washington DC, into an emergency shelter would send the city into even greater debt and add to the already crushing poverty facing the city. it's not worth harming the poor of DC in order to make a political statement.
Americans always get punched in the face before they learn their lesson. War of 1812 (why is the truth about this war not taught in public or Christian schools), uncontrolled stock markets (Depression), Pearl Harbor (ignoring obvious military threats), Viet Nam (still working on this one), 9/11 (Muslim fanatics hate the threats of Western decadent democracies) and now New Orleans vulnerability to hurricanes. Of the latter we now know that if your city is surrounded by a lake, a large river and an ocean and if your city sits below sea level your city and state officials better have a feasible plan to save lives in case the shit hits the fan. The Federal government better be able to get the calvary there ASAP. Sending people to an unprepared sporting arena and waiting for FEMA is not a plan. FEMA's plan obviously was not enough nor fast enough in this situation. Relying on a system of levees, dikes and pumps designed for lessor hurricanes is not a good plan either. Having every Administration including Carter take funds away from these levees is bad planning.
This event is unprecedented in US history, perhaps in modern world history. Something like 9000 square miles whacked hard and the most densely populated area underwater makes rescue and recovery that much harder. Trucks drive faster on dry roads.
Never fast enough. Remember Andrew? It took over three days to get the supplies "trickling" in to Homestead Florida after Andrew. A full week before those supplies were being handed out to a large degree, and even longer than that to provide shelter for everyone affected. Oh, and most of Homestead was populated by whitey (for you black racists and white apologists). And Andrew was considered the biggest natural disaster to date with over 250,000 people homeless, without food, water and electricity.
WHat should the US do? Probably need a full division of US Army to be able to respond and get into disaster zones within 24 hours after winds stop. I bet NO has set a new precedent for urban crime. (GTA NO out next year) Raise the standard. This probably requires that the US finish the mess it created in Iraq. Either kill all the insurrgents or pull out and let the Shiites kill all the Sunnis. Pulling out of Viet Nam did not destroy the US. I'd prefer that the US would not leave Iraq in chaos but it's time to face reality both camps really hate each other.
Second. Every city needs to know how they are going to evacuate their people and where these people will go in case something like this occurs. This also means get the hospitals cleared out. The sick and infirm should not be left to die. 400 buses are sitting under water right now. They could have been used. I saw a dispatch yard full of big trucks now swimming. Look at how many cars and SUVs are drowing downtown. And please have some clue as where these people are going to go.
Every city needs to have at least a four day supply of food, water and medicine to help their people hold out until the calvary arrives. FEMA is quite clear when they tell States and cities that it may take some time for them to get there in force.
Other federal and state officials pointed to Louisiana's failure to measure up to national disaster response standards, noting that the federal plan advises state and local emergency managers not to expect federal aid for 72 to 96 hours, and base their own preparedness efforts on the need to be self-sufficient for at least that period. "Fundamentally the first breakdown occurred at the local level," said one state official who works with FEMA. "Did the city have the situational awareness of what was going on within its borders? The answer was no."
Rebuild the levees to withstand the worst case storm. This one was built for the average storm, not the once in 200 year storm. Do it right once and for all. Restore the wet lands. Let Mother Nature help protect.
Finally the US must rebuild New Orleans. Too much history. So many people call this home. The American Spirit requires it. Dresden, Berlin, Tokyo, Volgagrad, Leningrad, Hamburg, Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle...all rebuilt. As for businesses and employment if the US can bail out the greedhead bastards of the airline industry I think we can help NO employers and businesses.
FEMA NO AND LA dropped the ball
Levee scued from the start and Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Shrub stole its funding
Steve Campbell wrote: Took me a long time to work out what was up with the US left. Could never figure why liberal was a dirty word to right wingers.And was never sure why you kept electing crazy religious whackos... But I've seen a few things lately that scared me, all i can says is....I know why most of y'all can't be arsed voting, I feel the same way here.....I refuse to waste the ink to endorse a single one of the wankers on offer (here than means various species of nazi and the local sewing circle).
TBH, this aint one for point scoring. Headscractching and futureproofing would be a beter pursuit.
It's of course everyone's right to abstain from voting, but when people do this en masse the extremists get in and scary things happen.
I think elections should be declared invalid and re-run if less than 75% of people vote (or maybe people should be compelled to vote).
Theres a whole brace of minority parties which are there for the minority opinion, but if everyone voted some of these smaller parties would have more influence.
I'm a pragmatic leftie... I voted Labour (Democrat) normally, but when they upset me by doing things like invading Iraq, I vote Green...
Gotta remember but, that in NI we are banned from voting for the Govt. we're only allowed to chose between our own, which as I said, is varying types of nazi and the sewing circle.
I have voted once, the only time it mattered, on the referendum on the good friday agreement (Somethig I have to be grateful to Clinton for I suppose) ,and that was only cos the shinners were getting dead people to vote no, and the other lot were sending buses to old folks homes, taking them all to vote and saying "Now that nice Mr Paisley says you'e to vote no". Figuring that it may be nice if the future were decided by someone other than the dead and dying, I voted.
I was just thinking, never mind how much harm this has or has not done shrub.....it's really buggered your reputation, I mean before we just thought you were all gung ho and a bit reckless.......now we're thinking "ineffectual and incompetent" as well. Next time you try to take some international thing over, I ca see you getting a harder time..."errrr no thaks guys, we'd like this to work"
I think elections should be declared invalid and re-run if less than 75% of people vote (or maybe people should be compelled to vote).
I believe that in the former USSR voter turn out was very high although only one Party was on the ballot. Compelled by AKM (Autovat Kalashinkov Military, the AK47 not frontline weapon for years nor the AK74).
Choosing not to vote sends a political message. But it would be nice to have someone to vote for instead of someone to vote against like the last US election. This is why Kerry lost--"vote for me because I am not him."
twist wrote:
I think elections should be declared invalid and re-run if less than 75% of people vote (or maybe people should be compelled to vote).
I believe that in the former USSR voter turn out was very high although only one Party was on the ballot. Compelled by AKM (Autovat Kalashinkov Military, the AK47 not frontline weapon for years nor the AK74).
Choosing not to vote sends a political message. But it would be nice to have someone to vote for instead of someone to vote against like the last US election. This is why Kerry lost--"vote for me because I am not him."
Maybe you've hit on an idea here; a negative vote... maybe we should be allowed to vote for the person we don't want to be elected. I think that would be an important option if voting was compulsory...
digitalwaters wrote:
Steve Campbell wrote: Took me a long time to work out what was up with the US left. Could never figure why liberal was a dirty word to right wingers.And was never sure why you kept electing crazy religious whackos... But I've seen a few things lately that scared me, all i can says is....I know why most of y'all can't be arsed voting, I feel the same way here.....I refuse to waste the ink to endorse a single one of the wankers on offer (here than means various species of nazi and the local sewing circle).
TBH, this aint one for point scoring. Headscractching and futureproofing would be a beter pursuit.
It's of course everyone's right to abstain from voting, but when people do this en masse the extremists get in and scary things happen.
I think elections should be declared invalid and re-run if less than 75% of people vote (or maybe people should be compelled to vote).
Theres a whole brace of minority parties which are there for the minority opinion, but if everyone voted some of these smaller parties would have more influence.
I'm a pragmatic leftie... I voted Labour (Democrat) normally, but when they upset me by doing things like invading Iraq, I vote Green...
when was the last time 75% of the nation voted?
and whats the point in voting Green? do you not feel its a wasted vote? What would they do if they got in? nothing they don't have the foresight or the backing to plan for the big picture, has the Green party ever wona seat anywhere?
bLuE oRdEr wrote:
twist wrote: Look, it's not a political thing, it's FEMA's deal. They're the ones who messed it up, not Bush, not Kennedy, not anyone else.
But it is a political thing. Bush says it's not political because he's the fuckup who's responsible. As long as he can get people to believe that he's not the fuckup who's responsible, by saying "let's not play politics," then the buck ends up somewhere else: FEMA, mother nature, uppity black folks, anywhere but on his desk.
Heres' why it's political:
(1) Global warming. Bush has spent his entire presidency pretending it doesn't exist. He's fought tooth and nail to prevent the U.S. from taking any steps to slow down and reverse global warming. If it doesn't exist, you don't have to take any steps to stop it.
Here's what we know about global warming that's relevant to New Orleans: The Southeast coast of the U.S. is the most vulnerable part of the U.S. to global warming impacts. We can expect bigger storms, more often. Anybody who's read the scientific reports knows this. Bush asks how he could have known beforehand? He's a lying sack of shite.
Hurricanes have been happening since weather began-- about 6000 years now, according to the Bush crowd. It would be totally unfair to blame Bush for a hurricane. We've been headed for a global warming disaster since before Bush was born, so it would be totally unfair to blame Bush for causing global warming as well. BUT, Bush has worked vigorously to prevent the world's largest emitter of greenhouse gases from curbing its emissions. Clearly, he places the welfare of his oil and coal conies above the welfare of every living being on this planet. He's fiddled while the planet burns, so it is fair to blame him for the the devastation resulting from global warming.
(2) Flood control. Bush has cut flood control funding for New Orleans every single year since the Iraq vendetta. He asks how he could have known beforehand? FEMA-- the agency Bush wants to blame-- reported to him at the beginning of his presidency that the top 3 emergencies the U.S. faces are (1) a terrorist attack in New York City; (2) a hurricane in New orleans, and (3) an earthquake in San Francisco.
We've all seen how he sat around with his thumb up his ass while bin Laden sent terrorists to pilot school in Florida, and we've all seen how he sat around with his thumb up his ass while those same terrorists flew planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon.
Now we come to New Orleans, and he's cut flood control funding every year. $250 million in repairs were needed, but he sent that money to fund his family vendetta in Iraq instead. Meanwhile, he let his developer buddies build on the delta wetlands and barrier islands-- nature's flood control system. And Bush asks how he could have known?
San Francisco's next. Funny how the top 3 national emergency problems in the U.S.-- emergencies Bush has ignored-- are blue cities. And he says "Let's not play politics"?
(3) The disaster relief. Whether he likes it or not, Bush is the President, and thus responsible. If FEMA fucked up, it's still up to Bush to get the ball rolling. But he couldn't be bothered. No, he was busy vacationing at his ranch. Sure, he could interrupt his vacation to rush back to DC to intervene in the Terry Schiavo debacle, but interrupt his vacation to get the ball rolling on disaster relief for a few hundred thousand poor black people? The whole world saw what he did with that one. He kept right on vacationing.
When he finally did get off his candy ass and tour the area, he was dazed by what he saw. Why? He's the President-- why doesn't the President know what's going on in the worst disaster area the nation has ever witnessed? The rest of the world knew what was going on-- what's his excuse?
But what responsibility did the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO have? Seems to me that if your city is ripe for a natural disaster of this magnitude, and people have been saying this for years, some sort of plan should have been ready.
The plan is: (1) Make the flood control repairs; Bush spent the money on his family vendetta instead, and sent the rest as tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans; (2) FEMA coordinates emergency relief; FEMA is under Homeland Security, which reports to the President, so ultimately, Bush is the fuckup in charge.
The Governor can declare a state of emergency, which allows the federal government to begin relief efforts. The Governor did her job. The Governor can send in the National Guard-- except they're on duty in Bush's family vendetta.
The mayor can declare martial law. He did that. The mayor can deply the police. He did that. The mayor can ask for federal assistance. He did that.
While the mayor and Governor were doing their jobs, Bush was on vacation at his ranch.
Sitting on the roof top bitching about the Federal government not bailing your entitled ass out is not a plan. If my house is on fire my children know how to get the fuck out.
Some people are so poor that they don't have a car. Some people are so poor that they don't have money to put gas in a car. Some people don't know anybody who has the money to put gas in a car. Some people are so poor they can't buy a bus ticket or a train ticket to get out of town. Some people are old and sick and in wheelchairs.
Maybe we should blame them.
Now not everyone is able to leave a large city on 3 days notice. BUT the city and State should have had some system of evacuation of the poor, elderly and infirm.
And where does FEMA-- the Federal Emergency Management Agency-- fit into all of this disaster planning?
Barney Army wrote: It's a natural disater. Shit really does happen.
Shit happens, but Bush has known for years, and DID NOTHING. That's not a natural disaster-- it's a policy choice.
So, what was your boy billclinton doing for New Orleans for the eight years he was busy skull shagging Monica and having Ron Brown capped in the dome?
Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Administrations - federal, state and local - have ignored the problem of New Orleans being vulnerable to a catastrophic hurricane for the last 40 years.
And, there is PLENTY of blame to go around regarding response or the lack thereof between Bush, Blanco, the mayor and the police chief.
Jesus: the FSP/USA repost got a response. Its not the best critique, I aggree, but its nice to know that some pople on the left have principles and would not fellate a syphilitic camel in order to get near power.
Im begining to side with McDermott against the Liberals here (doubtless "extremists are all the same" thought processes will flow from the well dressed up simple minds here). When that starts happening, you know its time to stop posting opinions and keep pasting up whatever you feel like.
Hows my spelling? Phone: 1800:dead:
Tex wrote: And, there is PLENTY of blame to go around regarding response or the lack thereof between Bush, Blanco, the mayor and the police chief.
mayor nagin has been much angrier at governor blanco than at bush since their meeting in air force one last week. this tragedy has created some strange bedfellows!
it's everybody's fault, it's nobody's fault.... goodness.
Good one W! I think in that vein, I'll grade my own paper I'm submitting for graduation. And after graduation it's time for a job, where I'll be leading my annual performance reviews. 
AgentWood wrote: regarding point 1: washington, DC is one of america's poorest cities; tourism is a vital source of revenue for the city. turning the mall, the centerpiece of washington DC, into an emergency shelter would send the city into even greater debt and add to the already crushing poverty facing the city. it's not worth harming the poor of DC in order to make a political statement.
Not to mention using the victims of this disaster as political pawns. Never mind finding housing for these people-- let's just put them out on the mall in a big open-air camp for the next 3 years, so we can all embarass Bush. They probably won't mind, being poor and all.
Did anybody catch what dubya's mom said? She praised the hosiptality at the astrodome. She said that tthe poor people dont expect much. Cant find a link on the net!
CAKE - CLOCK - ZWART wrote: 5. Put a national price cap on gasoline, diesel, heating oil and natural gas, at a rate that slashes corporate profits by at least 75%.
Looks like this one's being proposed after all...
Another article-- which I can't find now-- stated that Democrats will be proposing gasoline price caps, and Republicans will be proposing drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
Here's another Democratic proposal:
bLuE oRdEr wrote:
AgentWood wrote: and i want christopher walken back.
I'd like to stay a bit longer...
but you're chaste.
I've just herd what a certain B B has had to say. I hope she's not had too much influence on her son, although it could explain the slow response.
On accomodating the dispaced in sporting arenas she said the following:
To quote loosly " Most of these people are unpriveliged anyway, so this is working quite well"
Yes it really is not too bad to be homeless many miles from home having lost all your posessions, and possibly even some members of your family and friends, and having no privacy.
leeharveyoswaldR.I.P1963 wrote: Did anybody catch what dubya's mom said? She praised the hosiptality at the astrodome. She said that tthe poor people dont expect much. Cant find a link on the net!
My apologies I did not see this utill after I did the above post.
patrick stewart appreciation society wrote:
digitalwaters wrote:
Steve Campbell wrote: Took me a long time to work out what was up with the US left. Could never figure why liberal was a dirty word to right wingers.And was never sure why you kept electing crazy religious whackos... But I've seen a few things lately that scared me, all i can says is....I know why most of y'all can't be arsed voting, I feel the same way here.....I refuse to waste the ink to endorse a single one of the wankers on offer (here than means various species of nazi and the local sewing circle).
TBH, this aint one for point scoring. Headscractching and futureproofing would be a beter pursuit.
It's of course everyone's right to abstain from voting, but when people do this en masse the extremists get in and scary things happen.
I think elections should be declared invalid and re-run if less than 75% of people vote (or maybe people should be compelled to vote).
Theres a whole brace of minority parties which are there for the minority opinion, but if everyone voted some of these smaller parties would have more influence.
I'm a pragmatic leftie... I voted Labour (Democrat) normally, but when they upset me by doing things like invading Iraq, I vote Green...
when was the last time 75% of the nation voted?
and whats the point in voting Green? do you not feel its a wasted vote? What would they do if they got in? nothing they don't have the foresight or the backing to plan for the big picture, has the Green party ever wona seat anywhere?
Last time 75% voted? Turnout in the 1992 election was 82% (if you are talking abou the UK). Turnouts of around 75% or higher have pretty much been the norm in the UK, right up until 97 and 2001 when it plummeted. 2001 was the first time below 70%. Presumably because of the absence of meaningful ideological differences between parties post the death of socialism.
Not that I agree with all their policies, but the Greens do have quite a few seats on the London assembly.
And anyway, what's the point of voting Tory (hopeless losers), Lib Dem (hopeless opportunists, stand for nothing) or Labour (spineless puppets of big business), for that matter?
in america if an election with a turnout of less than 75% was declared invalid, we would still be determining the winner of the nixon/kennedy election of 1960.
One of the missing Aussies has been found in a police cell. Aparently he had been arrested for being drunk and disorderly before K hit. A true Aussie hero. Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi.
Still 6 Australians missing.
Ronald Kirsch wrote:
leeharveyoswaldR.I.P1963 wrote: Did anybody catch what dubya's mom said? She praised the hosiptality at the astrodome. She said that tthe poor people dont expect much. Cant find a link on the net!
My apologies I did not see this utill after I did the above post.
You can always count on a rich old cunt to bare her fangs as she cackles about the poor getting fucked over.
bLuE oRdEr wrote:
Ronald Kirsch wrote:
leeharveyoswaldR.I.P1963 wrote: Did anybody catch what dubya's mom said? She praised the hosiptality at the astrodome. She said that tthe poor people dont expect much. Cant find a link on the net!
My apologies I did not see this utill after I did the above post.
You can always count on a rich old cunt to bare her fangs as she cackles about the poor getting fucked over.
man, i have always wanted to live in a shelter for months on end. and the astrodome is pretty nice, i hear. i'm pretty open, so i don't need privacy or anything. you'd get to meet some interesting people there, too, what with all the cots in rows. and all the kids could play together. sounds like paradise to me.
Ronald Kirsch wrote: do they need/deserve bathrooms?
during my camping excursions i've found that a deeply dug pit always works well.
AgentWood wrote:
Ronald Kirsch wrote: do they need/deserve bathrooms?
during my camping excursions i've found that a deeply dug pit always works well.
I'm a male, so any Bush will do.
Rush Limbaugh said that it is not the federal government's job to get involved in people's lives and save them ... Bush is all about making the federal government smaller and less involved in citizen's lives
all this talk about what the government saving people is just liberal welfare state bullshit
it's so funny how the rhetoric changes to fit any situation
pumped full of drugs wrote: Rush Limbaugh said that it is not the federal government's job to get involved in people's lives and save them ...
Unless they're the wealthiest 1%, that is. Because unlike the majority of Americans, they need all the Government assistance they can get.
Ronald Kirsch wrote:
AgentWood wrote:
Ronald Kirsch wrote: do they need/deserve bathrooms?
during my camping excursions i've found that a deeply dug pit always works well.
I'm a male, so any Bush will do.
:D
The Feds *can't* go in until asked, and must still have just about their every action approved at the State level, unless the State cedes authority over the emergency to the Feds. That, in a nutshell, is what created the bureaucratic mess that is/was southern Louisiana. The Governor was bitching about the lack of federal response, and the red tape that she had to go through to get federal agencies to respond. That was a problem of her own making, for she refused to let the Feds have free reign regarding the response.
I finding it funny that those that hate Bush the most, those that hate the loss of freedom since 9/11 and say that Rumsfeld and the DHS is taking over are the very same people that expected 30,000 US military troops on the scene withing 5 minutes of the wind stopping and the water flooding.
72 hours to get a trickle of help to Homestead after Andrew left 250,000 homeless in 1992. The disaster area significantly less than Katrina.
I bet the amount of bitching would be almost nil if the US was not so fucking politically polarized at the moment. Making this a political issue and will only hurt those bitching. The left should be happy that Bush did not appear like Apollo moments after the levees burst. Had he been there the Democratic Party would have little choice but to disband. I doubt they will do well when Bush's term is up.
twist wrote: The Feds *can't* go in until asked, and must still have just about their every action approved at the State level, unless the State cedes authority over the emergency to the Feds. That, in a nutshell, is what created the bureaucratic mess that is/was southern Louisiana. The Governor was bitching about the lack of federal response, and the red tape that she had to go through to get federal agencies to respond. That was a problem of her own making, for she refused to let the Feds have free reign regarding the response.
good point. as i mentioned in another post, governor blanco wanted to wait 24 hours to decide what to do when mayor nagin and president bush were ready to take immediate action (several days after the hurricane, granted).
twist wrote: The Feds *can't* go in until asked, and must still have just about their every action approved at the State level, unless the State cedes authority over the emergency to the Feds. That, in a nutshell, is what created the bureaucratic mess that is/was southern Louisiana. The Governor was bitching about the lack of federal response, and the red tape that she had to go through to get federal agencies to respond. That was a problem of her own making, for she refused to let the Feds have free reign regarding the response.
Worthy of an investigation. Too bad this country won't get one.
I finding it funny that those that hate Bush the most, those that hate the loss of freedom since 9/11 and say that Rumsfeld and the DHS is taking over are the very same people that expected 30,000 US military troops on the scene withing 5 minutes of the wind stopping and the water flooding.
Erm, given a choice between losing both the Bill of Rights and disaster relief, OR keeping both the Bill of Rights and disaster relief, I'll go for door #2. Funny, innit?
72 hours to get a trickle of help to Homestead after Andrew left 250,000 homeless in 1992. The disaster area significantly less than Katrina.
Typical when the President's name is George Bush.
I bet the amount of bitching would be almost nil if the US was not so fucking politically polarized at the moment. Making this a political issue and will only hurt those bitching.
The left should be happy that Bush did not appear like Apollo moments after the levees burst. Had he been there the Democratic Party would have little choice but to disband. I doubt they will do well when Bush's term is up.
patrick stewart appreciation society wrote:
digitalwaters wrote:
Steve Campbell wrote: Took me a long time to work out what was up with the US left. Could never figure why liberal was a dirty word to right wingers.And was never sure why you kept electing crazy religious whackos... But I've seen a few things lately that scared me, all i can says is....I know why most of y'all can't be arsed voting, I feel the same way here.....I refuse to waste the ink to endorse a single one of the wankers on offer (here than means various species of nazi and the local sewing circle).
TBH, this aint one for point scoring. Headscractching and futureproofing would be a beter pursuit.
It's of course everyone's right to abstain from voting, but when people do this en masse the extremists get in and scary things happen.
I think elections should be declared invalid and re-run if less than 75% of people vote (or maybe people should be compelled to vote).
Theres a whole brace of minority parties which are there for the minority opinion, but if everyone voted some of these smaller parties would have more influence.
I'm a pragmatic leftie... I voted Labour (Democrat) normally, but when they upset me by doing things like invading Iraq, I vote Green...
when was the last time 75% of the nation voted?
and whats the point in voting Green? do you not feel its a wasted vote? What would they do if they got in? nothing they don't have the foresight or the backing to plan for the big picture, has the Green party ever wona seat anywhere?
Yep, they've won seats in Europe.
The point of voting is that they push the sustainable development agenda.
I went to see Caroline Lucas speak in Dublin, and she was very good. One of the few people Ive seen speak with clarity on Europe. The British Green party is very good. Its taxation policies are fantastic, and it has more of a class analysis than New Labour - and even elemetns of Old Labour.
Basically, the Uk greens are very different from Fischer and most other EU greens (including our own here in Ireland).
If Bush was wondering if the effects of global warming are real, he may get to feel one very direct effect; that of losing his presidency!
:\party: :\party: :\party: :\party: :\party:
If Bush was wondering if the effects of global warming are real, he may get to feel one very direct effect; that of losing his presidency!
The last president to be impeached was able to finish his term. Bush cannot run for his office again without suspending or amending the Constitution. Of course Bush was trying to do this. Look at the Superdome. Bush lured and trapped 4 million negros and democrats in this terrordome and was ready to have them all killed. Once this voting block was eliminated he would be able to turn LA into a red state, change the Constituion and continue the Blitzkrieg in the Middle East. Unfortunately, CNN, Celine Dion, Sean Penn and CNN called FEMA.
bLuE oRdEr wrote:
pumped full of drugs wrote: Rush Limbaugh said that it is not the federal government's job to get involved in people's lives and save them ...
Unless they're the wealthiest 1%, that is. Because unlike the majority of Americans, they need all the Government assistance they can get.
And wasn't 'getting involved in people's lives and saving them' the justification for invading Iraq, btw?
Is there actually an ideological conflict within this administration, between neocons who want to use government power to remould the world and other conservatives who claim to want to reduce government involvement?
AgentWood wrote:
bLuE oRdEr wrote:
Ronald Kirsch wrote:
leeharveyoswaldR.I.P1963 wrote: Did anybody catch what dubya's mom said? She praised the hosiptality at the astrodome. She said that tthe poor people dont expect much. Cant find a link on the net!
My apologies I did not see this utill after I did the above post.
You can always count on a rich old cunt to bare her fangs as she cackles about the poor getting fucked over.
man, i have always wanted to live in a shelter for months on end. and the astrodome is pretty nice, i hear. i'm pretty open, so i don't need privacy or anything. you'd get to meet some interesting people there, too, what with all the cots in rows. and all the kids could play together. sounds like paradise to me.
and don't forget...the Astrodome is in the middle of one of the poshest neighborhoods in Houston...
Seriously, how bad is the neighborhood of the Astrodome? The United Center (Chicago) is an upper ghetto elite area.
Well...back in the day, the only neighborhood worse was the Fifth Ward....
but just talked to a friend of mine in Houston, and she says that with all the new development going on around the Astrodome, it's not nearly as bad as it was say 5 years ago...
so looks like I might have been WRONG!!!
I feel the need to enlighten some people on the facts regarding laying so much blame on the federal govt and on Pres Bush. I live in Baton Rouge, LA the capitol city about 60 miles west of New Orleans. I think that first of all there will be plenty of blame to go around from the local municipal govt of New Orleans on up to the President. But, it is completely careless to blame this all on the federal govt and especially the incumbent president. First of all, this has been an issue in New Orleans since the levee and pump systems were installed. Many other presidents and mayors and Louisiana governors were neglectful before the present administration even took office in 2000. Now just to let everyone know, in 1995 the federal government allocated 3 BILLION dollars to the municipality of New Orleans to assist with the strengthening and expansion of the levee system. At that time, this tragedy could have been prevented under the watchful eye of President Clinton. In fact, the local govt of New Orleans was in essence braggin about having the funds available to fix the levee. Now the real tragedy happened. In 1998 the same local govt agency who was braggin about having the funds to fix the levee used only 1.9 million dollars of the funds towards strengthening levees and updating pumping stations. Effectively, the money for the levee was squandered and even returned to the federal govt going unused. Don't be so quick to blame Bush for EVERYTHING. He will have plenty of blame to SHARE with Local municpal and state governments.
Shad Starns wrote: I feel the need to enlighten some people on the facts regarding laying so much blame on the federal govt and on Pres Bush. I live in Baton Rouge, LA the capitol city about 60 miles west of New Orleans. I think that first of all there will be plenty of blame to go around from the local municipal govt of New Orleans on up to the President. But, it is completely careless to blame this all on the federal govt and especially the incumbent president. First of all, this has been an issue in New Orleans since the levee and pump systems were installed. Many other presidents and mayors and Louisiana governors were neglectful before the present administration even took office in 2000. Now just to let everyone know, in 1995 the federal government allocated 3 BILLION dollars to the municipality of New Orleans to assist with the strengthening and expansion of the levee system. At that time, this tragedy could have been prevented under the watchful eye of President Clinton. In fact, the local govt of New Orleans was in essence braggin about having the funds available to fix the levee. Now the real tragedy happened. In 1998 the same local govt agency who was braggin about having the funds to fix the levee used only 1.9 million dollars of the funds towards strengthening levees and updating pumping stations. Effectively, the money for the levee was squandered and even returned to the federal govt going unused. Don't be so quick to blame Bush for EVERYTHING. He will have plenty of blame to SHARE with Local municpal and state governments.
how are things holding up in baton rouge? i hear the population has doubled to almost 800,000?
bLuE oRdEr wrote: God Outdoes Terrorists Yet Again
apparently i'm not authorized to view the page. them dodgy people at the onion!
I don't know what's up with that. I've tried several times...maybe they're discouraging links? 
i managed to get in the old-fashioned way. my favourite story is the one about how the restaurant once known for serving famous shrimp jambalaya is now home to that particular type of shrimp.
bLuE oRdEr wrote: I'm still having trouble...But I like the one about the federal government moseyin' on in.
it takes a few tries.
the moseyin': michael smith rockin' on his porch commenting on the 'mighty hot day.' all they were missing was a mint julep, i do declare.
the saints article was damn funny, as well. 'another saints season runied before it begins.'
Baton Rouge has become unbearable nearly. The traffic which was already a problem has become an hour drivetime for just the shortest commute. Hospitals are overloaded with patients, shelters are overloaded, there is not a hotel room to be found for ages, and our native Baton Rouge folks cannot get an apartment or condo because FEMA has bought all the vacancies for 3 years. So, if a young person was wanting to move out of mom and dad's house to live on their own...not gonna happen for a LONG LONG time. Our police are being overwhelmed by the influx of people and our public assistance centers are clogged to capacity from 7 am to midnight with people applying or receiving government assistance. I am a home health nurse and I am finding that we are getting so many patients who fled their homes leaving behind medications and medical records. It is nearly impossible to admit these people into our care with no vital information not to mention that the physicians taking care of these people are unable to be reached or found for that matter. Baton Rouge is carrying the major load of the relief in this ordeal and I hope that everyone in my hometown steps up. And this whole racial divide that Black Americans are trying to drudge up is a bunch of BULLSHIT. I am a white upper-middle class American which makes me in the eyes of black americans the enemy who is trying to keep them down. I tell you the truth, I was volunteering my nursing services in Baton Rouge at the medical triage facility and as I looked around I saw blacks helping whites, whites helping blacks and any other combination that you can imagine. So, I don't want to hear about the FICTIONAL race issue with the relief and response. Anyways, remember to pray for the good people and citizens of Baton Rouge too who are trying to provide relief, hope, medical attention, and good will for those victims.
Best of luck to you and others Shad in dealing with this difficult sitaution, and thanks again for the reminder that life down there for everybody will not return to "normal" for a very, very long time, even after NO is drained of the toxic water.
shad, thanks for what you're doing up there in baton rouge, now one of our nation's largest cities. and for giving us insight into what's happenng from the perspective of a person who actually lives in the region.
as for the black/white issue, over the past weeks i've seen many cases where blacks have save whites and whites have saved blacks. i think the people involved in this tragedy need to speak out more (as they are slowly getting airtime while they get arranged in shelters and temporary homes). as for how the government (on all levels) dealt with this as a race issue, this remains to be seen. but i do think this is opening wounds that seem to heal but are torn open again every few years by an incident such as new orleans, rodney king, etc. this is the problem which must be addressed. i still feel race and class are an issue, because most of the poor were black. that's not unique to new orleans, but to american cities everywhere. it's not a problem that went away in the 1960s.
My State's governor has been trying to get displaced New Orlinians since day 3. I think he was able to get about 16 last check.
Shad Starns wrote: And this whole racial divide that Black Americans are trying to drudge up is a bunch of BULLSHIT. I am a white upper-middle class American which makes me in the eyes of black americans the enemy who is trying to keep them down. I tell you the truth, I was volunteering my nursing services in Baton Rouge at the medical triage facility and as I looked around I saw blacks helping whites, whites helping blacks and any other combination that you can imagine. So, I don't want to hear about the FICTIONAL race issue with the relief and response.
Erm, avert your ears?
The media reported extensively on looting; but in two separate photos on Yahoo, the language varied depending upon the race of the people involved:
White people "find" their food in New Orleans
Black people "loot" their food in New Orleans
Interestingly, the photo of white people “finding” their food has been removed from Yahoo, while the photo of black people “looting” their food remains. And you maintain that racial issues are “fictional”?
That aside, I heard from a classmate-- a white classmate-- who has family and friends in the area. His Parish is 80% white, and they were all waioting for the feds to show up too. So I doubt that the lack of response was due to race.
However, think about it. We all have setbacks in life. We don't get into the school we wanted, or we don't get the job we wanted, we don't get a loan we applied for, the apartment was rented to somebody else, some asshole just doesn't like the way we look... It happens to everybody. But not all of us have to deal with the occasional overtly racist comment, or the baseball bat-wielding racist who wants to bash our head in because we just stepped into a "white" neighborhood, or the store personnel who follow us around as we shop. Every black American has had to deal with that at some point in their life. Can you honestly say, as a white person, that if you were black and HAD had to deal with racism in your life, that you wouldn't wonder sometimes? That you wouldn't wonder if some asshole who's making your life difficult just doesn't like YOU, or just doesn't like black people? That you wouldn't wonder, as you're left behind to die while the President poses for photo ops, and you look around and see mostly black faces, if it MIGHT be because you're black? I’m white, so I don’t know what I’d think, but it makes me wonder.
What's REALLY at issue, in my opinion, is class. That's the one subject America CAN'T talk about. Case in point being your assertion that you're upper-middle class. I don't know you from Adam, and you may very well be upper-middle class for all I know, but I seriously doubt it. I know what nurses make, and it's nowhere near enough to put them in the upper-middle class:
So maybe you have other assets that put you in the upper-middle class, but I suspect if you're like most Americans, you think of yourself as belonging to a higher social strata than is actually the case. Hell, I do it. I think of myself as middle class, when I have a net worth of zero. It's my education that keeps me from self-identifying as lower class. The point is, Americans are totally delusional about class issues; that delusion is at least one of the reasons Americans consistently vote against their class interests.
And that delusion is what allows some of us to wonder why some people stayed behind and died when they should have left.
CAKE - CLOCK - ZWART wrote:
- Institute a massive public works program and start building housing immediately. Hire the displaced at union wages, and provide relocation allowances and training.
Freedom Socialist Party Statement on the Hurricane Katrina Tragedy
bLuE oRdEr wrote:
CAKE - CLOCK - ZWART wrote:
- Institute a massive public works program and start building housing immediately. Hire the displaced at union wages, and provide relocation allowances and training.
Freedom Socialist Party Statement on the Hurricane Katrina Tragedy
a quote from the op-ed piece:
'If Mr. Bush does not rescind his proclamation voluntarily, Congress should pass a law forcing him to do so.'
as if.
Policemen and soldiers ignore corpses rotting in the streets... they even refuse to take care of them. I thought that shame whould have stopped once the forces would have got into the city, but it's an even bigger shame now. I wouldn't bury a rotting corpse myself, but if soldiers are leaving it in the street, who will remove it or order anyone to do it? I'd do that if I was a soldier, or I might as well go back home. In fact I've seen "God help us" written on the grave of a woman buried by her neighbours because no one else, soldier or policeman, wanted to touch her. It looks worse than Sarajevo or Rwanda, and it's fookin America. Anyway even Bush isn't hiding the problems by now, he's just trying to blame someone else. But defending him is totally useless, if I was a Republican I'd be ashamed of him and I'd just wish my party finds another leader soon.
a new letter from the famous lefty
To All My Fellow Americans Who Voted for George W. Bush:
On this, the fourth anniversary of 9/11, I'm just curious, how does it feel?
How does it feel to know that the man you elected to lead us after we were attacked went ahead and put a guy in charge of FEMA whose main qualification was that he ran horse shows?
That's right. Horse shows.
I really want to know -- and I ask you this in all sincerity and with all due respect -- how do you feel about the utter contempt Mr. Bush has shown for your safety? C'mon, give me just a moment of honesty. Don't start ranting on about how this disaster in New Orleans was the fault of one of the poorest cities in America. Put aside your hatred of Democrats and liberals and anyone with the last name of Clinton. Just look me in the eye and tell me our President did the right thing after 9/11 by naming a horse show runner as the top man to protect us in case of an emergency or catastrophe.
I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.
Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse show runner, the #2 and #3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have zero experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?
When you look at Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, a man with little experience in national security, do you feel secure?
When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men die in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know how to conduct a war? Do they know what it means to have your legs blown off for a threat that was never there?
Do you really believe that turning over important government services to private corporations has resulted in better services for the people?
Why do you hate our federal government so much? You have voted for politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the federal government. Do you think that cutting federal programs like FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers has been good or bad for America? GOOD OR BAD?
With the nation's debt at an all-time high, do you think tax cuts for the rich are still a good idea? Will you give yours back so hundreds of thousands of homeless in New Orleans can have a home?
Do you believe in Jesus? Really? Didn't he say that we would be judged by how we treat the least among us? Hurricane Katrina came in and blew off the facade that we were a nation with liberty and justice for all. The wind howled and the water rose and what was revealed was that the poor in America shall be left to suffer and die while the President of the United States fiddles and tells them to eat cake.
That's not a joke. The day the hurricane hit and the levees broke, Mr. Bush, John McCain and their rich pals were stuffing themselves with cake. A full day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding he had cut), Mr. Bush was playing a guitar some country singer gave him. All this while New Orleans sank under water.
It would take ANOTHER day before the President would do a flyover in his jumbo jet, peeking out the widow at the misery 2500 feet below him as he flew back to his second home in DC. It would then be TWO MORE DAYS before a trickle of federal aid and troops would arrive. This was no seven minutes in a sitting trance while children read "My Pet Goat" to him. This was FOUR DAYS of doing nothing other than saying "Brownie (FEMA director Michael Brown), you're doing a heck of a job!"
My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock of the world?
And on this sacred day of remembrance, do you think we honor or shame those who died on 9/11/01? If we learned nothing and find ourselves today every bit as vulnerable and unprepared as we were on that bright sunny morning, then did the 3,000 die in vain?
Our vulnerability is not just about dealing with terrorists or natural disasters. We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight Americans to live in horrible poverty. We accept an education system where one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't string a coherent sentence together. The middle class can't pay the mortgage or the hospital bills and 45 million have no health coverage whatsoever.
Are we safe? Do you really feel safe? You can only move so far out and build so many gated communities before the fruit of what you've sown will be crashing through your walls and demanding retribution. Do you really want to wait until that happens? Or is it your hope that if they are left alone long enough to soil themselves and shoot themselves and drown in the filth that fills the street that maybe the problem will somehow go away?
I know you know better. You gave the country and the world a man who wasn't up for the job and all he does is hire people who aren't up for the job. You did this to us, to the world, to the people of New Orleans. Please fix it. Bush is yours. And you know, for our peace and safety and security, this has to be fixed. What do you propose?
I have an idea, and it isn't a horse show.
Yours,
Michael Moore www.michaelmoore.com mmflint@aol.com
Mick Aneworderfan wrote:
Anyway even Bush isn't hiding the problems by now, he's just trying to blame someone else. But defending him is totally useless, if I was a Republican I'd be ashamed of him and I'd just wish my party finds another leader soon.
Some Republicans fall on their swords...
and some Republicans fall back on their smirks...
"The president ducked questions about Brown's resignation. "Maybe you know something I don't know. I've been working."
"The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne." For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 2002. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three."
At least Mike Brown resigned, I hope he made that decision himself out of shame. I'm sure he tried with the resources he had... who knows, maybe he asked his superiors for help and they did not take him seriously or maybe he didn't have the guts to ask for help, I dunno...
... but Brown was given the job because he was a friend of Bush and he reportedly no longer had his fancy horse job. when you put somebody in a position in which many lives are at stake and alot of federal money is at stake, I would hope you hire somebody with at least a lot of similar managerial experience, if not direct command experience, at least that is what I would think...
... but of course, Bush voters elected a man president with virtually NO MANAGEMENT EXPERIENCE IN ANYTHING, or any experience of having a job with any responsibility... what do you expect... seriously?
for those still interested in helping one of the more recommended ways is to donate to the american red cross disaster relief fund. the company i work for is matching our donations dollar for dollar and our ceo said he and his wife would match the employee donations and then the company would double that. my mom has been making personal care kits, washcloth, soap, deoderant, toothpaste, toothbrush, women's personal care items and taking them to some organization that was shipping them to houston.
locally, jacksonville has some evacuees and there are hotels here that have, 'katrina evacuees stay free' posted outside and i know that the duval county school board has offered to hire teachers immediately without the usual bureaucracy and two have been hired so far.
i admittedly paid little attention to events while i was on vacation in the uk, on the 29th i was in south laggan, scotland - if there was a tv where i was staying, then i was watching eastenders or coronation street. the next day i was in invermoriston and still hadn't a clue until someone heard me order a tea and asked where i was from and made mention of a hurricane, but i wasn't inclined to go to the news because they said it was in louisiana and i didn't have any immediate fear because i don't have any friends or family anywhere near new orleans and the guy that mentioned the hurricane didn't relay the enormity of it, it just sounded like some bad whether and i've been in the outer perimer of one hurricane (here) and in the path of one hurricane (north carolina) so far, and my experience was the lights go out for a couple of days, it's gets warm, the debris gets cleaned up and then the lights come back on and it's back to work.
didn't check the news on the 31st either when i got to drumnadrochit but when i got to inverness the next day, i checked in early and watched the bbc news and realized it was unfolding to be a nightmare. over and over again, it was asked, how can this happen in the united states the world's richest most powerful country? the bbc did a good job of trying to explain the enormity of it, that the area was larger their country, one reporter described it as, 'imagine a hurricane making landfall in the south and then running up all of the uk destroying everything in its path' - the footage was horrifying, i even thought 'how could this be happening in the u.s.?' and then, this footage is playing all over the globe - look at what the world is seeing as we fail all these people.
i appreciate the depth of links and feedback on these posts, it actually let me catch up and understand what occurred in the days following landfall of the hurricane.
this american life had an interesting segment on new orleans events this past weekend, it's well worth a listen - after the flood
symphonie--check out my thread somewhere at the bottom of this page (or maybe on the next) for all florida NOOLers. there are probably more shelters up your way than in the orlando area.
Twist, as Symphonie has written, the previous hurricanes have been quite a different experience from this. I think America has never seen anything like this but what's more worrying is that it seems there's no preparation at all to face huge emergencies with basic tasks: food, water, medicines, removal of rotting corpses. I wonder if you were there waiting for days for anything and only journalists arrived (why them and not the soldiers?!) would you be so patient? Hopefully Bush has learnt the lesson: you're defending a man who has finally admitted his faults. Hopefully he will re-organize the whole thing by scratch and will set up a long term plan to help the people involved in this tragedy and rebuild a city for everyone. Though I still think he should fuck off. After having seen a useless war in Iraq and a city of the USA looking like Rwanda I just wonder what else we must get prepared to see before 2009. I'm fookin scared actually. I'm sick of Bush's tragic mistakes and anyone in the western world could be his next victim. Remove the idiot from the White House before we see even worse!
we can blame whoever we want. now let's focus on prevention and be proactive. i think this is something people of all political persuasions can agree on.
