O/T : SO SOLID CREW

I'm proud to say that...... I DON'T....

Thank fook for that! Nike are the pits! I hate absolutely everything they stand for. Can't say fairer than that!

Originally posted by Oh Look! There Goes The Laughing Martian Again!! That's okay, everyone's entitled to their own opinion of them, but to me they are just so contrived. I cannot be convinced by any facet of their existence, other than that to create a sensation. And WHAT a sensation too - you've got to hand it to them..... but I don't like them so that's my final word on them. I love all types of music, so I don't consider myself narrow minded at all - but two things put me off straight away and will always automatically colour my judgement on how I appreciate a band. They are:1) Hype (see The Strokes)2) Sensation! Outrage! Tabloid Inches!! Daytime News Bulletin Fodder!!!Because of this, the music comes secondary and, sadly in the case of So Solid Crew, their music has no impact at all, after the initial blast of braggadaccio [sic] and rhetoric. Unlike, say, Public Enemy (often assumed to be their mentors as regards the notion of a whole collaborative/collective set-up) , who have harnessed this same ethic largely without compromising their integrity or sound. (Did THEY ever get hyped up in the ridiculous way SSC did? Of course not).The Martian Has Spoken.

Marty, we've met, I know you're an intelligent man, so think on. The trouble with bands like So Solid Crew is that the energy of the live show NEVER comes across on the record when often it's the energy of the live show that is so vital to the appreciation of the music. You should know what i'm talking about, after all music is best when it is heard in a live environment as i'm sure you'll agree.

never heard of them. but it sounds like another band that tries to cash into kids needs to buy rebellion at the mall...unfortunately, every country has their own version of this crap music...so i don't think i'm spared in anyway...

Nah - I guess I'll have to pass on the undoubtedly huge phenomenon that is So Solid Crew. Always hated UK Garage anyway, no matter how much they try to disguise it t as something else.

I hate So Solid Crew but I'm not sure about them being contrived. There are striking similarities between SSC and the Wu-Tang Clan (both like to think of themselves as a family or gang, both have tried to turn themselves into brands selling more than just music and both are getting dragged down by some members' solo projects and problems) and in terms of their lyrics and image SSC are just a UK version of gangsta rap. However, there is so much chaos around So Solid Crew that if there was a plan (not that many band members seem clever and clear-minded enough to be able to follow one) it has gone out of the window because the street culture they wanted to sell to the mainstream has become damaged goods and some band members couldn't handle the pressure. They are now reaping what they have sown and if they don't sort themselves out pretty quickly (and they don't look like doing that) they will soon be forgotten and won't be missed because musically and lyrically they simply weren't good enough to be anything more than a passing fad.

By the way Martian, Public Enemy were hyped up but not quite in the same way as SSC. Whilst PE were hyped as being, for want of a better word, dangerous that never got in the way of the hype surrounding their musical ability and ambition, hype they lived up to with "It Takes A Nation..." and "Fear Of A Black Planet". If anything the hype surrounding SSC is more like the hype surrounding the Beastie Boys in the late 1980's which they only survived by laying low for a while and then re-inventing themselves.

Originally posted by Muffy > Originally posted by Fingers> Muffy, So Solid Crew aren't a band - they're a brand.

Nike are a brand, I bet you own something with that swoosh on it!

Muffy, no I don't own anything with a swoosh on it or any other designer logo. I hate trainers and townie gear and where I live if you wear "sports" gear you are usually a heroin addict who has sold most of their clothes to buy smack (okay, I exaggerate - the ones wearing a shellsuit and little else are the smackheads). Besides, why spend £40 on a pair of designer jeans when you can buy a pair of jeans for £10 and spend the other £30 on two albums and a few singles?

Originally posted by Muffy Marty, we've met, I know you're an intelligent man, so think on. The trouble with bands like So Solid Crew is that the energy of the live show NEVER comes across on the record when often it's the energy of the live show that is so vital to the appreciation of the music. You should know what i'm talking about, after all music is best when it is heard in a live environment as i'm sure you'll agree.

Of course Muffster!! I agree wholeheartedly matey!! I'd much rather get my rocks off going apeshit to a band in a live setting than in a more "sterile" club environment when all one is doing is dancing to what the DJ plays [you noticed I never did that once that great Mcr get-together weekend, that's cos I never afford the DJ the satisfaction (or egotrip even) of seeing myself dancing to his records, my sadistic streak means I'd rather listen to the records sitting down or chilling - devious perverse sod that I am!!]. But what I said right at the top of this thread about the SSC is that I saw them "live" doing their bit on Jools Holland's programme. That's as "live" as we believe they can get by the looks of it. I'm sure live they ARE a spectacle, they simply HAVE to be, if their records come across the way I think they do. But then, to be fair, all one gets is the added bonus of seeing the band jumping about being hyper-energetic and squabbling over whatever their lyrical obsessions were....to me that really isn't much of a big deal - Fingers correctly mentioned that they bore many similarities to the Wu Tang Clan rather than Public Enemy - and they carry off pretty much the same sort of presence when live on stage - rapping like the clappers over preprogrammed backings. Not much new with that really, me thinks. Hence my reserved judgement on the whole caboodle.

God, I come across like some right old humourless snob now, don't I?! I'm knocking on 37 now and to be honest, the kind of music that SSC peddle is not really aimed at my age group is it? Me? - I'll stick with The Order for the time being , even if they do annoy the fook out of me sometimes...

And anyway, at the expense of appearing even more like a anally retentive snob (if that is possible!)

Old skool hip hop / electro has always done more for me anyway, simply cos I was of the same age most SSC fans would be now when the whole thing happened in the early 80s thus having grown up being aware of that stuff a lot more.

Marty, so I'm not the only person who likes old skool hip hop/electro!!! I got the "Electro Breakdance" compilation recently and when I put it on I nearly wet myself, especially when I heard Chaka Khan's "I Feel For You" for the first time in what must be over a decade (and the version on the album is nearly 6 mins long - brilliant!!!).

Okay, most old skool rappers didn't have much to say but the music was new and exciting and then PE, De La Soul and The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy came along and took rap to another level. I stopped listening to the rap shows on Radio 1 when people started jumping on the gangsta rap bandwagon started by N.W.A. (the only track of theirs I like is "Express Yourself") because it was puerile and dull compared to the rap acts I liked. Rap producers have been scraping the bottom of the sample barrel for a few years now (Salt 'n' Pepa sampling of Pink Floyd's "Another Brick In The Wall" was bad but MOP's Foreigner sample on "Cold As Ice" was even worse) and too many rappers have simply churned out cliches.

Attention-seeking money-obsessed bandwagon-chasers like So Solid Crew make it really difficult for talented people who want to do innovative things to get a chance to make it big because the music industry and the music media is more interested in quick profits and the latest trends than in long-term investment and new talent. This doesn't just happen in rap: it happens in dance music, the "indie" scene and especially in pop. If preferring music made to make something new or interesting over music made to make money makes me an anally retentive snob I'm happy to be one.

Originally posted by Fingers Marty, so I'm not the only person who likes old skool hip hop/electro!!! I got the "Electro Breakdance" compilation recently and when I put it on I nearly wet myself, especially when I heard Chaka Khan's "I Feel For You" for the first time in what must be over a decade (and the version on the album is nearly 6 mins long - brilliant!!!).Okay, most old skool rappers didn't have much to say but the music was new and exciting and then PE, De La Soul and The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy came along and took rap to another level. I stopped listening to the rap shows on Radio 1 when people started jumping on the gangsta rap bandwagon started by N.W.A. (the only track of theirs I like is "Express Yourself") because it was puerile and dull compared to the rap acts I liked. Rap producers have been scraping the bottom of the sample barrel for a few years now (Salt 'n' Pepa sampling of Pink Floyd's "Another Brick In The Wall" was bad but MOP's Foreigner sample on "Cold As Ice" was even worse) and too many rappers have simply churned out cliches.Attention-seeking money-obsessed bandwagon-chasers like So Solid Crew make it really difficult for talented people who want to do innovative things to get a chance to make it big because the music industry and the music media is more interested in quick profits and the latest trends than in long-term investment and new talent. This doesn't just happen in rap: it happens in dance music, the "indie" scene and especially in pop. If preferring music made to make something new or interesting over music made to make money makes me an anally retentive snob I'm happy to be one.

EXCELLENT POINTS FINGERS! and so well observed too! Like you, I share your enthusiasm for hip hop that actually means something other than the often-clichéd misogynist/homophobic/"street-tough"/violence and gun-obsessed bullshit that too many undeserving acts get the plaudits for. To much of all that crap chestbeating dick-waggling machismo does fuck all for me, less appeal in any way whatsoever. Grandmaster Flash was obviously one of the great forefathers, and for that alone we must salute him. His rhymes always had meaning and purpose, and the anger he directed at the ghettos always felt more forthright than all those pathetic wannabe gangstas that proliferated in his wake. With the exception of perhaps Cypress Hill and Dr Dre, I fail to get excited about much of the more current wave of "gangsta" Hip Hop doing the rounds to this day (any other names you feel I may not have heard of - as I'm no expert on Hip Hop save for having a passing interest in a very small number of staple acts whose output I have followed on and off over the years). True, some hip hop uses samples in such groundbreakingly creative ways it pays to give those involved a mention, but too often this kind of originality is swamped by what you all too correctly pointed out is this "lowest-common-denominator" pilfering of the cheesiest riffs from the cheesiest 80's hits (remember Puff Daddy's Police steal?? Who could forget it??).

I mean, for fuck's sake! Hip Hop when it's very good is some of the most brain-bustingly original and downright stimulating music you'll ever fooking well hear!!!! Some of it makes me go !!!!! !!!!!..... but sadly that's all too infrequent these days. Too bad a lot of it is just this stereotypical "bad-attitood" shite that passes muster for talent...... Seems now you can't do hip hop in a meaningful way without being labelled an old hippy or retro-obsessive.

My best teenage memories included recollections of some of the best of old-skool hip hop breaks applied to ordinary soul /disco tracks: think Shannon's "Let The Music Play" (in fact that whole album of hers is a fooking old skool electro classic - filled with early Arthur-Baker style electro/hip hop beats a plenty!!) and you will get a pretty good idea of what used to drive ME wild on the dancefloor when I was just 17/18 years old!!! And then, we all know what happened at the same time didn't we? New Order went to New York, hung round a bit, lost their heads at Paradise Garage, and came back with "Confusion" in their heads! Yowsa!!!

Yeah, boy!!!!! Marty, I'm going to dig around in my collection of old-skool compilations to see if I can find some gems to bring to the attention of any younger readers who, like us, find SSC and their gangsta idols depressing (by the way, I've found that if Puff Daddy ever catches my attention I can defuse my rage by thinking back to the day when one of his singles entered the Top 40 below the latest single by Mercury Rev). However, whilst I'm doing that you can wax lyrical about your hip-hop heroes or any other musicians who broke new ground on the new thread I've started dedicated to saluting music's innovators.