help needed from NOOL heavyweights

Great Detective work REG!Why has this one never surfaced before IF it was on a traders list years ago!Hoax back then or did he/she just keep it for themselves.In your collecting days what was the main reason why NO recording was done at certain shows.Was it strict security or was it that the BRIT's were keener to record every concert.I am intrigued as to why certain tape recordings have never seen the light of day.Also REG...which year did you collect the most recordings and have you any that no one else has? Cheers ROCKET MICK

Akron Agora, 7 August 1985

Where's this ?

I think it is the show at Akron Agora, 7 August 1985, which reportedly surfaced on one trader's list in late 85 but was never circulated. It is definitely not Cambridge, Hong Kong or anywhere in Japan.

http://www.worldinmotion.net/neworder/gigography/1985.htm has:

Agora, Akron, USA (5 Aug 85)

I'll see if I can do some more scouring and get a more definitive reference.

(longtime lurker, but first post)

Originally posted by the happy one > I think it is the show at Akron Agora, 7 August 1985, which reportedly surfaced on one trader's list in late 85 but was never circulated. It is definitely not Cambridge, Hong Kong or anywhere in Japan.

http://www.worldinmotion.net/neworder/gigography/1985.htm has:

Agora, Akron, USA (5 Aug 85)

I'll see if I can do some more scouring and get a more definitive reference.

(longtime lurker, but first post)

Welcome David Sultan

Welcome David Sultan

Haha, no. Actually, this is just the@new-order.net, whom you've seen post to Ceremony a few times. If I was Mr. Sultan, I'd just buy the server. :)

Well, looks like I solved a long-standing mystery (at least for me)...what the venue name for the 17 AUG 85 gig in Utah was.

http://www.internationalwebservice.com/reviews/neworder/New%20Order.htm

"Utah State Fairgrounds"

Originally posted by the happy one Well, looks like I solved a long-standing mystery (at least for me)...what the venue name for the 17 AUG 85 gig in Utah was.http://www.internationalwebservice.com/reviews/neworder/New%20Order.htm"Utah State Fairgrounds"

Do you have a recording of this ?

Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle Have now managed to listen to this Aus/NZ 85 show (cheers Peter) and can confirm the following......1) It's an undiscovered treasure, a bona-fide gig from 19852) It's not from Australia or New Zealand, or Japan, Hong Kong or even Taiwan. It's a US 1985 date, early in the tour at that.3) As It Is When It Was is called "Bullet in my head" and is a lot nearer completion than the Apil/May 85 versions. Lyrics are the same as the Chicago 6/8/85 version.4) Worst ever version of Chosen Time, possibly the worst performance of a song by the band ever ?5) The crowd reactiona are wildest for older songs, particulaly Hurt, always a US favourite.I think it is the show at Akron Agora, 7 August 1985, which reportedly surfaced on one trader's list in late 85 but was never circulated. It is definitely not Cambridge, Hong Kong or anywhere in Japan.

Super work Tim! What's the key point or fact leading to your conclusion that it's a US gig? Is it that the lyrics are the same as Chicago?

Do you have a recording of this ?

I don't think anybody does, well, aside from Hooky. The absence of a setlist would tend to confirm that.

My avatar's broke, for some reason...

Originally posted by Marko > Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle> Have now managed to listen to this Aus/NZ 85 show (cheers Peter) and can confirm the following......> > 1) It's an undiscovered treasure, a bona-fide gig from 1985> 2) It's not from Australia or New Zealand, or Japan, Hong Kong or even Taiwan. It's a US 1985 date, early in the tour at that.> 3) As It Is When It Was is called "Bullet in my head" and is a lot nearer completion than the Apil/May 85 versions. Lyrics are the same as the Chicago 6/8/85 version.> 4) Worst ever version of Chosen Time, possibly the worst performance of a song by the band ever ?> 5) The crowd reactiona are wildest for older songs, particulaly Hurt, always a US favourite.> > I think it is the show at Akron Agora, 7 August 1985, which reportedly surfaced on one trader's list in late 85 but was never circulated. It is definitely not Cambridge, Hong Kong or anywhere in Japan.

Super work Tim! What's the key point or fact leading to your conclusion that it's a US gig? Is it that the lyrics are the same as Chicago?

More a case of the stage of development of As It Is. The lyrics on this recording have a particular line that was used at Chicago as well, but had disappeared the next time they played it, and hadn't appeared before. As It Is was always a song where the words stayed pretty much the same but the music evolved, unlike most NO songs. 100% definite its not Aus, the bass sound on the whole gig is totally different to the Aus/NZ/Japan tour (those with recordings will know what I mean). Got date wrong sorry, it was 5 Aug not 7 Aug.

Don't know if anyone has noticed, but David Sultan's site gives the Cambridge date as 18 July 85, between the Hacienda and WOMAD. Strange, as there would be no students there in July ! He must have got that from somewhere though.

Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle Don't know if anyone has noticed, but David Sultan's site gives the Cambridge date as 18 July 85, between the Hacienda and WOMAD. Strange, as there would be no students there in July ! He must have got that from somewhere though.

Looks like it was actually in *JUNE* 85, at least according to http://home.clara.net/colpur/CTW.html (scroll halfway down or search for 'New Order') There's some interesting pics there, as well as a hand-drawn schedule of events, apparently NO played between 11:00PM - midnight. What a strange one-off, this "Pink, Punk, Pimms event at New Hall College, Cambridge"...it looks like a high school prom to me! Pinning it down to 18 JUN 85 works for me, but I don't have a smoking gun for this one.

New Order Cambridge 18th July 1985

Wasn't a graduation ball that night ?

Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart New Order Cambridge 18th July 1985

Wasn't a graduation ball that night ?

Yeah, I guess Cambridge has a tradition of these. I wonder how in the world they got New Order to come there. Maybe the Tony Wilson connection?

This was definitely in June, since balls in other years seem to be the second/third week of that month.

Originally posted by the happy one > Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart New Order Cambridge 18th July 1985Wasn't a graduation ball that night ?

Yeah, I guess Cambridge has a tradition of these. I wonder how in the world they got New Order to come there. Maybe the Tony Wilson connection?

This was definitely in June, since balls in other years seem to be the second/third week of that month.

Hi The

Check your inbox please mate.

Hi The

Check your inbox please mate.

Got it, but it nearly got trashed in the spam folder :) Will reply to it shortly.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart New Order Cambridge 18th July 1985Wasn't a graduation ball that night

Congrats, I'm well impressed someone tracked this down!!

It's possible that this date is correct - New Order played Reading Uni on 30th June 87, which was my last allowed date on campus (long story) but when I graduated in 89 I left on 13th July so it's believable that Cambridge had a similar date in 1985.

Well done for tracking this down!

Read above Al....June not July !

Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle Have now managed to listen to this Aus/NZ 85 show (cheers Peter) and can confirm the following......1) It's an undiscovered treasure, a bona-fide gig from 19852) It's not from Australia or New Zealand, or Japan, Hong Kong or even Taiwan. It's a US 1985 date, early in the tour at that.3) As It Is When It Was is called "Bullet in my head" and is a lot nearer completion than the Apil/May 85 versions. Lyrics are the same as the Chicago 6/8/85 version.4) Worst ever version of Chosen Time, possibly the worst performance of a song by the band ever ?5) The crowd reactiona are wildest for older songs, particulaly Hurt, always a US favourite.I think it is the show at Akron Agora, 7 August 1985, which reportedly surfaced on one trader's list in late 85 but was never circulated. It is definitely not Cambridge, Hong Kong or anywhere in Japan.

I've not heard this show yet, but do you think it might not be the Atlanta show from that tour? I say that for this reason: 1)There was a Brit whose name escapes me who not only used to run a record shop there at the time called Atmosphere Records which sold imports and bootleg lps, but he also was a bigtime NO trader who I think taped the '86 and '89 Atlanta shows and I'm sure would've taped the '85 one as well. Maybe one of you guys traded with him back in the day or for that matter flat out is him. So given the fact that all the other Atlanta shows were taped, it seems to me a reasonable bet that that one was too.

Could be, I'll cross-reference it with New Orleans the next night for song repetition, seeing as at that stage they were trying to do a different basic 6 or 7 every night. Has Chosen Time, and awful version that shows it clearly hasn't been rehearsed, and if I remember rightly the New Orleans version is very tight.

I'll dig out the entire tour over the weekend and listen to them all for lyric changes etc, Barney often tended to make something up on stage, like it and then use it again the next night, even on already-recorded songs.

I'll add this gig to the batch that will be with you shortly.

Incidentally all you music fans, have a look at this poster from the New Orleans show. Deliberate mistake ?

http://www.neworderonline.com/Concert.aspx?ConcertID=185

Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle Could be, I'll cross-reference it with New Orleans the next night for song repetition, seeing as at that stage they were trying to do a different basic 6 or 7 every night. Has Chosen Time, and awful version that shows it clearly hasn't been rehearsed, and if I remember rightly the New Orleans version is very tight. I'll dig out the entire tour over the weekend and listen to them all for lyric changes etc, Barney often tended to make something up on stage, like it and then use it again the next night, even on already-recorded songs. I'll add this gig to the batch that will be with you shortly.Incidentally all you music fans, have a look at this poster from the New Orleans show. Deliberate mistake ?http://www.neworderonline.com/Concert.aspx?ConcertID=185

Thought about the Chosen Time deal too. Easily could've pulled it out one night and screwed it to hell and gone back the next night and rehearsed it at the soundcheck or something. Of course it's not a clincher either way.

Also, I'm supposedly getting that show from another source so don't sweat copying it for me. I don't want to impose anymore than I have.

Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle Could be, I'll cross-reference it with New Orleans the next night for song repetition, seeing as at that stage they were trying to do a different basic 6 or 7 every night.

I have a writeup for the New Orleans gig already:

http://www.new-order.net/no/gigs/nogigs85.html#NO-850812

My favorite line from this one is when Barney says:

"Thank you very much. As Divine said, 'I've had more people in bed than there is in this room tonight'....but not quite as much feedback."

I even have an MP3 of "Chosen Time" (see the above URL). Significant because this is the last time New Order ever play it.

Well seeing as they played all the venues round her...PRESTON,BLACKBURN and TATTON COMMUNITY CENTRE i cannot really think there is anywhere else they could have played.As for the ASTORIA in LONDON i have been here several times and find it a brilliant venue.Easy to get served at the bars but you have to watch as you leave the place sometimes if the GAY DISCO is on after 11 pm! Sorry ...wrong thread!

Originally posted by The Happy One > Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle> Could be, I'll cross-reference it with New Orleans the next night for song repetition, seeing as at that stage they were trying to do a different basic 6 or 7 every night.I have a writeup for the New Orleans gig already:http://www.new-order.net/no/gigs/nogigs85.html#NO-850812My favorite line from this one is when Barney says:"Thank you very much. As Divine said, 'I've had more people in bed than there is in this room tonight'....but not quite as much feedback."I even have an MP3 of "Chosen Time" (see the above URL).Significant because this is the last time New Order everplay it.

Unless this unknown gig comes after New Orleans, and the shoddy version of Chosen Time was the straw that broke the camel's back ?

Sam, Temptation is on the CD of this mystery gig, it was missed off the tracklisting when Pete originally put it up. Was played before Perfect Kiss. Also note I said 1985 not 1986.

Tim

Whilst I have 340 New Order gigs, i am relying on you to suss this one, apparently you are the guru!!!!!!!

Mike

I sent David an e-mail talking about mistakes in our lists.

Check with him if I am right this time

Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle Sam, Temptation is on the CD of this mystery gig, it was missed off the tracklisting when Pete originally put it up. Was played before Perfect Kiss. Also note I said 1985 not 1986.

Okay, noted, I've made the correction on my side, but who mentioned anything about 1986?

Heh, how bizarre, the following post just came into faclist@yahoogroups:

From: "Stephen Hanula" To: Subject: [faclist] ACR

I live in the US, the mid west to be exact. New Order has only beenthrough my neck of the woods a hand full of times. The one time I saw them was in Akron Ohio in the early to mid 80's, I don't exactly remember it was a long time ago. ACR opened for them and blew New Order off the stage that night. I still like New Order better but that night ACR was really good and New Order looked like they had to have a gun to their heads to even take the stage.

I've followed up with the particular individual to see if he can remember what songs were played. Hopefully, he will remember enough to determine whether the mystery gig was indeed Akron or not.