NOOL Day Manchester - FAO Tim, Steve etc..

Jabez Clegg provisionally booked for Easter Monday, will get costs later.

I'm out of my depth now, need some advice from you guys about equipment, promotions etc.

Got this message from my mate "I have talked to the guys at Jabez and they have provisionally booked you in for Easter Monday. They have a few questions about equipment hire etc (ie do you need any equipment), I could see if we can get any promotions and such. They will need to know start times, access times etc."

If the cost is reasonable can I put the manager in touch with one of you lot?

Is Monty gonna do a 'neworderdisco' ?

Well, we need to know if there's anything in house that we can use. If they have an inhouse disco type thing, then, we could use that, unless we're defo having bands.

Odd that they want to know, usually that's our business.

Anyway, once we knoe what we're having, I can make a better guess. Dave A. has a mixer that will do the trick no matter what, it's just a question of whether we can scrounge up enough main noise speakers.

Then I'll need a little help from anyone who's in a band or has mates in a band, in and around greater manc.....why...so i don't phone up the local shit-box hire firm, and get gear that the Mondays used to use :)

There are 2 ways we can go...

Disco only (potentially with asshole karaoke from a lapper, all we need is a mic, a DI box if anyone wants to make a bap of themselves and an FX unit (or software)). BTW, if we don't manage to get some nice MIDI based backings for karaoke, there's nothing stopping us all from just bawling over the top of a record, there are ways and means of vocal reduction too. Anyway, that's just a sick plan to see us all make total breasts of ourselves. Lights=fog+strobe any questions? At most for this, we'll need just a sound rig (I'm guessing between us, we can scrounge up a pair of SL12nn's a mixer and a coupla clever cd players.)

Or The full Monty, with 2 or 3 bands and a full sound rig with montiors and lights. This is obviously the way to do a good night's entertainment. However there are downsides. there could be a LOT of hire involved....a main front of house PA, another 2 stereo amps for monitors (and some 31band graphics for feedback ringing....do people still do that or have eliminators totaly taken over, I been out of the loop a coupla years), mics, stands, cables and proper lighting (potentially involving a lighting console and someone who actually knows about light to set it up and run it). That is big bucks, depending on expected attendance. It also amounts to a full day's setup work to do it right (we're not a touring unit who's been setting and breaking the same gear 4 times a week for a few months, this will essentially be a prototyping gig for multiple bands, wrinkles will need ironing). I don't mind cos it keeps me from the football, but each band will need a rep there at most times, and one who actually knows stuff about the other players and all. And the WORST drawback of all is that some poor cunt's gotta take it all aprt blocked, and then get up the next day and take it all home.

My feeling would be that we keep it fairly simple....

We do for a basic disco type setup, but we add the following items....

A laptop (or a desktop) that cam be used for playing in mp3s (or MIDIs), and providing effects. (this will need some SERIOUS discussion among the geeks here before we do anything, you all know why) A small non dj mixer, a folio notepad might be a bit TOO small, but daves 18 channel thingy would be overkill. I have a Folio 12:2 that I'd gladly donate but, it would NEVER get through customs, the faders are caked in 10 years worth of slightlynarrow studio and club residue. This will give us an access point for mics and, via a couple of DI boxen, guitars and basses, so that even though we don't have a full stage setup we can still let people do a wee turn if the urge takes them. And maybe even a synth for the inclined to jam along on.

No offense to our skinbasher contingent but the essential difference between doing this on the cheap and doing this expensively, is "do we have drummers".

So anyway, what size is the place, is there a dj booth or are we builing our own isolation. And do they really want to handle gear hire for us?

I'm guessing they can provide all the stuff for a DJ as the room converts to a mini-club.

I should have more details soon.

Barney Army wrote: I'm guessing they can provide all the stuff for a DJ as the room converts to a mini-club.

I should have more details soon.

If that's the case then the "halfway house" option I detailed would be an absolute stress-free pisshead friendly laugh.

ummm, just a thought but we dont really know how many are coming. If it's just 20 then we may as well just go to the pub!!!

But if it's 100 or so then fine.

I notice the London order have been quiet on this

Is it being strictly limited to people from the site or is anyone welcome? Presumably, anyone is, especially is there is money at stake.

Right, before we go any further.......

Thanks Nick for putting a provisional down on Jabez Clegg. It really will depend on how much the hire is, I would be looking for it to be a lot cheaper than the normal rate, as it is a Monday and at a time when their usual clientele are away, so they have no excuse for charging us the full rate. I would be hoping for a deal whereby they keep all the bar takings, we cover the rate of any additional bar staff required, we keep the door takings (it will have to be tickets only).

If this is going to happen, we need the following (in no particular order)

• Bands (plus band sound men, vehicle hire)
• crew (volunteers or hire)
• DJs (volunteers)
• punters (NOOLers and others)
• ticket sales (through the organisers (i.e. us) – no tickets on door as cashflow projection required)
• advertising/promotional material (volunteers)
• punter accommodation (I will research this)
• charity backing (assuming we are intending to promote this in conjunction with a charity, I would recommend we support Cancer Research, who would thus contribute to the promotional campaign and receive a cut of the takings)

To start with, it will cost both Digital and Re: Order to travel up to Manchester, i.e. a van each for the gear, and a car each for the band members. Flight would also need transport from Liverpool. These costs would have to be factored into the overheads and running costs, and added to the venue hire, promo material production/media advertising costs/charity projection, and from this we would be able to project a suitable ticket price.

We will need expressions of interest from NOOLers, obviously this won’t have the same draw as the Order itself, but I would be reasonably optimistic of 100+ attendance. Should we be able to persuade Hooky to make an appearance, I would expect the attendance would increase, but we can’t rely on that.

Until we know what Jabez would propose on hire costs (and what else they can provide in-house) we may have to park certain aspects of this for a few days.

I will happily project manage the whole event, and contact the venue, source the accommodation, contact the charity etc and establish charity status (which will convert many of our costs in tax status etc).

Tim, you obviously know what you are doing here. Shall I get the contact details for the manager and pass on to you?

I'm happy to help in any way I can.

I will happily assist with security on the door to frisk all the ladies. And anyone found with a soft drink inside will be ejected, after public humiliation.

Barney Army wrote: Tim, you obviously know what you are doing here. Shall I get the contact details for the manager and pass on to you?

I'm happy to help in any way I can.

I will happily assist with security on the door to frisk all the ladies. And anyone found with a soft drink inside will be ejected, after public humiliation.

Yes please. I'll be able to get a feel for what they can provide etc. Obviously this sort of weds us to the April slot, so it may be best to give it a few days before getting the contact details for the manager, as we will need a date decision before negotiating.

As for snss....it may just be me, i'll need to ask Rich. I don't think we have a car available....so we may actually be talking about me having to freight over a PC and a bass! Presumably to one of you guys. then again, me bass made it to America in a gigbag in the hold of the plane.

We really wont need to hire a crew, there's enough savvy and semi savvy and enthusiastic people here to crew any gig.

Things we need to know to help tie down costs, and can do to keep them down...

Our bands, how many monitor feeds can we keep it to? More than 4 and really, we're gonna need a console (refer to my previous 1600 posts about monitor desks and why they are bad). 4 feeds and a group-out used to feed some side fills if needed is about the realistic limit of most consoles and my brain. that's still 3 more medium output power amps and 6 more speakers.

Is the in-house system avalable to us, and is it capable of working in a reinforcement role against a drumset. Putting a band through a club rig never ever works out well....but if the sound system that's there has been installed "band wise" ie, all at the front near the stage, we MIGHT get away with it.

Lights...lights are, to be blunt...fucking expensive. we need to know what's there. If the venue is often used for bands, then there's a fair chance it'll have a few power cans pointed on the stage, and if it's used as a club, they may well have some fun things too. However, if the in house lights are a bit pissy...we are gonna have to think long and hard about what we want. A couple of dimmer racks, a dozen cans, a couple of spots, amd a console (and someone to at least set it up...i fucking hate 3 phase, and hate being within 6 feet of a dimmer rack even more...doubly so when all the lamps are off....shuddering just thinking about it)...even a modest rig like that is ££££££. And if we want to play with varilight/intellibeams the cost will be sick and wrong.

I like the lighting on PFD...you all do too, let's make that our model :)

there's a load of other things, but the above are the big technical cost points.

ONE OTHER VITAL...... get the drummers talking to each other ASAP! If we can keep it to one kit, the crew can drink, if not, we need at least 3 guys who are stone cold sober and can not only help a drummer derig and rig, but can slo position mics like a surgeon, or it WILL all go very very wrong (OR we hire 3 times the number of mics we neeed, and I get in training for running from one end of a 72 chanel console to the other :) ). Ideally, you should each tell your drummer that one of the other bands is bringing a £12000 custom drumset and they won't need theirs :)

We needn't worry about either lights or sound systems, it's a proper venue with in-house gear.

As for drum kits, fear not, this is already well-established. Even down to the Roland drum pads, MIDI triggers, sequencers etc. Dealing with pros here Steve!

Nothing is gonna get overscaled, believe me. There are distinct advantages to being involved with a charity - wider publicity, lower costs on venue hire, greater sense of wanting to become involved and community spirit.

If anything, I am going to be more inclined to want to make the event exclusive, have only a set amount of tickets available. That depends on the capacity of the venue. Assuming Jabez (and this is a baseline, no guarantees that we will be working with Jabez yet, that depends on what deal I can strike on costs) holds 500, that would give plenty of scope for fundraising once the overheads have been met (and having a charity onboard lowers the overheads). I would hope that I can strike a beer sales deal with the venue, that they take the beer money and we pay them only the cost of any additional staff, rather than a venue hire charge. There are plenty of venues that will be available free of charge after all.

All bands/DJs taking part will be doing so for expenses only, plus maybe a rider. Expenses will be factored into the overheads and paid accordingly. Nobody who is giving up their services and time will be out of pocket. If we have four bands, one travelling from Liverpool, two from London, one local, plus a couple of local DJs, we will know what the van/PA hire will be. You never know, we may be able to persuade a local PA company to join in the fun from a Gift Aid perspective.

Costs are thus van hire, maybe PA hire, probably a couple of door staff (volunteers appreciated), bands rider, promotion and publicity materials (as we are probably talking 500 tickets max for production, these would probably incur a slightly higher set-up cost, which would have to be swallowed in the overheads). If we charge £10 a ticket (for a whole day of bands and DJs, pretty good value), only 100 attending would still see us turning the best part of £400 for the charity. Obviously we put a sliding scale in place for charity cut from the event, with a ceiling in place that if the venue is full, then the bands could turn a small profit as well.

We could also consider, but very much as a secondary angle, the production of badges, T-shirts for the event, and even sell gig audio/video recordings afterwards, all from the perspective that we look to cover costs first, then contribute to the charity/feed profits back into the event. We don’t want a situation where the one angle ends up funding the other, such as the T-shirts making a loss and costs eating into the event, so these would need to be treated as separate but complimentary workstreams. Oh shit I just started talking consultant speak for the first time in all this!

You've thought this out. :)

Pro's you say.....not particularly accurate for a NO tribute band really :D

Only thing is, you keep being this organized, and you'll get stage manager to do on top of everything else :)

We gotta end with records for sure, because it'll give anyone who's had their head in gig mode all day a chance for some post gig fun before kicking out time.

Riders....holy fuck man you really are going pro....mine's a comfy chair, a RedBull I.V. and a talkback mic. Oh and a seat for jem, or Maya, or Sam or whatever one of the lovely NOOLettes wants to keep a lonely desk jockey company :)

Are we gonna be able to cover monitoring from the main desk do you think?

oldmonkey wrote: We needn't worry about either lights or sound systems, it's a proper venue with in-house gear.

As for drum kits, fear not, this is already well-established. Even down to the Roland drum pads, MIDI triggers, sequencers etc. Dealing with pros here Steve!

What, you mean if I say "give me just the snare"...that's what i'll get and not all of ya's tuning and playing your fave riffs and generally being Happy Mondays :D

my band can play for free with no hassle

would be a pretty good laugh

Steve Campbell wrote:

You've thought this out. :)

Pro's you say.....not particularly accurate for a NO tribute band really :D

Only thing is, you keep being this organized, and you'll get stage manager to do on top of everything else :)

We gotta end with records for sure, because it'll give anyone who's had their head in gig mode all day a chance for some post gig fun before kicking out time.

Riders....holy fuck man you really are going pro....mine's a comfy chair, a RedBull I.V. and a talkback mic. Oh and a seat for jem, or Maya, or Sam or whatever one of the lovely NOOLettes wants to keep a lonely desk jockey company :)

Are we gonna be able to cover monitoring from the main desk do you think?

We've shared amps and kit enough times to have looked for the shortcuts and easy ways to get places!

As the idea isn't about the bands taking the profit, like it would be in most gigs, we have to factor soft benefits in, like a case of beer or two backstage. Should be able to get those heavily discounted ;)

Without seeing the venue's tech spec I can't comment on the monitoring, but a whole load of proper bands play there on a regular basis, so it must have some things going for it! I'll head up there for a recce pretty soon, but obviously will speak to the gaffer over the next few days.

Steve Campbell wrote:

oldmonkey wrote: We needn't worry about either lights or sound systems, it's a proper venue with in-house gear.

As for drum kits, fear not, this is already well-established. Even down to the Roland drum pads, MIDI triggers, sequencers etc. Dealing with pros here Steve!

What, you mean if I say "give me just the snare"...that's what i'll get and not all of ya's tuning and playing your fave riffs and generally being Happy Mondays :D

Well, as you come to mention it......if I'm not on stage with guitar in hand you stand better chance of that!

Jack_H wrote: my band can play for free with no hassle

would be a pretty good laugh

Good lad. We shall have to discuss this further. Early days at the moment, a lot of logistics to work through. Glad to have you on board though

bit more info from my mate..

"There will be no charge for the use of Jabez, though they will need to cover costs (not including bar staff as they take the bar takings). The items they would need to charge for would be PA hire (though we could probably sort something as there is a band night in there the night after), and Door staff if you required a late bar, though again I could try and do a deal if you can guarantee numbers (and you can if you are selling tickets in advance). They already have a stage so that would be thrown in, as long as it is big enough. Also if you are going to get a few people coming I could try and get some bar promotions."

will forward the managers contact details when I get them

sure thing

let me know of any developments

Barney Army wrote: bit more info from my mate..

"There will be no charge for the use of Jabez, though they will need to cover costs (not including bar staff as they take the bar takings). The items they would need to charge for would be PA hire (though we could probably sort something as there is a band night in there the night after), and Door staff if you required a late bar, though again I could try and do a deal if you can guarantee numbers (and you can if you are selling tickets in advance). They already have a stage so that would be thrown in, as long as it is big enough. Also if you are going to get a few people coming I could try and get some bar promotions."

will forward the managers contact details when I get them

Fookin' bang on sir! Good work

We can probably source PA hire ourselves. Door staff would be essential. We will be selling tickets in advance, the only way to assure that costs are met and cash flow is guaranteed. Bar promotions are most definitely welcomed!

Jack_H wrote: sure thing

let me know of any developments

Excellent, that brings us to about 4 bands so far plus me and my machine (the full menagerie are not making the trip)

Good job we'll have door staff, I hear some of your relatives are quite rough characters, to say nothing of some of the nefarious characters they hang about with :D

4 bands over the course of an afternoon/evening doesn't sound too hectic now does it :)

oldmonkey wrote:

Barney Army wrote: bit more info from my mate..

"There will be no charge for the use of Jabez, though they will need to cover costs (not including bar staff as they take the bar takings). The items they would need to charge for would be PA hire (though we could probably sort something as there is a band night in there the night after), and Door staff if you required a late bar, though again I could try and do a deal if you can guarantee numbers (and you can if you are selling tickets in advance). They already have a stage so that would be thrown in, as long as it is big enough. Also if you are going to get a few people coming I could try and get some bar promotions."

will forward the managers contact details when I get them

Fookin' bang on sir! Good work

We can probably source PA hire ourselves. Door staff would be essential. We will be selling tickets in advance, the only way to assure that costs are met and cash flow is guaranteed. Bar promotions are most definitely welcomed!

That's not saying we wont take walk in business if it comes, but the party line has to be "ticket only"

As much as it pains me to say it looks like it's gonna be only the NOOL day for me (NOT that I'm saying that sucks, mind!!) therefore I'll gladly help organize things if that's even possible from here, I know much about these things, should be a good practice for my Vrooom on tour in England thing next summer :)

NObabe wrote: As much as it pains me to say it looks like it's gonna be only the NOOL day for me (NOT that I'm saying that sucks, mind!!) therefore I'll gladly help organize things if that's even possible from here, I know much about these things, should be a good practice for my Vrooom on tour in England thing next summer :)

Well a button has fallen off one of my shirts, I could bring it along and you could sew it back on?

How fucking sorted are you gonna be on that gig woman....a man in every fucking city.

Obviously the position of your bit of fluff in greater manc has only just this minute come up vacant.

Barney Army wrote:

NObabe wrote: As much as it pains me to say it looks like it's gonna be only the NOOL day for me (NOT that I'm saying that sucks, mind!!) therefore I'll gladly help organize things if that's even possible from here, I know much about these things, should be a good practice for my Vrooom on tour in England thing next summer :)

Well a button has fallen off one of my shirts, I could bring it along and you could sew it back on?

Yer feckin chauvinist! A woman is also able to do such things you know

reel 'em in...

Anyway, I'm not a chauvanist...ask my wives

So all the bands are basically Drums, bass, 1 machinist and 1-14 guitars then?

Are we miking guitar amps, or does anyone have an Orange or AC30? (this is just a ploy to smoke you out, it's a charity gig, we can't afford a 25Kw rig to compete with your "30W" amp. :D), serisouly tho, one of those could throw a guitar into a good sized space unaided, then again, it's nice to have them in the PA a touch for balance sake, and there's always the tapes.....available from Steve's DAT machine 10 mins after the gig, all proceeds to my beer fun....aw fuck all right, the do-gooders.

OldMonkey, you sound like you've been doing this shit regularly recently, DO people still use EQ's to ring the feedback out of monitors or have gizmos totally taken over? hey even NO can run feedback free these days! (with the notable exception of moments of idiocy, like a 30 year veteran vocalist cupping his hands round a live mic in front of a wedge....I really do marvel at bernard sometimes)

it's been a good 5 years since I've flown "da big rig" for a full band (actually for about 8 bands, some of them with 9 members)[1], and back in them days, the feedback eliminator was an exotic bit of kit with a stupid price tag (fucking hovis music's fading up here). So it was strictly a 31 band graphic and ring the shit out of the place...then give someone a torch and a salt gun and tell them to watch the wedges and mics. Oddly enough, the 14 piece jazz insanity groove band i played with typically shoved the horns thru an old bass amp, and everyone else fended for themselves on backline....sounded fine too. I dunno, I think I'm freaking a teeny bit. Not cos i can't hack it, I can. But i don't want to be prepping myself for Wembley, and rack of gates and compressors and more eq than I'll ever need, and spending proper time doing drum gating (not that that'll be any issue if we're all electric), and all the other niceties of a proper pro gig....and it'll be a great old pub knockabout job. Not that I will object in any way, I'll just have foamed my wee brain up for fuck all beforehand.

Conversely of course I don't want to dander in there thinking I'm plugging up a coupla of mics and a DI...ad be presented with "Der Blinkenlichten" in huge quantities.

Meet Steve's pregig stress system....gig=stress that's a fact of life. So I like to get it all over and done with before hand and go through every moronically unlikely scenario a million times. Consequently, when the bass amp lets out the magic white smoke that makes it work, half way through a song on gig night, I simply reacted according to plan. Some of the jazz band gigs and college based stuff was aflicted with Rudolph Steiner schooled hippy offspring, who, weile lovely people, had a horendous tendancy to say things like "don't worry about it man, it'll be OK"...of course it always was....but it still left stress in me head on gig day.

Sit back and enjoy my descent into insaity over the next few months, then come the day, watch me be cool (cool being a relative term).

I HAVE been practising talkback abuse in a brilliant Hannet-esque voice (well the bloke in 24hpp...golum). But of course I can't fuck off and come back when it's worthwhile sounding :)

And of course, you gave me a wee shock with the scope of the "event" we're creating....so you know....top of the game and all. I don't want to cack it all up on you. Although I suspect there will be enough critical ears about that if i lose the plot, I'll get replaced right and quick :D

Oh....(where the FUCK is that columbo smiley I recently rudely demanded) The stage manager is going to have to know everything about swapping bands in and out....shortlist for the job looks shorter all the time :)

[1] that reminds me....anyone here ever used speakers called "community"? Ever seen their little trick? it's the most mind-bucklingly useful feature I ever seen. Shame they are brutally inefficient.