the "hip" indie kids

What is it that makes Joy Division so much more popular than New Order with the tragically hip indie rock kids (in the US, at least)?

Because NO's too profound for them, or else, NO's too mainstream.

I disagree. I don't think NO are too commercial at all. If that was the case, they would have played Crystal here on the radio. They didn't and still play Blue Monday and BLT 24 hours a bloody day!

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope What is it that makes Joy Division so much more popular than New Order with the tragically hip indie rock kids (in the US, at least)?

Interpol...

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope What is it that makes Joy Division so much more popular than New Order with the tragically hip indie rock kids (in the US, at least)?

angst.

Probably something also has to do with New Order's American lumping into the same musical category as DM and The Cure....as kitschy 80's new wave stuff that only belongs at 80's dance nights and whatnot.

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope What is it that makes Joy Division so much more popular than New Order with the tragically hip indie rock kids (in the US, at least)?

Maybe as Joy Division they were better?

Joy Division were bloody magnificent as were New Order and I can see the mystery and appeal that the tragic option Ian Curtis took that now leads to a new coolish interest from the young folk. I can remember seeing a kid down our local mall playing a video game in the summer with an Unknown Pleasures t-shirt on and I thought the concept of a 15 or 16-year wearing JD memorabilia was superb.

Thinking back it must have been a bloody crazy time for the remaining band members of JD, not only on a professional note but also on a personal one. But as it was quoted "What else where they going to do".

I find it frankly amazing that some NO fans, which I have spoken, to over the years do NOT even like Joy Division. There have been many occasions when NO have placed on record or more often played live with simple intensity, passion and pure brilliance which always reminded me of where these people came from and if anyone can say that they did not enjoy what JD did they simply have not felt anywhere near what I have when I have seen and heard New Order at their very best.

DM

Is that how they are perceived these days? Back then, I always thought they were both regarded the same, if only because one had to really search out to find the records and media stories on 'em, which would always lead to conversations in the record store. "All right, some one else has bought a copy of Procession".

I suppose the few chart hits they did have here cost NO a few of the really elitist snobs as fans, but I was never in that camp, nor did any of my friends regard them as sell-outs; they just happened to have made a few tunes that got played on the radio; we'd just eagerly await any news with regard to a new NO record.

Didn't matter to me that they were on a major label by that time as well; I'll always recall the words of Tony Wilson, in an interview with the New York Rocker, who put Tony and Geoff Travis, of Rough Trade, together for the plans on their respective US operations.

The whole idea that there is something righteous about the independent record label which prevails in England is sickening. There are several independent English labels I would trust less than I would anyone at CBS, for instance.

New York Rocker, July 1981.

There was one other great Wilson quote from that piece as well, with regards to using Closer as a way to open the US market for Factory.

The potential market for Joy Division album in America is three million because that's what great albums sell. Three million people buy the REO Speedwagon LP because they think it's a great album. With Closer, it's easier because it is a great album.

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bullshit being a dj at goth and indie clubs here i can tell you that NO are the more popular

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope Probably something also has to do with New Order's American lumping into the same musical category as DM and The Cure....as kitschy 80's new wave stuff that only belongs at 80's dance nights and whatnot.

i think this is it. new order can be found on any 80s compilation. and i think there's a perception that new order is their parent's music...if not their parents, then something that is not of their generation. indierock kids like stuff that they feel are precious, obscure or something along those lines. if they like any of the stuff from the 70s, it would most likely have this cult status thing attached to it...stuff like nick drake and big star. new order is too mainstream for them and is probably considered safe and belongs to the dreaded "parents music" or "not our generation...therefore uncool"

as for joy division, at least here in canada, you don't have joy division playing on retro nights or being on retro compilations. they have more of a cult status here and there's a chance that they might even be considered obscure...which is part of the hip factor. and the fact that the music is excellent, and there's the tragic romantic figure of ian curtis. to a twenty year old...who seems cooler on the outside? angsty young ian curtis? or flabby old barney? it's superficial anyways. i think there's always a bit of superficiality with those indierock hipster kids.