Another school shootout.. in Montreal today...

Radiohead??

That's the guy that did the shooting?

Looks like a rap fan

Diamond White wrote:

Spotnick wrote: ...the worst bully in our year was picking on me...

Any idea where he lives now, Nic?

Yeah, he's Prime Minister of Canada.

Vik D - Serotonin wrote: Oh they've gone one step further now. It's not just music's fault... It's now a website's fault!!!

http://vampirefreaks.com/ is the one to blame today.

Obviously a guy who needed to get out a bit more....what a fucktard

This blue-eyed boy that wants to be wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: Now maybe this doesn't apply to these guys as they are in universities...but does anyone think these think these shootings are linked to "no fighting" policies on schoolgrounds?

When I was a kid, if someone picked on you, you got in a fight. If the teacher found out about the fight, the bully got punished and nothing happened to the one defending themselves.

Nowadays, if anyone gets into a fight, they both get in the same amount of trouble. No matter the reason.

It seems that this would lead to the kids being bullied to not stand up for themselves, push these feelings down deep only later to explode into a Columbine incident.

Just a thought.

I agree with you, partially. When I was a freshman and sophomore in high school, this group of guys in my homeroom always made fun of me. In one incident, I was reading an issue of Circus magazine for it's article on Smashing pumpkins and they started calling me a satanist and devil worshipper, over and over. The teacher didn't seem to see anything, so I just lifted up my desk and moved it behind a filing cabinet. The teacher then asks me, "What's wrong?" As a sophomore, those same kids were calling me a "faggot" and "homo" during an assembly, but instead of turning around to punch them, I told the teacher this time. The teacher basically said, "What do you expect me to do? If you don't like this advisory, go to another homeroom." A month or so later, one of those guys started harasshing me in homeroom again. After the teacher left the room, I just turned around and punched him. When the teacher came back, the entire homeroom is telling him I punched this kid. The teacher says, "I didn't see anything." The kid no longer messed with me for the rest of the year and for the next two years.

Now, I eventually got pushed, but not enough to bring guns to school and shoot everyone. I did get pushed, especially after this teacher wasn't listening to me and told me that it's not his problem.

Schools are, on the whole, ghastly places. I wonder if its the case that US (and perhaps Canadian) ones are more ghastly than UK ones though? As horrible as my school days were there never seemed to be the kind of cliquiness (goddam how do you spell that word?) that always seems to be shown in portrayals of US schools, nor the degree of insane sports worship and homophobia. Is that an accurate view of US schools or is it just the way it looks in the movies and TV shows? My memory of it is as just a collection of equally messed up indviduals fighting each other on a roughly equal basis. No 'jocks' or 'in-crowd' or any of that. Plus, if you really didn't like it you didn't have to turn up anyway. Most of the boys dropped out alltogether after about 13, and I used to bunk off for weeks at a time (nothing very useful ever seemed to happen in the classroom anyway).

In short, is there a connection between all these shootings and this macho, cliquey, jock worshipping culture that US (or Canadaian) schools are shown in the media has having? Or is it just that they have the guns?

404 error wrote:

Schools are, on the whole, ghastly places. I wonder if its the case that US (and perhaps Canadian) ones are more ghastly than UK ones though? As horrible as my school days were there never seemed to be the kind of cliquiness (goddam how do you spell that word?) that always seems to be shown in portrayals of US schools, nor the degree of insane sports worship and homophobia. Is that an accurate view of US schools or is it just the way it looks in the movies and TV shows? My memory of it is as just a collection of equally messed up indviduals fighting each other on a roughly equal basis. No 'jocks' or 'in-crowd' or any of that. Plus, if you really didn't like it you didn't have to turn up anyway. Most of the boys dropped out alltogether after about 13, and I used to bunk off for weeks at a time (nothing very useful ever seemed to happen in the classroom anyway).

I guess I was lucky. I was not at all cool, but I never got picked on by jocks or cool kids. I stayed out of their way and they stayed out of mine. I get the impression that the answer to your question is yes, US schools are pretty clique-ey (sp?) with the jocks, beautiful people, and other popular kids generally not letting the braniacs, nerds, and other popluar kids in their cliques. TV may exaggerate it a bit, but as near as I can tell, it's fairly accurate. But what the hell do I know, it's beeen so long since I was in high school. I hear they even have computers nowadays.

Shellshocker wrote:

404 error wrote:

Schools are, on the whole, ghastly places. I wonder if its the case that US (and perhaps Canadian) ones are more ghastly than UK ones though? As horrible as my school days were there never seemed to be the kind of cliquiness (goddam how do you spell that word?) that always seems to be shown in portrayals of US schools, nor the degree of insane sports worship and homophobia. Is that an accurate view of US schools or is it just the way it looks in the movies and TV shows? My memory of it is as just a collection of equally messed up indviduals fighting each other on a roughly equal basis. No 'jocks' or 'in-crowd' or any of that. Plus, if you really didn't like it you didn't have to turn up anyway. Most of the boys dropped out alltogether after about 13, and I used to bunk off for weeks at a time (nothing very useful ever seemed to happen in the classroom anyway).

I guess I was lucky. I was not at all cool, but I never got picked on by jocks or cool kids. I stayed out of their way and they stayed out of mine. I get the impression that the answer to your question is yes, US schools are pretty clique-ey (sp?) with the jocks, beautiful people, and other popular kids generally not letting the braniacs, nerds, and other popluar kids in their cliques. TV may exaggerate it a bit, but as near as I can tell, it's fairly accurate. But what the hell do I know, it's beeen so long since I was in high school. I hear they even have computers nowadays.

I think the cliqueness (is that a real word?) is there, but it's exaggerated on the TV, because kids exaggerate their dillemas....it's how it FEELS to them, I'm thinking. I punish my kids nowadays, and when I do it's not that big of a deal from my point of view, but they act just like I did when I was a kid....it was the end of the world. The one thing the TV does, though, is it takes 4 years worth of stuff that happens to everyone during that time and potrays it as if it happens all in one day....but then again, I think that's how kids feel....

Definately no excuse to draw a weapon though

404 error wrote:

This blue-eyed boy that wants to be wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: Now maybe this doesn't apply to these guys as they are in universities...but does anyone think these think these shootings are linked to "no fighting" policies on schoolgrounds?

When I was a kid, if someone picked on you, you got in a fight. If the teacher found out about the fight, the bully got punished and nothing happened to the one defending themselves.

Nowadays, if anyone gets into a fight, they both get in the same amount of trouble. No matter the reason.

It seems that this would lead to the kids being bullied to not stand up for themselves, push these feelings down deep only later to explode into a Columbine incident.

Just a thought.

I agree with you, partially. When I was a freshman and sophomore in high school, this group of guys in my homeroom always made fun of me. In one incident, I was reading an issue of Circus magazine for it's article on Smashing pumpkins and they started calling me a satanist and devil worshipper, over and over. The teacher didn't seem to see anything, so I just lifted up my desk and moved it behind a filing cabinet. The teacher then asks me, "What's wrong?" As a sophomore, those same kids were calling me a "faggot" and "homo" during an assembly, but instead of turning around to punch them, I told the teacher this time. The teacher basically said, "What do you expect me to do? If you don't like this advisory, go to another homeroom." A month or so later, one of those guys started harasshing me in homeroom again. After the teacher left the room, I just turned around and punched him. When the teacher came back, the entire homeroom is telling him I punched this kid. The teacher says, "I didn't see anything." The kid no longer messed with me for the rest of the year and for the next two years.

Now, I eventually got pushed, but not enough to bring guns to school and shoot everyone. I did get pushed, especially after this teacher wasn't listening to me and told me that it's not his problem.

Schools are, on the whole, ghastly places. I wonder if its the case that US (and perhaps Canadian) ones are more ghastly than UK ones though? As horrible as my school days were there never seemed to be the kind of cliquiness (goddam how do you spell that word?) that always seems to be shown in portrayals of US schools, nor the degree of insane sports worship and homophobia. Is that an accurate view of US schools or is it just the way it looks in the movies and TV shows? My memory of it is as just a collection of equally messed up indviduals fighting each other on a roughly equal basis. No 'jocks' or 'in-crowd' or any of that. Plus, if you really didn't like it you didn't have to turn up anyway. Most of the boys dropped out alltogether after about 13, and I used to bunk off for weeks at a time (nothing very useful ever seemed to happen in the classroom anyway).

In short, is there a connection between all these shootings and this macho, cliquey, jock worshipping culture that US (or Canadaian) schools are shown in the media has having? Or is it just that they have the guns?

My high school experience was nothing like what I've seen on TV. There was cliquishness, but it wasn't a bunch of popular, beautiful cool kids excluding everyone. I went to a large urban high school - while most high schools on TV are depicted in the peaceful suburbs - with a student body of 3400, and most of the cliques were based on race, especially because the school - at least when I was there - was about 50% white and 50% black and hispanic. Most cliques were divided by race, but if you were white, you were pretty much considered unpopular if you didn't conform to urban hip-hop culture. I listened to Smashing Pumpkins, the Cure, and NO during those years, hated hip-hop, hated "urban gear", didn't speak ebonics, and dressed like Duckie from Pretty In Pink. Plus, to make matters worse, I was smarter than most of my peers; while most people in my class were struggling with trig by senior year, I had completed both Calculus I and II before that time. And the combination of looking weird and "being too smart for [my] own good" meant that I was a target.

But, being that Philadelphia is a disorganized urban school district, no one really gave a damn about minor harrassment. Unless a weapon was brought to school - it probably would've made a metal detector go off at the front door - or unless someone was raped or was beaten senseless, or unless you had a severe truancy problem, you had to deal with whatever problems other students were giving you. Also, if a student in an urban school district brings a gun to school and shoots people, it makes the local news. If a kid brings in a gun in a suburban district and shoots someome, it's on CNN. But, like the UK, there is a high drop out rate here - at least in the city. My class went from 1100 to 600 students in four years, and most of my friends dropped out soon after they turned 16, deciding that minimum-wage jobs were better than sitting in some decaying old building where they couldn't even learn enough to pass the state exams.

Believe it or not, I plan to study in Montreal after what I had seen in Toronto.

In regard to school and bullying: I have been bullied since elementary school because kids have been jealous that I was smarter than them, even though I was popular at the same time. Elementary school wasn't that bad, especially in 5th grade when I got the award for Best All-Around. It was hell for me in middle school and high school. I didn't get bullied, per se, but I was excluded. Cliques are just stupid. I couldn't say that I know the reasons for this exclusion for sure. I can probably guess that my race, intelligence, the fact that I'm agnostic, and the way I talked (after wearing a device to correct an overbite, braces, retainers, and the fact that I spoke Japanese before English) had something to do with it. Now that I'm in college, I don't have much of a problem anymore. I have more friends in college.