Gun laws

Guns don't kill people, to be sure. Guns in the hands of psychos like this guy kill people. The fact that he managed to buy them legally, and for a pretty fair price, suggests that maybe we should do a better job of screening the folks who buy them. For every law-abiding citizen who simply wants one for protection, there's one guy or gal who has a beef and can't take it out except through violence.

Taboo # 7 wrote: Guns don't kill people, to be sure. Guns in the hands of psychos like this guy kill people. The fact that he managed to buy them legally, and for a pretty fair price, suggests that maybe we should do a better job of screening the folks who buy them. For every law-abiding citizen who simply wants one for protection, there's one guy or gal who has a beef and can't take it out except through violence.

Tabsy, is this your one serious post for the year?

Shellshocker wrote:

Taboo # 7 wrote: Guns don't kill people, to be sure. Guns in the hands of psychos like this guy kill people. The fact that he managed to buy them legally, and for a pretty fair price, suggests that maybe we should do a better job of screening the folks who buy them. For every law-abiding citizen who simply wants one for protection, there's one guy or gal who has a beef and can't take it out except through violence.

Tabsy, is this your one serious post for the year?

Probably

£50 Note wrote: The social and political climate in this country grows more toxic every day, and until the new Democratic Congress begins impeachment proceedings I won't feel safe from this administration.

I don't want to own a gun, but I will defend myself against an oppressive government if I have to - and as an openly gay, educated athiest that day may come sooner than anyone dares to think.

Is V For Vendetta your favorite movie?

Taboo # 7 wrote: The fact that he managed to buy them legally, and for a pretty fair price, suggests that maybe we should do a better job of screening the folks who buy them.

This I agree with. I feel that that the problem is that the screening process is done too quickly and things get missed. I don’t think that screening alone will ever completely stop something like this from happening; mostly due to people who want to get their hands on guns will find other ways to do it; if they get turned down during the screening process.

Psy

Fingers wrote:

Comrade Shampanyov wrote: Once again, you've hit the nail squarely on the head, 404 Error. Bizarre country, the U.S., split down the middle the way it is.

I've been having similar thoughts about the so-called United States of America recently. There are differences of opinion in other countries but whilst in the UK the centre ground of politics has become crowded in the last decade the USA seems to be polarising into two groups (conservatives and liberals), each of which has their own heartlands. I can imagine these two bitterly opposed groups eventually deciding to divide the USA into two separate countries, one where evolution is taught in schools, abortion is legal and gun ownership is heavily restricted and another where creationism is taught in schools, abortion is illegal and gun ownership is almost unrestricted.

It's not an original theory: in 2004 there was a message board discussion about "Jesusland" and someone created a map showing Jesusland and "The United States of Canada" and this idea has been discussed in newspaper articles. However, I think this theory will become a reality and I think it could happen soon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesusland_map

Ths US has been much closer to dissolution in the past and it never happened. The slavery issue was much more divisive and threatened the union from the time before the Consitution was even written. Other things like how the countries debts should be paid after independence was achieved also threatened to destroy the union. Still didn't happen, so I can;t believe it's gonna happen any time soon. OK, so there was that little thing called the Civil War, but e'en so...Of course, the polititions were more, for lack of a better word off the top of my head, noble back then. In spite of their big differences, they remained commited to keeping the country together. P.S. Just in case, I'm glad to see I'll be in the United States of Canada. :)

Taboo # 7 wrote:

Shellshocker wrote:

Taboo # 7 wrote: Guns don't kill people, to be sure. Guns in the hands of psychos like this guy kill people. The fact that he managed to buy them legally, and for a pretty fair price, suggests that maybe we should do a better job of screening the folks who buy them. For every law-abiding citizen who simply wants one for protection, there's one guy or gal who has a beef and can't take it out except through violence.

Tabsy, is this your one serious post for the year?

Probably

I'd throw in my 2 cents on the matter, but it seems like everyone else has it pretty well covered.

404 error wrote:

What's struck me, in my very limited experience, is that I've known Americans (and Canadians) who owned guns who were perfectly normal decent ordinary people, whereas the only Brits I've encountered who were into guns (members of a gun club) were, well, a bit odd. (Out of curiosity I tried a session in the gun club once - completely boring, making holes in a bit of paper at the end of a room - what _is_ the point? Why legalise lethal hardware just for such a dull 'sport'?)

In the US people own them for hunting and out of a sort of philosophical conviction that they are entitled to defend themselves...here they are not part of the culture and it seems only the oddballs actually want them. (And far fewer criminals have them, and burglars strike when homes are empty not occupied as they are wont to in the US).

But still, it is true that by most crime stats Brits are easily as violent, if not more so, than Americans (probably why we rush to join in every war thats on offer, no matter how ill-advised it is), yet we don't kill nearly as many people. Which does suggest that gun availabilty makes a difference. But can you ride roughshod over many people's cultural identity just to put a brake on an increase in violence that is ultimately caused by something else (that 'something else' I'd say in the UK's case is 25 years of no-such-thing-as-society all-that-matters-is-how-much-bling-you-have Thatcherism). If I were an American politician I'd stand on the platform 'guns don't kill people, unrestrained capitalism kills people' and thus alienate everyone and get no votes at all.

Actually I think American culture is much less aggressive and violent than British culture. Maybe its true that 'an armed society is a polite society'. Brits are drunken aggressive and rude, but will only give you a kicking at worst, while Americans are polite and good natured, right up to the moment when they shoot you.

I think that crime and violence are mainly caused by large socio-economic differences between the classes (i.e., when poverty is high, so is crime) and I also think that drug abuse is a big cause (e.g., people needing money for drugs). A relatively small percentage caused by mental illness. I agree with you that removing handguns won't lower crime, but that it will reduce the murder rate, since it's obviously much easier to kill someone with a gun than by other means.

So that's my two cents for what it's worth, which is probably only a cent and a half. :)

Ironwill wrote: Fact: In Florida, a state that has allowed concealed carry since late 1987, you are twice as likely to be attacked by an alligator than a person with a concealed carry permit. - Florida Department of State, “Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report”, 1998 – Florida Game andFresh Water Fish Commission, December 1998

Crazy gators!

What are the stats on an alligator with a gun

Doctor? wrote: Obviously there is no corelation between owning a gun and shooting someone, and not owning a gun and not shooting someone.

Could not have put it beter myself Doc

Minx wrote:

Ironwill wrote: Fact: In Florida, a state that has allowed concealed carry since late 1987, you are twice as likely to be attacked by an alligator than a person with a concealed carry permit. - Florida Department of State, “Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report”, 1998 – Florida Game andFresh Water Fish Commission, December 1998

Crazy gators!

What are the stats on an alligator with a gun

Well, from an animal rights anti-hunting viewpoint one could perhaps argue for the right to arm bears.

Shellshocker wrote: Is V For Vendetta your favorite movie?

No, I'm not generally entertained by dystopain society.

404 error wrote:

Minx wrote:

Ironwill wrote: Fact: In Florida, a state that has allowed concealed carry since late 1987, you are twice as likely to be attacked by an alligator than a person with a concealed carry permit. - Florida Department of State, “Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report”, 1998 – Florida Game andFresh Water Fish Commission, December 1998

Crazy gators!

What are the stats on an alligator with a gun

Well, from an animal rights anti-hunting viewpoint one could perhaps argue for the right to arm bears.

£50 Note wrote:

Shellshocker wrote: Is V For Vendetta your favorite movie?

No, I'm not generally entertained by dystopain society.

Sounds painful. Can't you get some kind of Rennie or something?

£50 Note wrote:

Shellshocker wrote: Is V For Vendetta your favorite movie?

No, I'm not generally entertained by dystopain society.

Well, that's the point. The "hero" fights against the dytopian society.

oldmonkey wrote: Sounds painful. Can't you get some kind of Rennie or something?

It's not too bad if I keep drinking. ;)

This is great......the 1944 Miss America uses her gun to shoot out the tires on a would-be-thief.....while balanced on her walker.

Great shot, wish there were more like her.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18237342/?GT1=9246