New Orleans...wtf?

shad, thanks for what you're doing up there in baton rouge, now one of our nation's largest cities. and for giving us insight into what's happenng from the perspective of a person who actually lives in the region.

as for the black/white issue, over the past weeks i've seen many cases where blacks have save whites and whites have saved blacks. i think the people involved in this tragedy need to speak out more (as they are slowly getting airtime while they get arranged in shelters and temporary homes). as for how the government (on all levels) dealt with this as a race issue, this remains to be seen. but i do think this is opening wounds that seem to heal but are torn open again every few years by an incident such as new orleans, rodney king, etc. this is the problem which must be addressed. i still feel race and class are an issue, because most of the poor were black. that's not unique to new orleans, but to american cities everywhere. it's not a problem that went away in the 1960s.

My State's governor has been trying to get displaced New Orlinians since day 3. I think he was able to get about 16 last check.

Shad Starns wrote: And this whole racial divide that Black Americans are trying to drudge up is a bunch of BULLSHIT. I am a white upper-middle class American which makes me in the eyes of black americans the enemy who is trying to keep them down. I tell you the truth, I was volunteering my nursing services in Baton Rouge at the medical triage facility and as I looked around I saw blacks helping whites, whites helping blacks and any other combination that you can imagine. So, I don't want to hear about the FICTIONAL race issue with the relief and response.

Erm, avert your ears?

The media reported extensively on looting; but in two separate photos on Yahoo, the language varied depending upon the race of the people involved:

White people "find" their food in New Orleans

Black people "loot" their food in New Orleans

Interestingly, the photo of white people “finding” their food has been removed from Yahoo, while the photo of black people “looting” their food remains. And you maintain that racial issues are “fictional”?

That aside, I heard from a classmate-- a white classmate-- who has family and friends in the area. His Parish is 80% white, and they were all waioting for the feds to show up too. So I doubt that the lack of response was due to race.

However, think about it. We all have setbacks in life. We don't get into the school we wanted, or we don't get the job we wanted, we don't get a loan we applied for, the apartment was rented to somebody else, some asshole just doesn't like the way we look... It happens to everybody. But not all of us have to deal with the occasional overtly racist comment, or the baseball bat-wielding racist who wants to bash our head in because we just stepped into a "white" neighborhood, or the store personnel who follow us around as we shop. Every black American has had to deal with that at some point in their life. Can you honestly say, as a white person, that if you were black and HAD had to deal with racism in your life, that you wouldn't wonder sometimes? That you wouldn't wonder if some asshole who's making your life difficult just doesn't like YOU, or just doesn't like black people? That you wouldn't wonder, as you're left behind to die while the President poses for photo ops, and you look around and see mostly black faces, if it MIGHT be because you're black? I’m white, so I don’t know what I’d think, but it makes me wonder.

What's REALLY at issue, in my opinion, is class. That's the one subject America CAN'T talk about. Case in point being your assertion that you're upper-middle class. I don't know you from Adam, and you may very well be upper-middle class for all I know, but I seriously doubt it. I know what nurses make, and it's nowhere near enough to put them in the upper-middle class:

"A net worth- what a person's total material assets are worth, minus their debt. Most economists define "middle class" citizens as those with net worths of between $25,000 (low-middle class) to $250,000. Those with net worths between $250,000 and $500,000 typically are categorized as upper-middle-class."

So maybe you have other assets that put you in the upper-middle class, but I suspect if you're like most Americans, you think of yourself as belonging to a higher social strata than is actually the case. Hell, I do it. I think of myself as middle class, when I have a net worth of zero. It's my education that keeps me from self-identifying as lower class. The point is, Americans are totally delusional about class issues; that delusion is at least one of the reasons Americans consistently vote against their class interests.

And that delusion is what allows some of us to wonder why some people stayed behind and died when they should have left.

CAKE - CLOCK - ZWART wrote:

2. Institute a massive public works program and start building housing immediately. Hire the displaced at union wages, and provide relocation allowances and training.

Freedom Socialist Party Statement on the Hurricane Katrina Tragedy

So much for paying union wages

bLuE oRdEr wrote:

CAKE - CLOCK - ZWART wrote:

2. Institute a massive public works program and start building housing immediately. Hire the displaced at union wages, and provide relocation allowances and training.

Freedom Socialist Party Statement on the Hurricane Katrina Tragedy

So much for paying union wages

a quote from the op-ed piece:

'If Mr. Bush does not rescind his proclamation voluntarily, Congress should pass a law forcing him to do so.'

as if.

Policemen and soldiers ignore corpses rotting in the streets... they even refuse to take care of them. I thought that shame whould have stopped once the forces would have got into the city, but it's an even bigger shame now. I wouldn't bury a rotting corpse myself, but if soldiers are leaving it in the street, who will remove it or order anyone to do it? I'd do that if I was a soldier, or I might as well go back home. In fact I've seen "God help us" written on the grave of a woman buried by her neighbours because no one else, soldier or policeman, wanted to touch her. It looks worse than Sarajevo or Rwanda, and it's fookin America. Anyway even Bush isn't hiding the problems by now, he's just trying to blame someone else. But defending him is totally useless, if I was a Republican I'd be ashamed of him and I'd just wish my party finds another leader soon.

a new letter from the famous lefty

To All My Fellow Americans Who Voted for George W. Bush:

On this, the fourth anniversary of 9/11, I'm just curious, how does it feel?

How does it feel to know that the man you elected to lead us after we were attacked went ahead and put a guy in charge of FEMA whose main qualification was that he ran horse shows?

That's right. Horse shows.

I really want to know -- and I ask you this in all sincerity and with all due respect -- how do you feel about the utter contempt Mr. Bush has shown for your safety? C'mon, give me just a moment of honesty. Don't start ranting on about how this disaster in New Orleans was the fault of one of the poorest cities in America. Put aside your hatred of Democrats and liberals and anyone with the last name of Clinton. Just look me in the eye and tell me our President did the right thing after 9/11 by naming a horse show runner as the top man to protect us in case of an emergency or catastrophe.

I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.

Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse show runner, the #2 and #3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have zero experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?

When you look at Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, a man with little experience in national security, do you feel secure?

When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men die in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know how to conduct a war? Do they know what it means to have your legs blown off for a threat that was never there?

Do you really believe that turning over important government services to private corporations has resulted in better services for the people?

Why do you hate our federal government so much? You have voted for politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the federal government. Do you think that cutting federal programs like FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers has been good or bad for America? GOOD OR BAD?

With the nation's debt at an all-time high, do you think tax cuts for the rich are still a good idea? Will you give yours back so hundreds of thousands of homeless in New Orleans can have a home?

Do you believe in Jesus? Really? Didn't he say that we would be judged by how we treat the least among us? Hurricane Katrina came in and blew off the facade that we were a nation with liberty and justice for all. The wind howled and the water rose and what was revealed was that the poor in America shall be left to suffer and die while the President of the United States fiddles and tells them to eat cake.

That's not a joke. The day the hurricane hit and the levees broke, Mr. Bush, John McCain and their rich pals were stuffing themselves with cake. A full day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding he had cut), Mr. Bush was playing a guitar some country singer gave him. All this while New Orleans sank under water.

It would take ANOTHER day before the President would do a flyover in his jumbo jet, peeking out the widow at the misery 2500 feet below him as he flew back to his second home in DC. It would then be TWO MORE DAYS before a trickle of federal aid and troops would arrive. This was no seven minutes in a sitting trance while children read "My Pet Goat" to him. This was FOUR DAYS of doing nothing other than saying "Brownie (FEMA director Michael Brown), you're doing a heck of a job!"

My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock of the world?

And on this sacred day of remembrance, do you think we honor or shame those who died on 9/11/01? If we learned nothing and find ourselves today every bit as vulnerable and unprepared as we were on that bright sunny morning, then did the 3,000 die in vain?

Our vulnerability is not just about dealing with terrorists or natural disasters. We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight Americans to live in horrible poverty. We accept an education system where one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't string a coherent sentence together. The middle class can't pay the mortgage or the hospital bills and 45 million have no health coverage whatsoever.

Are we safe? Do you really feel safe? You can only move so far out and build so many gated communities before the fruit of what you've sown will be crashing through your walls and demanding retribution. Do you really want to wait until that happens? Or is it your hope that if they are left alone long enough to soil themselves and shoot themselves and drown in the filth that fills the street that maybe the problem will somehow go away?

I know you know better. You gave the country and the world a man who wasn't up for the job and all he does is hire people who aren't up for the job. You did this to us, to the world, to the people of New Orleans. Please fix it. Bush is yours. And you know, for our peace and safety and security, this has to be fixed. What do you propose?

I have an idea, and it isn't a horse show.

Yours,

Michael Moore www.michaelmoore.com mmflint@aol.com

Mick Aneworderfan wrote:

Anyway even Bush isn't hiding the problems by now, he's just trying to blame someone else. But defending him is totally useless, if I was a Republican I'd be ashamed of him and I'd just wish my party finds another leader soon.

Some Republicans fall on their swords...

and some Republicans fall back on their smirks...

"The president ducked questions about Brown's resignation. "Maybe you know something I don't know. I've been working."

"The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne." For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 2002. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three."

Slow down they're democrats

At least Mike Brown resigned, I hope he made that decision himself out of shame. I'm sure he tried with the resources he had... who knows, maybe he asked his superiors for help and they did not take him seriously or maybe he didn't have the guts to ask for help, I dunno...

... but Brown was given the job because he was a friend of Bush and he reportedly no longer had his fancy horse job. when you put somebody in a position in which many lives are at stake and alot of federal money is at stake, I would hope you hire somebody with at least a lot of similar managerial experience, if not direct command experience, at least that is what I would think...

... but of course, Bush voters elected a man president with virtually NO MANAGEMENT EXPERIENCE IN ANYTHING, or any experience of having a job with any responsibility... what do you expect... seriously?

for those still interested in helping one of the more recommended ways is to donate to the american red cross disaster relief fund. the company i work for is matching our donations dollar for dollar and our ceo said he and his wife would match the employee donations and then the company would double that. my mom has been making personal care kits, washcloth, soap, deoderant, toothpaste, toothbrush, women's personal care items and taking them to some organization that was shipping them to houston.

locally, jacksonville has some evacuees and there are hotels here that have, 'katrina evacuees stay free' posted outside and i know that the duval county school board has offered to hire teachers immediately without the usual bureaucracy and two have been hired so far.

i admittedly paid little attention to events while i was on vacation in the uk, on the 29th i was in south laggan, scotland - if there was a tv where i was staying, then i was watching eastenders or coronation street. the next day i was in invermoriston and still hadn't a clue until someone heard me order a tea and asked where i was from and made mention of a hurricane, but i wasn't inclined to go to the news because they said it was in louisiana and i didn't have any immediate fear because i don't have any friends or family anywhere near new orleans and the guy that mentioned the hurricane didn't relay the enormity of it, it just sounded like some bad whether and i've been in the outer perimer of one hurricane (here) and in the path of one hurricane (north carolina) so far, and my experience was the lights go out for a couple of days, it's gets warm, the debris gets cleaned up and then the lights come back on and it's back to work.

didn't check the news on the 31st either when i got to drumnadrochit but when i got to inverness the next day, i checked in early and watched the bbc news and realized it was unfolding to be a nightmare. over and over again, it was asked, how can this happen in the united states the world's richest most powerful country? the bbc did a good job of trying to explain the enormity of it, that the area was larger their country, one reporter described it as, 'imagine a hurricane making landfall in the south and then running up all of the uk destroying everything in its path' - the footage was horrifying, i even thought 'how could this be happening in the u.s.?' and then, this footage is playing all over the globe - look at what the world is seeing as we fail all these people.

i appreciate the depth of links and feedback on these posts, it actually let me catch up and understand what occurred in the days following landfall of the hurricane.

this american life had an interesting segment on new orleans events this past weekend, it's well worth a listen - after the flood

symphonie--check out my thread somewhere at the bottom of this page (or maybe on the next) for all florida NOOLers. there are probably more shelters up your way than in the orlando area.

Twist, as Symphonie has written, the previous hurricanes have been quite a different experience from this. I think America has never seen anything like this but what's more worrying is that it seems there's no preparation at all to face huge emergencies with basic tasks: food, water, medicines, removal of rotting corpses. I wonder if you were there waiting for days for anything and only journalists arrived (why them and not the soldiers?!) would you be so patient? Hopefully Bush has learnt the lesson: you're defending a man who has finally admitted his faults. Hopefully he will re-organize the whole thing by scratch and will set up a long term plan to help the people involved in this tragedy and rebuild a city for everyone. Though I still think he should fuck off. After having seen a useless war in Iraq and a city of the USA looking like Rwanda I just wonder what else we must get prepared to see before 2009. I'm fookin scared actually. I'm sick of Bush's tragic mistakes and anyone in the western world could be his next victim. Remove the idiot from the White House before we see even worse!

we can blame whoever we want. now let's focus on prevention and be proactive. i think this is something people of all political persuasions can agree on.