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Gun laws

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This is an archived legacy thread. Replies are closed, but the discussion is preserved.

As some Noolers find some of the comments on the thread about the latest shootings in America tasteless Thought it best to start a new thread to deal with all matters about this topic....

My opinion on the matter is that of course these things are more likely to happen in a country where guns are easily available.

Yes the UK has had tragedies of it's own, however after Dunblane the gun laws were tightened and then tightened again after Hungerford.

this is not to say that this couldn't happen here, guns are available on the black market, but the fact that there are far fewer guns available to people and laws in place for illegal gun ownership make it a whole lot less likely.

I find the view of if everyone is armed then there will be less killings frankly insane:nuts:

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Sure restricting the access to deadly weapons will reduce the number of innocents killed. No argument there.

If somebody really wants to get a gun, they always will find a way. Criminals and gang members don't seem to have any problems in getting them.

It is true that guns don't kill people, but people who use guns kill people.

Restricting access to guns is a good move in my book.

After all how many people can you kill in a stabbing rampage.

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And reduce the number of accidental deaths and injuries that gun owners cause to themselves or others

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NOOLigan wrote:

After all how many people can you kill in a stabbing rampage.

Dunno:shrug:

I'll report back after I have finally snapped:evil4:

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Minx wrote: And reduce the number of accidental deaths and injuries that gun owners cause to themselves or others

very true.

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Minx wrote:

NOOLigan wrote:

After all how many people can you kill in a stabbing rampage.

Dunno:shrug:

I'll report back after I have finally snapped:evil4:

I'm expecting a full report. :uhoh: :wink: :lol:

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Well, one view here is that if everybody is armed, nobody will want to cause trouble, because they could be shot dead. And if somebody does go on a rampage like today it will end quickly.

The other view is that it will lead to more heat of the moment killings.

And then there's that whole Second Amendment mess. A more awkward sentence could not have been written:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

What exactly does that mean? We can all carry guns? If so, then why mention a militia?

Or does it mean we can all carry guns if we serve in a "well-regulated" state militia? And if so, then the fact that the "well-regulated" state militias essentially disappeared with the federalization of the military, and have been replaced by the armed forces and the National Guard, makes the Second Amendment a meaningless appendage.

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Sale of certian weapons should be forbidden, such as fully automatics and .50 caliber and above. There simply isn't any real need for a civilian to need these. If so, there better be a letter from the Predsident or Congress or something.

Hand guns and rifles shouldn't be banned though. Hunting is a large sport that uses rifles (other than that rifles are a bit unnecessary).

It usually takes 30 minutes for police around here to be able to react. ALOT can happen in 30 minutes. I prefer the ability to protect my family if necessary.

Guns shouldn't be handed out to just anyone, but a good extensive backround check and training in using a weapon.

If guns are banned, only the law abiding people will listen. Criminals will not listen to these laws. So banning is actually empowering the criminals.

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EdelBrock wrote: ...fully automatics and .50 caliber and above. There simply isn't any real need for a civilian to need these...

Not even in rush hour traffic? :evil4:

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I'm one of these people that believe the ownership and use of guns is so ingrained in American culture, that if the laws were reversed, it would give a huge boost to the illegal firearms culture.

In the UK, thats the method of obtaining firearms, be it through cash in a brown paper bag or the internet. If you really want a gun,and have the cash, you can get one.

The media must shoulder vast chunks of the blame surely? Be it cop shows, war coverage, dramas, films etc, or just plain news.

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EdelBrock wrote: Sale of certian weapons should be forbidden, such as fully automatics and .50 caliber and above. There simply isn't any real need for a civilian to need these. If so, there better be a letter from the Predsident or Congress or something.

Hand guns and rifles shouldn't be banned though. Hunting is a large sport that uses rifles (other than that rifles are a bit unnecessary).

It usually takes 30 minutes for police around here to be able to react. ALOT can happen in 30 minutes. I prefer the ability to protect my family if necessary.

Guns shouldn't be handed out to just anyone, but a good extensive backround check and training in using a weapon.

If guns are banned, only the law abiding people will listen. Criminals will not listen to these laws. So banning is actually empowering the criminals.

And what about all the shootings done in the heat of the moment? no one has a good old fashioned punch up they just pull out their guns.

And what about the fact that the guns you own for your protection can be stolen from you...or are they carefully locked up away from your kids ? in which case how can you use them to protect your family if you have to go and unlock them???? oh and the accidental injuries and killings?

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People are always quick to blame our gun laws.. which I will admit is partly the problem, but the other issue is how the country deals with mental illness. It's not taken seriously and most insurance companies don't even cover it. How does someone with the capacity to kill 30 people in a few hours go unnoticed?

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Cath wrote: People are always quick to blame our gun laws.. which I will admit is partly the problem, but the other issue is how the country deals with mental illness. It's not taken seriously and most insurance companies don't even cover it. How does someone with the capacity to kill 30 people in a few hours go unnoticed?

Yep, that's at the root of these rampages.

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Comrade Shampanyov wrote:

Cath wrote: People are always quick to blame our gun laws.. which I will admit is partly the problem, but the other issue is how the country deals with mental illness. It's not taken seriously and most insurance companies don't even cover it. How does someone with the capacity to kill 30 people in a few hours go unnoticed?

Yep, that's at the root of these rampages.

It always is.. and there's always the same signs.. antisocial, kills animals, passive aggressive tendencies.. etc etc.. but no one cares or takes it seriously until the lunatic kills a bunch of people.

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Comrade Shampanyov wrote:

Cath wrote: People are always quick to blame our gun laws.. which I will admit is partly the problem, but the other issue is how the country deals with mental illness. It's not taken seriously and most insurance companies don't even cover it. How does someone with the capacity to kill 30 people in a few hours go unnoticed?

Yep, that's at the root of these rampages.

It's an issue of course, but I'd rather deal with an unarmed mentally ill person than an armed one

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Cath wrote:

It always is.. and there's always the same signs.. antisocial, kills animals, passive aggressive tendencies.. etc etc..

I ran over another duck the other day. :nod:

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Minx wrote:

Comrade Shampanyov wrote:

Cath wrote: People are always quick to blame our gun laws.. which I will admit is partly the problem, but the other issue is how the country deals with mental illness. It's not taken seriously and most insurance companies don't even cover it. How does someone with the capacity to kill 30 people in a few hours go unnoticed?

Yep, that's at the root of these rampages.

It's an issue of course, but I'd rather deal with an unarmed mentally ill person than an armed one

Definitely.

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Burt Reynolds wrote:

Cath wrote:

It always is.. and there's always the same signs.. antisocial, kills animals, passive aggressive tendencies.. etc etc..

I ran over another duck the other day. :nod:

Do you own a gun:skeptic:

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Minx wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

Cath wrote:

It always is.. and there's always the same signs.. antisocial, kills animals, passive aggressive tendencies.. etc etc..

I ran over another duck the other day. :nod:

Do you own a gun:skeptic:

no, I live in the UK, we dont own guns. It just hit the bumper, and I felt no urges to go out and shoot it too. Only urge was to clear my windscreen of feathers.

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Burt Reynolds wrote:

Minx wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

Cath wrote:

It always is.. and there's always the same signs.. antisocial, kills animals, passive aggressive tendencies.. etc etc..

I ran over another duck the other day. :nod:

Do you own a gun:skeptic:

no, I live in the UK, we dont own guns. It just hit the bumper, and I felt no urges to go out and shoot it too. Only urge was to clear my windscreen of feathers.

How's the van? :evil4:

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NOOLigan wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

Minx wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

Cath wrote:

It always is.. and there's always the same signs.. antisocial, kills animals, passive aggressive tendencies.. etc etc..

I ran over another duck the other day. :nod:

Do you own a gun:skeptic:

no, I live in the UK, we dont own guns. It just hit the bumper, and I felt no urges to go out and shoot it too. Only urge was to clear my windscreen of feathers.

How's the van? :evil4:

The van died on a highly traumatic Valentines Day. I'm currently trying to ruin the bosses wifes car.

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Van man no more. :D

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NOOLigan wrote: Van man no more. :D

Well i only drove one to avoid parking tickets. Never carried anything. Now I drive around faster but have to park at a distance and walk. grr

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I don't really have any opinion about US gun law, its up to the Americans to decide. I think perhaps the sad thing is there's a clash of culture, that for a good portion of Americans gun ownership is part of their culture, while for the rest it isn't, and its in the nature of the topic that it isn't really possible to satisfy both groups. (I do wonder if the South had won the civil war, whether the North would have developed more of a European political culture, with European style gun laws, while the South became like Apartheid South Africa before eventually ending up a black-majority nation, like post-apartheid south africa...but, um, thats a bit of a tangent).

Anyway, guns don't kill people, criminal and crazed people kill people, unfortunately US society seems to produce an awful lot of those. I'd think that was an argument for changing the society more than banning the guns.

I also think its supremely ironic that, apparently, some of the hostility to the US in Iraq has been partly fuelled by the US forces attempts to disarm the population, gun ownership being very widespread under Saddam (not that that seemed to do much to 'prevent tyranny'). Did the NRA have anything to say about US troops raiding people's houses in Iraq to sieze household guns?

But even in the UK, with, I think, the tightest gun control laws in the world, shootings seem to become more and more frequent. They are certainly commonplace in South London now, where once they were almost unheard of. It seems there's some sort of inevitable increase in the destructive power available to individuals, whatever the law says.

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South London's always had its fair share of shootings. You just hear of it more through media, as the focus is clearly on youth behaviour/crime and random murders. This is due to a lack of news, (i.e. something to report), rather than an increase in frequency. If anything the media reports are aimed at knife crime.

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Once again, you've hit the nail squarely on the head, 404 Error. Bizarre country, the U.S., split down the middle the way it is.

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Comrade Shampanyov wrote: Once again, you've hit the nail squarely on the head, 404 Error. Bizarre country, the U.S., split down the middle the way it is.

Agreed to that.

However, in Iraq, every household is allowed one AK-47. What they aren't allowed is mass quantities, and stockloads of the weapons. These weapons weren't owned (for the most part) by the iraqis before the war, but after the many stockades were plundered after the invasion.

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Minx wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: Sale of certian weapons should be forbidden, such as fully automatics and .50 caliber and above. There simply isn't any real need for a civilian to need these. If so, there better be a letter from the Predsident or Congress or something.

Hand guns and rifles shouldn't be banned though. Hunting is a large sport that uses rifles (other than that rifles are a bit unnecessary).

It usually takes 30 minutes for police around here to be able to react. ALOT can happen in 30 minutes. I prefer the ability to protect my family if necessary.

Guns shouldn't be handed out to just anyone, but a good extensive backround check and training in using a weapon.

If guns are banned, only the law abiding people will listen. Criminals will not listen to these laws. So banning is actually empowering the criminals.

And what about all the shootings done in the heat of the moment? no one has a good old fashioned punch up they just pull out their guns.

And what about the fact that the guns you own for your protection can be stolen from you...or are they carefully locked up away from your kids ? in which case how can you use them to protect your family if you have to go and unlock them???? oh and the accidental injuries and killings?

Fortunately technology has caught up with these problems. I have a fingerprint safe. Opens quick, and doesn't let anyone other than my wife or myself into the safe

fingerprint safe

I also have taken my son (9) (my daughter isn't old enough yet) to a range and taught him the safety rules, and proper use of a weapon. I also showed him what damage can be done by one. I've taught him to respect the dangers of such weapons. Plus the added fact that he knows that if I caught him playing with a gun, it would be his ass.

There are ways to be responsible with weapons, and there are idiots. The one on the campus earlier today was the latter.

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EdelBrock wrote: There are ways to be responsible with weapons, and there are idiots. The one on the campus earlier today was the latter.

I can't agree with that. This wasn't a guy playing with a gun he didn't know how to handle. This was a guy who intended to kill a lot of people.

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Comrade Shampanyov wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: There are ways to be responsible with weapons, and there are idiots. The one on the campus earlier today was the latter.

I can't agree with that. This wasn't a guy playing with a gun he didn't know how to handle. This was a guy who intended to kill a lot of people.

Ok, but he was still an idiot.:baby:

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