PARKY RAPES STILL-LUKEWARM CORPSE OF JADE GOODY....

....in bid for relevance, presumably:

COME RIDE THE CANCEROUS BANDWAGON OF CELEBRITY DEATH!!!!

Succinct and absolutely to the point, long overdue. Would love to see him debate this with Clifford.

i'm with parky on this, 100%

no-nonsense Yorkshireman says what we're all thinking. nowt new there then lad. did you see the pantomime of her funeral live on sky news on saturday?

Parky is spot on except for one thing. Goody made use of the media in her final days to benefit her sons. Good on her for that. Otherwise I'll always see her as a thick useless chav (well aren't they all?) who was in the right place at the right time to be used by the media.

Andy Harris wrote: Parky is spot on except for one thing. Goody made use of the media in her final days to benefit her sons. Good on her for that. Otherwise I'll always see her as a thick useless chav (well aren't they all?) who was in the right place at the right time to be used by the media.

I understand your point but I object to Cliffords eulogy where he stated that she was doing it so her sons would have a better education than she did. Jade Goody probably had a good education but would not take advantage of it, she probably affected the learning of the other pupils in her class who did want to learn but couldn't. Just another bloody parasite.

Parky is a sycophantic prick of an interviewer who is, and always has been, full of his own self-importance. It's a sad day when he's held up as the voice of common sense.

James Thomas wrote:

Andy Harris wrote: Parky is spot on except for one thing. Goody made use of the media in her final days to benefit her sons. Good on her for that. Otherwise I'll always see her as a thick useless chav (well aren't they all?) who was in the right place at the right time to be used by the media.

I understand your point but I object to Cliffords eulogy where he stated that she was doing it so her sons would have a better education than she did. Jade Goody probably had a good education but would not take advantage of it, she probably affected the learning of the other pupils in her class who did want to learn but couldn't. Just another bloody parasite .

And this week's award for the use of baseless presumptions goes to...the poster above!

GlasVegas wrote:

James Thomas wrote:

Andy Harris wrote: Parky is spot on except for one thing. Goody made use of the media in her final days to benefit her sons. Good on her for that. Otherwise I'll always see her as a thick useless chav (well aren't they all?) who was in the right place at the right time to be used by the media.

I understand your point but I object to Cliffords eulogy where he stated that she was doing it so her sons would have a better education than she did. Jade Goody probably had a good education but would not take advantage of it, she probably affected the learning of the other pupils in her class who did want to learn but couldn't. Just another bloody parasite .

And this week's award for the use of baseless presumptions goes to...the poster above!

Indeed. That's quite a chip you have there on your shoulder, sir.

Coatsey says: James is a nice boy, but often fails to live up to his potential. If he spent more time on his professional duties and refrained from daydreaming about taking over Parky's role as Prince Regent of Grumpy neo-Misogynist Professional Northerners (Yorkshire branch, natch) we might see the best of him. Overall: could do better.

:p

So bullying other pupils and getting expelled is making the most of your opportunities?

James Thomas wrote: So bullying other pupils and getting expelled is making the most of your opportunities?

I think expecting kids in their early teens to "make the most of their opportunities" and have the day-to-day demeanour of proto-30-something middle-class folk is a joke. Especially when said kids are from socially deprived backgrounds.

I seem to remember you telling me that you got a 2:2 at University, Jimbo, and had absolutely no regrets about this 'cos you had a lot of fun. Are you telling me that during this period of your life - as an adult, lest we forget - you made "the most of your opportunities" in your time in Higher Education??!

Hey, teacher: leave them kids alone.

Agreed and I've no problem with her not taking advantage of her education but I think it wrong to state she had a poor education.

Oh and if you are so keen on helping the deprived why didn't you get a career helping them rather than teaching the middle classes how to watch telly? Social deprivation shouldn't be used as an excuse for bad behaviour, except in Guardian world.

James Thomas wrote: Oh and if you are so keen on helping the deprived why didn't you get a career helping them rather than teaching the middle classes how to watch telly? Social deprivation shouldn't be used as an excuse for bad behaviour, except in Guardian world.

Social depravation doesn't excuse anything but it may explain. Unless you think that being brought up by a lone, crack-addicted parent in a run-down tower block has no real effect on how a kid turns out?

Agreed, where did I state otherwise?

I maintain my original points though which are;

1. Pupils that behave like arseholes disadvantage others in the classroom.
2. If you behave like an arsehole through your school years(for whatever reason) and remain uneducated, you are not in a position to claim a poor education, you simply didn't take advantage to what was on offer and therefore are in no position to complain.

James Thomas wrote: Agreed, where did I state otherwise?

I maintain my original points though which are;

1. Pupils that behave like arseholes disadvantage others in the classroom.
2. If you behave like an arsehole through your school years(for whatever reason) and remain uneducated, you are not in a position to claim a poor education, you simply didn't take advantage to what was on offer and therefore are in no position to complain.

Yes, but that's still a 'baseless assumption' regarding Jade Goody, Jimbo. (Unless, of course, I've missed something whilst reading 'The Guardian' and fannying about like a liberal fop watching telly and you have actually taught said "bloody parasite"?)

I'm all for defending your chosen profession from its many detractors, James, but I can assure you that 90% of my teachers at school were both wildly judgmental and hopelessly inept cunts to boot. This is another baseless assumption, but my guess would be that Ms Goody's probably were as well.

Did she get expelled from school for biting someones ear off ("it was only a little bit")?

Hardly the teachers fault is it? Not allowed to DO anything to a pupil who's destroying everyone else's chances.

Everyonr gets the same chance of education in the UK, and since APPARENTLY stupidity is NOT genetic, stupid people WANT to be that way. Some of them are even proud of it.

Nobody in this country can say "I want my kids to get the education I didn't" unless they are 112 and used to work in a mill when they were 7.

Jesus fucking Christ. Anyone who thinks "being stupid" and "having an education" are in any way whatsoever dichotomous terms needs lining up and fucking shooting.

Here's a brief, banal and probably aimless anecdote from my own brief, banal aimless yoof: we are in what was the olden days third year at secondary school. Two lads in my year get caught one lunchtime engaging in non-consensual sexual activity with a girl from the year below. Said lads get dragged into the Deputy head's office and told that there will be police involvement and almost certain expulsion. One lad goes missing for three days. They find him in some woods just outside town hanging from a tree. Turns out he killed himself not because of the shame, or a sense of guilt over what he and friend had 'tried' to do to the girl, but because he was scared of what his dad was going to do to him when he got home. Suicide was preferable, apparently. Said Deputy head was from thereon in a visibly broken man and took early retirement later that academic year. (A few years later the younger brother of the guy who killed himself also killed himself just before he sat his GCSEs. Too much pressure, apparently. And an interesting role model in his elder sibling, obviously.)

No offers of voluntary counselling in 1987, natch. We had a stilted morning assembly the following week, and we all gawped while said Deputy Head cried throughout. Later that same day, lessons were cancelled. Instead, we were provided with some social education sessions, which involved nothing more than a screening of "The Breakfast Club" so that we would know that the staff understood our 'pain'. We were all 13/14.

I was a disruptive little cunt, especially between the ages of 13-15. When they finally got round to expelling me, I was kept in a room under constant supervision lest history repeat itself and I string myself up. I'm sure that it was only the thought of the agonies of the boys and girls on detention in "The Breakfast Club" that prevented me from taking my own sweet, young life. Thank you Judd, Ally, Emilio etc. There but for the grace of God.

I went to a dull, ordinary secondary school in a very dull market town in North Shropshire. Jade Goody bit someone's ear. People's lives are not ruined because some pupils aren't very interested in Tudor History when they're 12.

Blah blah blah.

Doctor? wrote:

Everyone gets the same chance of education in the UK. .

Are you having a laugh?

Honestly, you come away with some belters on these forums but that statement really takes the biscuit.

I can't believe for one second that anyone believes that every young child has equal access to education across the board. What a load of shit. I know this because I dedicated 10 years of my life, through choice, to work specifically with kids and youth who were struggling in school with behavior, learning, home life, prison and gangs, and help them get on the right track in terms of their education, learning and future.

Believe me, I've worked within schools that are in some of the most deprived areas of the UK, where a lot of these schools are in 'special measures' or 'perform badly' and i've worked in some of the top performing schools who have failed with a lot of these youngsters because the school does not want to deal with them. You can't blame this on the kids that go there. Kids have the right to expect the very best education regardless of what school, area or background they come from - but the truth is this simply does not happen within many education establishments.

A child's home life is always going to be a significant factor, the majority of the time, as to how well they will achieve and often shape their behavior - much of which is well beyond their control and regardless of your views and opinions on kids who are challenging every single one of them deserves the understanding and support of the education system. That doesn't mean accepting a child's bad behavior simply on the basis of their background, but it means you have somewhere to start building some bridges and try and make a difference. That is what being a teacher is about.

The truth is for every good teacher and school there are also lot of bad teachers and schools out there and ones who are not interested in working with those children that are more challenging. As in this thread, troubled kids are 'labeled' and blamed but I can assure you that it is never that clear cut, many are let down by our education system and as a result of their personal situations.

If I had the same attitude as some of the things written here, there would be a whole load of kids out there dead, in prison, on heroin, on the streets - not in education, in jobs, or have a future ahead of them. Granted, there are some people you will never be able to reach regardless of what help and education you may offer them, but I am living proof that the majority, given the right education, understanding and support, without being labeled and cast aside, can and will turn their lives around. And i've worked with some of the most challenging.

Any school, and those that work within in it, worth their weight in gold will recognise that there are barriers to learning for many young people, and do their best to remove them, not build them.

Oh, and for the record, i'm dead chuffed my son is getting the school education I could only have dreamed of having - and the last time I looked, I was pushing 32 years old.

GlasVegas wrote:

Doctor? wrote:

Everyone gets the same chance of education in the UK. .

Are you having a laugh?

Honestly, you come away with some belters on these forums but that statement really takes the biscuit.

My apologies, I assumed the mainland was simillar to NI. Here, everyone (not unfortunate enough to get stuck at a church school (oxymoron or what)) goes to the same primary schools. At 11, we sit an exam called the 11+ which helps decide who gets grammar school places (it's more like a lowbrow IQ test than an exam based on knowledge), and who ends up in a high school. Once in highschool, everyone goes to the same classes until 3rd form, when streaming based on exam results is performed.....to determine which GCSE classes they go into. So, here, we all get to listen to the same lessons from the same teachers no matter your background.....for example, in my 1st year class, there were three now-convicted terrorists, and a guy who raped and killed a 75 year old woman. So...same opportunities for all. I just thought it worked that way in the whole country.

As for Frads....well I certainly know that intelligence and education are not interchangable terms, I speak with Doctors all the time who cannot comprehend things that are obvious to hairdressers, I also know numerous very intelligent folks who missed a lot of school due mainly to bullying, and therefor are short of knowledge. This is because, as mentioned above, all the thugs in training go to the same schools as the kids who want to learn in NI,unlike the mainland, where apparently some kids get sent to non-teaching schools or something (I'm still unclear as to exactly why some get taught and some don't).

And I'm with Parky.....anyone who thinks otherwise should ask themselve this question....how would you feel if your baby daughter looked into your eyes and said "I want to be just like Jade!" and proceeded to follow through on her wish. (please note: people like Jade are numerous, those who make a wealth generating career from it are not, so the answer "if she was as rich....blah blah blah" is unacceptable.

Bonzette wrote: I can't believe for one second that anyone believes that every young child has equal access to education across the board. What a load of shit. I know this because I dedicated 10 years of my life, through choice, to work specifically with kids and youth who were struggling in school with behavior, learning, home life, prison and gangs, and help them get on the right track in terms of their education, learning and future.

Believe me, I've worked within schools that are in some of the most deprived areas of the UK, where a lot of these schools are in 'special measures' or 'perform badly' and i've worked in some of the top performing schools who have failed with a lot of these youngsters because the school does not want to deal with them. You can't blame this on the kids that go there. Kids have the right to expect the very best education regardless of what school, area or background they come from - but the truth is this simply does not happen within many education establishments.

A child's home life is always going to be a significant factor, the majority of the time, as to how well they will achieve and often shape their behavior - much of which is well beyond their control and regardless of your views and opinions on kids who are challenging every single one of them deserves the understanding and support of the education system. That doesn't mean accepting a child's bad behavior simply on the basis of their background, but it means you have somewhere to start building some bridges and try and make a difference. That is what being a teacher is about.

The truth is for every good teacher and school there are also lot of bad teachers and schools out there and ones who are not interested in working with those children that are more challenging. As in this thread, troubled kids are 'labeled' and blamed but I can assure you that it is never that clear cut, many are let down by our education system and as a result of their personal situations.

If I had the same attitude as some of the things written here, there would be a whole load of kids out there dead, in prison, on heroin, on the streets - not in education, in jobs, or have a future ahead of them. Granted, there are some people you will never be able to reach regardless of what help and education you may offer them, but I am living proof that the majority, given the right education, understanding and support, without being labeled and cast aside, can and will turn their lives around. And i've worked with some of the most challenging.

Any school, and those that work within in it, worth their weight in gold will recognise that there are barriers to learning for many young people, and do their best to remove them, not build them.

Oh, and for the record, i'm dead chuffed my son is getting the school education I could only have dreamed of having - and the last time I looked, I was pushing 32 years old.

You can take a horse to water etc etc etc. They still all get the same schools and same teachers, that's the same opportunity is it not? It's surely up to them if they want to go shoplifting instead of attend double maths?

Question for you.....how would you feel knowing that one of Joe's teachers was spending 10 times as much time working with a kid who beats Joe up on the way home from school everyday? It goes both ways you see....there may be some kids who have asshole parents who keep them off school or wont let them do homework who suffer because the class is geared to the more responsibly parented/harder working kids.....but at the same time, the more adept kids can suffer because teacher time is devoted to getting a stubborn 11 year old to read (not dyslexic, not impaired, just a wee cunt, we had several in my high school). I'm not that far off your age, and I doubt kids get a better education than I did.....for example, "computer studies" in a modern school apparently involves training them to use MS0-Turd instead of anything about computers. Education counts for FUCK all for employers these days anyway, they WANT morons who an be trained chimp-fashion rather then people with a good general knowledge of facts and how stuff works. The want people who watch Big Brother and Room 101.....not a cunt that actually read 1984.

Doctor? wrote:

They still all get the same schools and same teachers, that's the same opportunity is it not? .

And this weeks award for the gross simplification of a subject goes to...the poster above!

I didn't realise that schools and teachers were the 'same' eveywhere. Funny because back in my day we had good teachers and we had shite teachers just as we had good schools and we had shite schools. Glad they've sorted that now.

Are pupils all the 'same' now as well? Because in my class you had some kids that had left the house in the morning with a breakfast inside them and a clean shirt while others hadn't been fed and were wearing a shirt that their ma's hadn't washed for weeks. It's weird cos see the kids that had been fed and dressed properly? They tended to do better at exams and stuff than the other ones. Despite having exactly the same opportunity. Weird that eh?

Doctor? wrote: The want people who watch Big Brother and Room 101.....not a cunt that actually read 1984.

I didn't know this was the gauge to measure intellegence, if so I'm doubly smartest!

El Jarvo wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

Doctor? wrote: The want people who watch Big Brother and Room 101.....not a cunt that actually read 1984.

I didn't know this was the gauge to measure intellegence, if so I'm doubly smartest!

Oh, the irony!

**NOTE**

There is another mistake that somehow flew under the radar...

I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.

:p

Cambo,

No school, teacher or pupil are the same, that's a fact. There is proof that this is not the case. Can't see how you can use that at as an argument, it's beyond comprehension.

As a parent, if Joe was being beaten up, i'd make damn fucking sure the school dealt with it appropriately with all the circumstances taken into consideration taking the appropriate action. I'd make sure it didn't happen again. What did you think I would say? It's ok because I work with challenging kids? Or give up on the kid because he hurt mine and doesn't deserve ever to have a life and education for that reason?

I know that in my 10 year career in education, not once did any of the kids in trouble or disruptive receive any higher amount of support and learning than any other child in the classroom behaving. Depending on circumstances, some were worked with on a one-to-one basis, groups or I managed the behavior and issues within the mainstream classroom without disruption to others learning. But it was all equal. They were not treated as 'special' it is just a different approach.

And it amazes me that the assumption is that bullies are simply kids from estates and working class families. You'll find a lot of the bullying that takes place is from kids who behave perfectly within school and school settings and are perceived as incapable of bullying anyone. Just because someone is from a more privileged background, is well educated etc, etc....doesn't mean they automatically qualify as being a perfect nice person without a nasty streak running through them, they can often be the worse offenders, not one of these 'arseholes' you keep making reference to.

You and I are nothing the same, and I can tell you that the standard of education that my son receives is a world away from that i experienced, and that is a fact. The same way that the education you and I had was a world apart.

Have to agree with Bonzette here. Granted I'm working in US school districts (as a glorious substitute), and yer talking about UK schools, but there is no way two schools are at all the same.

That people blame socioeconomic demographics on bad schooling, I think is wrong. It has to do with how administrators decide to set the school up and the policies they set. The enviroment is set by these parameters. I've seen excellent schools (I would even want my kids to go to) in very poor areas; and I've seen terrible schools in affluent areas (that would cause me to move away if my kids were to go there).

I work in five school districts, but I will focus on only two because they have the exact same demographics as in race and socioeconomic backgrounds. All house classic suburban, white, upper-middle-class kids, within a 15 mile radius. In one school district, the students in all three high schools are less disruptive in class, get along better with each other, and is a condusive learning enviroment. The other school district has 3 out of four high schools that feel close to prison; students don't get along with each other, kids aren't at school for an education (more so than your average teenager).
This has everything to do with the administrators' policies, it starts from above and trickles down.