To those of you who hate Subculture

Originally posted by martin fradley > Originally posted by Joshua B> To me it seems like you make a joke out of all on-topic, relevent New Order discussion.

To recap: Americans, irony.......like, whatever. damn you sound like a Valley girl, have you ever been to the San Fernando Valley?? Ever been to the Northridge Mall?

Originally posted by Deadly Viper Assassination Squad > Originally posted by martin fradley> > > > Originally posted by Joshua B> > To me it seems like you make a joke out of all on-topic, relevent New Order discussion.>

To recap: Americans, irony.......like, whatever. damn you sound like a Valley girl, have you ever been to the San Fernando Valley?? Ever been to the Northridge Mall?

Yeah, I lost my virginity at the Northridge Mall......

[Just in case this flares up: yes, I was being flippant and glib, and have all the love in the world for our cross-Atlantic cousins, its just that there's more to life than discussing pop music, and there's much more to this forum than the on-topic, as many largely AWOL NOOLers would doubtless attest).

Originally posted by Joshua B To me it seems like you make a joke out of all on-topic, relevent New Order discussion.

Only when I hear them for the 586th time. Try doing some research with the search facility and looking up the previous dozen times this thread has been started by a newbie !

Originally posted by Mr Carbohydrate This has been buggering me for a while

lets recap:

Subculture - a tale of the two headed monster

SubCulture album version = GOOD SubCulture Record Mirror Mix = V.GOOD SubCulture (Robie Mixes) = V.SHITE (unless you like wailing, wannabe diva's) SubCulture Live 85-87 = V.V.GOOD

so, to sum up, subculture is a good song. one of my favorites in it's original/RM/life form, but irritating and mindboggling in it's J.Robie Remix state. Most people share this same opinion but the beauty of being alive is coexisting with people who have differing opinions. it doesn't mean you're any less a fan/more a fan if you like the Robie Mixes, just easier to please (that last bit is a joke for those unable to decipher humor).

I'd rather discuss actual NewOrder topics than the ones that get floated these days but we'll have to wait for some new product or new rumors before the serious discussions take off.

Originally posted by KnownPleasures > Originally posted by Joshua B> To me it seems like you make a joke out of all on-topic, relevent New Order discussion.

Only when I hear them for the 586th time. Try doing some research with the search facility and looking up the previous dozen times this thread has been started by a newbie !

And I would say stop trying to sabotage topics that bore you.

john robie did nice work with shell-shock but made an absolute pigs of sub-cunture. low life version is neat and tidy and it never really upset me or excited me when they played it live.. can never be arsed to check stats...but if memory serves me right it got alot of airtime during 85-86 gigs...tim???

Nothing really to add to this debate apart from the obvious. I went from being elated when I heard Sub-culture was to be a single to prozac when I heard the John Robie remix. Coincidentally, I had been discussing the possibility of female backing vocals on New Order tracks at that time.

Originally posted by Joshua B > Originally posted by KnownPleasures > Originally posted by Joshua B> To me it seems like you make a joke out of all on-topic, relevent New Order discussion.

Only when I hear them for the 586th time. Try doing some research with the search facility and looking up the previous dozen times this thread has been started by a newbie !

And I would say stop trying to sabotage topics that bore you.

Tim

You are disrespecting the laws.You have the right to find a lawyer to defend you on this case

In blessed America,justice is blind

just to throw a spanner in the works here..i loved the album version...liked the record mirror version even more...thought the 12 "remix was dull......But the RaZoRmAid version (with the strange east european flat sounding female singer) was bloody awe inspiring.....l8 everyone ..helllo to julio and rocketmick

Originally posted by phillip lockhart just to throw a spanner in the works here..i loved the album version...liked the record mirror version even more...thought the 12 "remix was dull......But the RaZoRmAid version (with the strange east european flat sounding female singer) was bloody awe inspiring.....l8 everyone ..helllo to julio and rocketmick

Cheers Phil

Get ready to listen to your cds Phil

You will like them a lot

Originally posted by Joshua B > Originally posted by KnownPleasures > Originally posted by Joshua B> To me it seems like you make a joke out of all on-topic, relevent New Order discussion.

Only when I hear them for the 586th time. Try doing some research with the search facility and looking up the previous dozen times this thread has been started by a newbie !

And I would say stop trying to sabotage topics that bore you.

Do you know what I would say ? I'll give you a clue. The second word isn't "on".

Originally posted by phillip lockhart just to throw a spanner in the works here..i loved the album version...liked the record mirror version even more...thought the 12 "remix was dull......But the RaZoRmAid version (with the strange east european flat sounding female singer) was bloody awe inspiring.....l8 everyone ..helllo to julio and rocketmick

The DEBORAH LYALL mix or something like that is CLASSIC.Is this the one you mean? And HELLO from ROCKET MICK:D

Originally posted by Chris I love the original of 'Subculture' and the Record Mirror version.The reason I don't like the Substance version is because (and I've said this before) the bass synth/sequence seems out of time with the rest of the track. It might just be me, but that makes the track unlistenable.

Thats the flipside (DubVulture). It makes sense if you crank it up really loud...the bass throbs so you don't notice its out of time. I like it actually, its got some good noises on it.

Its a shame New Order don't write 8 minute pop songs with big endings anymore. Good synth noises on it as well.

record mirror version is the best mix for me,although the album version is just fine too. i was washing the car yesterday and had n/o blasting out from the garage on some old tape i dug out. what comes on but shellshock (im not sure which mix)but even ive got to admit it was probally one of their (barney )most like,over indulgent durges ive heard ,i even went and flicked the tape over

Originally posted by HaciendaThat I prefer the LowLife version and the Record Mirror version.

Just to make sure we are all at the same level... The Record Mirror version is identical to Razormaid's first remix (v1.0). The only difference is that the RM version starts fading out. The Razormaid release has a much, much better sound quality. So what do you say now about Razormaid?

/TLV

I've always liked the Low-life version of Subculture, and, for a brief period, the Substance remixed version as well. But, after a while, the latter seemed incredibly synthetic, especially with all of those brassy sounds that are obviously synthesized. And, then, there's that false ending/stopping thing near the end. The first time I heard it, I thought my CD was skipping. Also, Barney's vocals seem incredibly out of place in the remix, although they seem perfectly fine with the moody atmosphere of the original.

Originally posted by Androgynous kid with a camera that follows you I've always liked the Low-life version of Subculture, and, for a brief period, the Substance remixed version as well. But, after a while, the latter seemed incredibly synthetic, especially with all of those brassy sounds that are obviously synthesized. And, then, there's that false ending/stopping thing near the end. The first time I heard it, I thought my CD was skipping. Also, Barney's vocals seem incredibly out of place in the remix, although they seem perfectly fine with the moody atmosphere of the original.

Subculture makes me a New order fan in 1988

Originally posted by Spotnick Record Mirror is actually an edit of the Razormaid Mix guys... you can say Razormaid did something good for New Order.

I have discussed this with -1. Is it really an edit if the only difference is that one version is reducing the volume to fade out the track 1:30 or so before the real end?

If that's the case, I can make my own unique edits of every track available and sell them on eBay.

/TLV

Originally posted by Spotnick I don't like the Deborah Lyall mix at ALL... sorry! Neither do I like backing vocals on NO tracks ;)

Completely agreed. I hate "Shame of the Nation" mainly because of that.

Originally posted by Spotnick Record Mirror is actually an edit of the Razormaid Mix guys... you can say Razormaid did something good for New Order.I don't like the Deborah Lyall mix at ALL... sorry! Neither do I like backing vocals on NO tracks ;)

Yep, amazing though it sounds, Razormaid did do something useful, and as it was freely distributed originally I guess they don't mind us sharing it round eh?

Otherwise, I have to agree that Subculture is something of an earsore.

However, I can't share the down on backing vocals, I find Dawn(?) on 516 a pleasant distraction (aurally I mean!). If the 2nd guitarist (or Hooky) sings backing vocals do you not like that either?

The Razormaid version (which I had originally heard in it's Record Mirror edit guise) is one of the finest Neworder songs I have heard.

A big thanks to RMStudios for the CDr

Originally posted by death of art > Originally posted by Spotnick> I don't like the Deborah Lyall mix at ALL... sorry! Neither do I like backing vocals on NO tracks ;)

Completely agreed. I hate "Shame of the Nation" mainly because of that.

So you hate Crystal,Someone Like You,Close Range & Brutal

Originally posted by Spotnick I guess people don't like the single version of Subculture, but most like the album version...But for people like me who learned to love the track with Substance, it was a shock to listen to the original version, let's say I had troubles with it at first....So I like both, but these days I listen to the album version a lot more than the remix... but it's way better than Shellshock ;)

I fully agree with that, Spotnick. The more so since I first discovered New Order, and this song in particular, in clubs. I just couldn't imagine people dancing on the album version, while the Substance version sounded great on the dancefloor 16 years ago.

It was my first New Order single. Sorry, I still like it. To those who are old enough, remember the good old days when it seemed that every time you went into your favourite record shop, there was something new by New Order there. I guess thats how I got into New Order. Subculture 12" got me interested to seek out more of their work.

Originally posted by KnownPleasures > Originally posted by Mr Carbohydrate> > > > Originally posted by KnownPleasures> It's not so much a hatred of the song as a hatred of the remixed version that was put out as a single. The Low Life version is fine, and live it was a favourite for a few years. The remix is horrible though, the backing vocals just don't work with this song. The version put out as a single didn't do the song justice at all.

Hmm... And were those backing vocals also the reason why Republic is considered one of the weaker NO albums? Not at all. Republic is weak because

a) the production - several songs are overproduced and too synthetic b) not enough New Order, in particular Hooky, on them. The record is almost a Barney solo album and doesn't contain enough of the inputs the rest used to make on previous recordings.

a) agree b) and agree.

But unfortunately, the lyrics are some of Barney's better ones. I'd be interested in hearing what the songs would sound like re-recorded or w/o Stephen Hague behind the board. Any one heard the rare demo/instrumental tape of the Republic songs? If so, how does it compare to the final release?

I remember reading an interview w/ Barney and Hooky (I think) about the recording of Republic. Per Hooky, Hague had Barney isolated from the rest of the band during the writing process. Supposedly Barney wanted more input from the others, but assumed that they weren't interested b/c Hague had them convinced to leave the Barnster alone. Too bad really.