"YO, BLAIR!"

ChrissMari wrote:

Shellshocker wrote:

leather_girl wrote: On another note, apparently, the US government is willing to evacuate fellow US citizens out of Lebanon, only if the evacuees will reimburse the fees for doing so. Other countries have evacuated their citizens out of Lebanon without charging them... Shame...shame...shame... Even if you're not American, this still is an outrageous thing to think of. If the government's got the money to spend on the "war", as well as pork-barrel projects (whatever you call those things), then they should be able to evacuate their own citizens without charging them!

Last night, the US govt decided to waive the fee. So, the Americans get evacuated for free. Yay Condy!
However, Holland, France, and Switzerland evacuated their people days ago.

because if the US did it would be acknowledging that Israel is doign something to cause harm to the rest of the world and that's just not done!

Tough to deny missiles destroying buildings & killing people, regardless of who's responsible.

ChrissMari wrote:

jonathan wrote: well, i hate bush as much as the next guy, but if clinton did something like this it would be laughed at and forgiven.

by democrats republicans would try to make a big deal out of it

that's all that's happening here.

i would have to agree with you.

jonathan wrote:

ChrissMari wrote:

jonathan wrote: well, i hate bush as much as the next guy, but if clinton did something like this it would be laughed at and forgiven.

by democrats republicans would try to make a big deal out of it

that's all that's happening here.

i would have to agree with you.

Yeah, politics these days is more about discrediting the other party rather than getting things positive done.

Shellshocker wrote:

jonathan wrote:

ChrissMari wrote:

jonathan wrote: well, i hate bush as much as the next guy, but if clinton did something like this it would be laughed at and forgiven.

by democrats republicans would try to make a big deal out of it

that's all that's happening here.

i would have to agree with you.

Yeah, politics these days is more about discrediting the other party rather than getting things positive done.

Whaddya mean, "these days" Isn't that the way it's *always* been? :p

Israel has a right to protect herself, but this seems like pure unwarrented attacks on a country that really doesn't pose a huge threat to her security. They must've been taking notes from us :D

It's bad what's going on in Lebanon right now, for sure, but letting the Hezbollah get a hand in government sure ain't a way to keep your justifiably paranoid minority-in-the-area neighbor off your case. Let's hope (though it's doubtful) that this will witness the birth of common sense in the Middle East

Taboo # 7 wrote:

Whaddya mean, "these days" Isn't that the way it's *always* been?

True, to an extent. But the founding fathers weren't this divisive in their politics. If they were, this republic never would have survived.

Taboo # 7 wrote:

It's bad what's going on in Lebanon right now, for sure, but letting the Hezbollah get a hand in government sure ain't a way to keep your justifiably paranoid minority-in-the-area neighbor off your case. Let's hope (though it's doubtful) that this will witness the birth of common sense in the Middle East

Yeah, when you elect a terrorist organization into your government, problems just might arise.

Shellshocker wrote:

Taboo # 7 wrote:

It's bad what's going on in Lebanon right now, for sure, but letting the Hezbollah get a hand in government sure ain't a way to keep your justifiably paranoid minority-in-the-area neighbor off your case. Let's hope (though it's doubtful) that this will witness the birth of common sense in the Middle East

Yeah, when you elect a terrorist organization into your government, problems just might arise.

It would be akin to Northern Ireland sending an IRA block to Parliment. Or Manchester sending Tony Wilson :p

"The right honorable member from Manchester is, you'll excuse the expression...a twat"

well this crap wouldn't be happening if bush didn't start the bullshit war in iraq. Countries, like iran, feel emboldened by our weaknesses. Our military does not have the capabilities to start shit with iran. I hate to say this too but since good ole saddam ain't around, iran gained more power in the middle east than ever before. Its very reassuring that the iraqi war reestablished stability in the middle east .

leather_girl wrote:

68Pontiac wrote: I know this is a thread to basically rant, but it seems like a conversation between two people. They know each other quite well, so I don't see what all the "ta-do" about it. So they talk like normal people. . .what's the big deal?

JHC

It's not the fact that Mr Bush used profanity that's the point. I'm frankly frightened that somebody like you thinks this way. It's how he's over-simplifying politics by casually remarking how they need to just "stop it" and it's over, that's scary, not the fact the he used profanity. Well, if that's the case, then I suppose wars and other crisises wouldn't occur, because you could just tap the guy on the shoulder, or ring him up on the phone telling them to "stop it". On another note, apparently, the US government is willing to evacuate fellow US citizens out of Lebanon, only if the evacuees will reimburse the fees for doing so. Other countries have evacuated their citizens out of Lebanon without charging them... Shame...shame...shame... Even if you're not American, this still is an outrageous thing to think of. If the government's got the money to spend on the "war", as well as pork-barrel projects (whatever you call those things), then they should be able to evacuate their own citizens without charging them!

As disturbing as it might sound, the longer you are around serious stuff, the more you can joke about it being trivial. The same goes in war. When behind the lines, soldiers and Marines talk about serious issues as if they were nothing, joking all the time about stuff that would never be joked around in peace-time. However, when the time comes to move into action, the joking stops and an uber-seriousness takes over. I think it's a way to deal with the stress. It might not look good, but I guarantee every country leader talks in this fashion when around close friends and not expecting that their talk is being publicized.

even though i disagree with Pontiac 67's politics and despise bush, i think people are overreacting over bush's verbal gaffe. I imagine every president and world leader is guilty of talking out of their ass when together.

68Pontiac wrote:

leather_girl wrote:

68Pontiac wrote: I know this is a thread to basically rant, but it seems like a conversation between two people. They know each other quite well, so I don't see what all the "ta-do" about it. So they talk like normal people. . .what's the big deal?

JHC

It's not the fact that Mr Bush used profanity that's the point. I'm frankly frightened that somebody like you thinks this way. It's how he's over-simplifying politics by casually remarking how they need to just "stop it" and it's over, that's scary, not the fact the he used profanity. Well, if that's the case, then I suppose wars and other crisises wouldn't occur, because you could just tap the guy on the shoulder, or ring him up on the phone telling them to "stop it". On another note, apparently, the US government is willing to evacuate fellow US citizens out of Lebanon, only if the evacuees will reimburse the fees for doing so. Other countries have evacuated their citizens out of Lebanon without charging them... Shame...shame...shame... Even if you're not American, this still is an outrageous thing to think of. If the government's got the money to spend on the "war", as well as pork-barrel projects (whatever you call those things), then they should be able to evacuate their own citizens without charging them!

As disturbing as it might sound, the longer you are around serious stuff, the more you can joke about it being trivial. The same goes in war. When behind the lines, soldiers and Marines talk about serious issues as if they were nothing, joking all the time about stuff that would never be joked around in peace-time. However, when the time comes to move into action, the joking stops and an uber-seriousness takes over. I think it's a way to deal with the stress. It might not look good, but I guarantee every country leader talks in this fashion when around close friends and not expecting that their talk is being publicized.

Good point, and I think it bears repeating that stress can sometimes result in unusual moments of "gallows humor". Take MASH (the movie, not the TV show) - when I first saw the film, I was shocked at the way the doctors could joke about their patients with their horrific wounds and what not. Then, on later viewings, I got it: that (and their endless pranks and drinking) was the only way to cope with the horrors of what they were confronted with on a daily (if not hourly) basis. Sure, it was a pointed slam at the Vietnam war by a bunch of draft-dodging Hollywood liberals, but it nailed the degrees to which people in that situation needed to relieve tension

So, at least to that degree, I don't think Bush was "out of line". I think the furor is over the fact that he was caught in such a moment looking and sounding decidedly unpresidential. As much as the Bush camp tries to "humanize" him into the President you'd have a beer with, it turns out that he's a sloppy drunk (not saying he was drunk, but he sure came across like someone with little or no manners)

Shellshocker wrote:

leather_girl wrote: On another note, apparently, the US government is willing to evacuate fellow US citizens out of Lebanon, only if the evacuees will reimburse the fees for doing so. Other countries have evacuated their citizens out of Lebanon without charging them... Shame...shame...shame... Even if you're not American, this still is an outrageous thing to think of. If the government's got the money to spend on the "war", as well as pork-barrel projects (whatever you call those things), then they should be able to evacuate their own citizens without charging them!

Last night, the US govt decided to waive the fee. So, the Americans get evacuated for free. Yay Condy!
However, Holland, France, and Switzerland evacuated their people days ago.

Thanks for updating that information. Bush's behaviour at the G8 summit was a downright pathetic embarrassment...

I agree with Pontiac on his point but I maintain that it was out of the protocol of the G8 summit which has nothing to do with what happens in the Lebanon.

Blair's word about G8 was "thingy" if my memories are right, well, they were there to talk business, not about the diplomatic situation.

On the other hand, I am maybe old-fashioned, but I do not like the Angela, Cozzi, Tony and all these "friendly ways". We are not electing people to let them make parties with money out of our taxes. Angela Merkel is Kanzler of the Federal Republic of Germany. Tony Blair is the Prime Minister of the British Government. And I try not to forget all the others, Presidents of Republics (democratic, communist, almost fascist), Prime Ministers of Kingdoms or Republics, Ministers of Foreign Affairs, Secretary of State...

Pontiac, I have never been a soldier on the frontline, but I have been one almost one year. To be on duty is one thing. I was in offices where there were all the armies (earth, air forces, navy - what a fucking mess to know all the grades in two days). At each step, a different army. From the top to me, Légion Etrangère, Armée de l'Air, Marine, Gendarmerie, Cavalerie and then other minor officers. Some of them became good friends (I was in the Alpine Troops). On duty, they could bark anything they want because it was duty time and all I had to say was "Oui, chef/ Non, chef". Off duty, we used to get drunk "as sailors" do and Officer S. was simply S. and I was no more Chasseur Ravier but Jiphy. We were OFF-duty. We could behave how we fancied.

Back to W's affair, they were ON duty. A summit is generally a protocol where things designed and discussed long before between administrations of several countries are to be signed with the heads of state in front of the cameras. That is why it is shocking when they behave like in a snack-bar.

Futhermore, the G8 summit was hosted in Russia.

And as Taboo #7 says...

Taboo # 7 wrote: As much as the Bush camp tries to "humanize" him into the President you'd have a beer with

... it all happened in front of Vladimir Putin... who is not the kind of "guy" who is likely to do so with common people.

And without any will to "theorize" anything, I am still amazed that this conversation had been on the air. The most powerful man in the world, his faithfull allied who are on the top of sophistacated espionnage networks (echelon network for example) caught like schoolkids by microphones. Where did the machine get wrong ?

Jiphy wrote: Futhermore, the G8 summit was hosted in Russia.

And as Taboo #7 says...

Taboo # 7 wrote: As much as the Bush camp tries to "humanize" him into the President you'd have a beer with

... it all happened in front of Vladimir Putin... who is not the kind of "guy" who is likely to do so with common people.

And without any will to "theorize" anything, I am still amazed that this conversation had been on the air. The most powerful man in the world, his faithfull allied who are on the top of sophistacated espionnage networks (echelon network for example) caught like schoolkids by microphones. Where did the machine get wrong ?

On the other hand, if the mikes weren't on, we wouldn't have had a chance to hear Bush unscripted, with his stupidity for all of the world to see and hear.

leather_girl wrote:

Jiphy wrote: Futhermore, the G8 summit was hosted in Russia.

And as Taboo #7 says...

Taboo # 7 wrote: As much as the Bush camp tries to "humanize" him into the President you'd have a beer with

... it all happened in front of Vladimir Putin... who is not the kind of "guy" who is likely to do so with common people.

And without any will to "theorize" anything, I am still amazed that this conversation had been on the air. The most powerful man in the world, his faithfull allied who are on the top of sophistacated espionnage networks (echelon network for example) caught like schoolkids by microphones. Where did the machine get wrong ?

On the other hand, if the mikes weren't on, we wouldn't have had a chance to hear Bush unscripted, with his stupidity for all of the world to see and hear.

like we needed more proof. lol