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Originally posted by The Happy One Heh, how bizarre, the following post just came intofaclist@yahoogroups:> From: "Stephen Hanula" > To: > Subject: [faclist] ACR> ACR opened for them and blew New Order > off the stage that night.
As much as I like ACR I really can't imagine them ever 'blowing' New Order off the stage!
Originally posted by The Happy One > Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle> Sam, Temptation is on the CD of this mystery gig, it was missed off the tracklisting when Pete originally put it up. Was played before Perfect Kiss. Also note I said 1985 not 1986.
Okay, noted, I've made the correction on my side, but who mentioned anything about 1986?
You did in the reference to the gig on your site, attributing it to me !
Interestingly, Reg gives the date as 07 AUG 86, but http://www.worldinmotion.net/neworder/gigography/1985.htm has this as 05 AUG 85, so I've gone with the latter for now.
You did in the reference to the gig on your site, attributing it to me !
Interestingly, Reg gives the date as 07 AUG 86, but http://www.worldinmotion.net/neworder/gigography/1985.htm has this as 05 AUG 85, so I've gone with the latter for now.
ARRRGH ...Please shoot me, here's a target 
I went ahead and deleted the attribution, since you affirmed the 05 AUG 85 date later on.
:) 
Keep up the good work - got literally hundreds of snippets of updates for you, guess we should take them off-list though. My e-mail's on the site link in my signature.....
This just in. Looks like our mystery tape can't be from Akron, as the tracklist this person gives doesn't match up with the tape, not even close:
Some notes:
#5 is likely 'As It Is When It Was' #7 could be anything, given New Order's wildly varying setlists from night to night, but since the poster indicates it was a Brotherhood track, I'd guess 'Weirdo'.
The negative reviews given to this performace that New Order are entirely consistent with (a) no encore (b) multiple songs played that the punters weren't going to be familiar with, and (c) Blue Monday as the initial track.
From: "Stephen Hanula" To: Subject: Re: [faclist] ACR
I can't remember the set list but a friend of mine actually wrote it down and also the correct date. Here's the CORRECT ORDER. The correct day was 8-5-85 (Monday, August 5, 1985 as I couldn't do my RADIO NINE show ). At the Akron Agora. A Certain Ratio opened.
End of set. No encore.
So the best guess at this point is 11 AUG 85, Atlanta. It also jibes in well with the shambolic performance of Chosen Time and its subsequent removal from the set.
What would have been the venue name? In 1983, they played Club 688, in 1986, Fox Theatre.
Good stuff. So Track #5 is As It Is then, and track #7 is either State of the Nation or Weirdo. Wouldn't have been let's Go as they'd not do two instrumentals in the one set.
No idea about an Atlanta venue, Fox Theatre seems likeliest I would imagine. We'll have to keep digging !
I've got a friend who was supposed to go to that show, but didn't. I'll see if I can't track him down. Sometimes he's a bit elusive. Also, does the tape give any indication of the size of the place? The Fox is around the size of the Brixton Academy, and would have more of a cavernous sound than a club. If it has that sound, it's most likely the Fox as that was really the only venue of that size going in Atlanta at the time. There were quite a few clubs that it could have been if it were that type of show (688 or the Cotton Club being the most likely).
Most likely the Fox, given that: a) Low-life was an album that gained them alot of popularity in the States on college radio b/c of Love Vigilantes b) I was at the New Orleans show at MacAlister's and have also been to several of the other venues listed and they are comparable to the Fox in size.
Most likely the Fox, given that: a) Low-life was an album that gained them alot of popularity in the States on college radio b/c of Love Vigilantes b) I was at the New Orleans show at MacAlister's and have also been to several of the other venues listed and they are comparable to the Fox in size.
I found an anecdote at http://music.realbuy.ws/B00006RGMS.html that supports the claim that the Fox Theatre was the location of the New Order '85 Atlanta gig:
"I remember camping out overnight in the lobby of the Fox Theatre in Atlanta in order to buy tickets to see New Order on the Low-Life tour, something I've never done before or since for any other act (I got 2nd row seats!)."
This isn't extremely strong evidence, as he could have just misidentifed the 12 DEC 86 date, but it is a point in favor.
Originally posted by Solitude I have just got a CD from Stash entitled OZ/NZ 85?I need a venue and date, here is the track listing:SunriseSooner Than You ThinkSubcultureAge Of ConsentAs It Is When It WasHurt586Chosen TimePerfect KissConfusionChecked Water Rats gigography and Spotnick's gig guide but no luck.:(
Are you talking about this yet ? 
Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart > Originally posted by Solitude> I have just got a CD from Stash entitled OZ/NZ 85?> > I need a venue and date, here is the track listing:> > Sunrise> Sooner Than You Think> Subculture> Age Of Consent> As It Is When It Was> Hurt> 586> Chosen Time> Perfect Kiss> Confusion> > Checked Water Rats gigography and Spotnick's gig guide but no luck.:(
Are you talking about this yet ?
What planet you on Julio ? That's exactly what we are talking about !
Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart Earth.But you talk like nerds
it's nerds like us that keep this shit alive.
Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart JeffThis is why I admire you
and here, I thought it was because I'm a chef!!!
Originally posted by Mike Garrity Errrrrrr duhEaxactly what date do you all belive the date to beMike
22nd November 2003.
Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle We think it is Atlanta Fox Theatre 11 Aug 85, but still trying to confirm this.
Whoah, thanks Tim. Not Hong Kong as I guessed!
Still love the attempt at Chosen Time!!!
After a careful listen of this performance, which has to rank as one of the worst of New Order's career (that in and of itself makes it worth the price of admission), I'm inclined to believe that this was definitely performed somewhere in Australiasia, rather than in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm hesitant to claim that this is the Hong Kong gig, however, but it could be a heretofore unknown late April/early May Japanese date.
Here's why.
The audience is QUIET. Very typical of their Asian gigs (cf. PFD).
Listen to the intro of Sunrise. A couple of people are yelling in what appears to be Japanese. Definitely *not* English.
As It Is When It Was (or rather, Age Of Consent, as Barney confuses the setlist order, haha) is introduced as a "very new song". This wouldn't have been so new halfway during the US Lowlife tour. By the way, "Bullet In My Ear" (rather than "Head") seems to be what it's called. Should be easy to do an A/B against the PFD version of AIIWIW to see a possible resemblance.
Japan is a big country. I have a bit of a hard time believing New Order played just two Tokyo dates. In 1987, after Tokyo, they played Osaka and Nagoya. Maybe they did that here as well.
Maybe we can crosscheck if we can find out who opened for or was play with New Order on the Tokyo Japan 85 gigs.
As an aside, didn't New Order play in HAWAII at the end of May 85? Remember reading that somewhere.
Originally posted by The Happy One After a careful listen of this performance, which has to rank as one of the worst of New Order's career (that in and of itself makes it worth the price of admission), I'm inclined to believe that this was definitely performed somewhere in Australiasia, rather than in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm hesitant to claim that thisis the Hong Kong gig, however, but it could be a heretofore unknown late April/early May Japanese date.Here's why.1. The audience is QUIET. Very typical of their Asian gigs (cf. PFD). It's a mixer, of course they are quiet ! They perk up during older songs, which would suggest the gig pre-dates Low Life, I will agree.2. Listen to the intro of Sunrise. A couple of people are yelling in what appears to be Japanese. Definitely*not* English. not very distinguishable, will have another listen but couldn't pick anything of substance up3. As It Is When It Was (or rather, Age Of Consent, as Barney confuses the setlist order, haha) is introduced as a "very new song". This wouldn't have been so new halfway during the US Lowlife tour. By the way, "Bullet In My Ear" (rather than "Head") seems to be what it's called. Should be easy to do an A/B against the PFD version of AIIWIW to see a possible resemblance. He was still calling it a new song, or very new song, in December 85 ! There is a different guitar part towards the end in the early versions, that is not present on this take, hence the initial placing it in early August 854. Japan is a big country. I have a bit of a hard time believing New Order played just two Tokyo dates. In 1987, after Tokyo, they played Osaka and Nagoya. Maybe they did that here as well. they only went there to write some songs, apparently ! We know they did Osaka on 4/5/85, don't you have this recording ?Maybe we can crosscheck if we can find out who opened for or was play with New Order on the Tokyo Japan 85 gigs.As an aside, didn't New Order play in HAWAII at the end of May 85? Remember reading that somewhere.Bit of a long way for a one-off, more likely to have been in August 85
This has been my favourite thread recently, I just admire and envy the details which some of you guys and gals pick up on, and use to place the gig. However, we have no consensus, which is what makes the thread even better! I have absolutely nothing concrete or sensible (or not sensible) to add, but I'll play it again soon and will let you know...
BTW, anyone else think it's amazing that the pictures of the Cambridge Uni gig surfaced after almost 19 years? Just shows that you never can tell...
Originally posted by Marko BTW, anyone else think it's amazing that the pictures of the Cambridge Uni gig surfaced after almost 19 years? Just shows that you never can tell...
We found them after 19 years......judging by the browser info coming from the source code of the page they are on, they have been online for several years.
Low-Life was released May 85, if I recall correctly, but whether the gig was played in April/May or August of that year, the fans would have naturally reacted more to the older songs. And in this gig, nearly half the set is the newer stuff.
I had to listen to it a few times, but I very much doubt it's words you'd hear in the Deep South.
My A/B is still pending, but yeah, that you mention it, your point that AIIWIW sounded fairly well-formed is a point in favor for it being later, unless I can find other gigs where AIIWIW were similar.
Well, at least my guess about there being more than two Japan dates was right. NOPE! Do you have the setlist for that one?
As an aside, didn't New Order play in HAWAII at the end of May 85? Remember reading that somewhere. Bit of a long way for a one-off, more likely to have been in August 85
The source I was reading definitely said end of May/early June. Yeh, the Cambridge one-off was around then, why not another? I'll see if I can dig up the reference, my first pass thru my mail archives didn't turn it up.
--Sam
Originally posted by The Happy One
Low-Life was released May 85, if I recall correctly, but whether the gig was played in April/May or August of that year, the fans would have naturally reacted more to the older songs. And in this gig, nearly half the set is the newer stuff.
I had to listen to it a few times, but I very much doubt it's words you'd hear in the Deep South.
My A/B is still pending, but yeah, that you mention it, your point that AIIWIW sounded fairly well-formed is a point in favor for it being later, unless I can find other gigs where AIIWIW were similar.
Well, at least my guess about there being more than two Japan dates was right. NOPE! Do you have the setlist for that one? Yep. Very similar to this unidentified show actually.
perfect kiss confusion age of consent sub-culture ialp lonesome tonight sooner than you think hurt sunrise blue monday as it is when it was (very very early and raw version !!)
I'll copy the gig for you.
As an aside, didn't New Order play in HAWAII at the end of May 85? Remember reading that somewhere. Bit of a long way for a one-off, more likely to have been in August 85
The source I was reading definitely said end of May/early June. Yeh, the Cambridge one-off was around then, why not another? I'll see if I can dig up the reference, my first pass thru my mail archives didn't turn it up. There's a subtle difference between a 70 mile road trip to Cambridge University and a flight to Hawaii !! No way would that have been a one-off, they didn't make that sort of money !
Originally posted by Marko BTW, anyone else think it's amazing that the pictures of the Cambridge Uni gig surfaced after almost 19 years? Just shows that you never can tell...
That was an amazing find? Who was responsible?!
Hands up then, who's mailed the lad to ask if he might remember what New Order played that night?! 
Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Marko> BTW, anyone else think it's amazing that the pictures of the Cambridge Uni gig surfaced after almost 19 years? Just shows that you never can tell...
That was an amazing find? Who was responsible?!
Hands up then, who's mailed the lad to ask if he might remember what New Order played that night?!
Sam found it I think. I mailed the guy with the photos, no response. Don't think he was a fan.
