DE TIJD IS NU!! (THE TIME IS NOW!!)

Just luxuriating in my salubrious surroundings here at the coffeeshop (yet again....have I slept any lately??) and I thought I'd say how much I love this city.....I don't want to go home!!! Anyway, back to the here and now: New Order don't seem to be a massive seller here in Holland. I wonder why. As far as I know, Get Ready hasn't been moderately successful to any degree here - witnessed by its lack of prominence in all the city's record racks (you'll find it tucked away in the alphabetical section POP A-Z along with their other back catalogue LPs.

Does any one know how innovative the Amsterdam music scene is as a whole? Buster - do YOU know anything about this? All I seem to hear here are loads of hardcore techno/hard house/trance/eurocheese stuff that you get everywhere else on the continent - it hardly seems to suggest that anyone is moving on at all. It's been virtually unchanged for the past 10 years. I do know that there are some innovative Dutch rock/art-rock/pop/indie outfits that tend to survive on the fringes, but never anything too spectacular or prominent. I wonder why this is so? Any offers of explanations?

Sander Kleinenberg is the most familiar name I know of from Holland,he may not be your bag Martin but his Four Seasons E.P.'s are well respected in Progressive House circles.

Hmmmm My Lexicon..quality tune. DJ's Tiesto and Ferry Corsten are both Dutch, and as you say are big players behind the trance scene.

God knows about anyone else..probably too busy smoking 'emselves stupid

Don't know why but it's true that even Belgium have more prominent bands than Holland, with the notable exception of The Nits.

There's a good band called The Ex but they're more experimental.

Some Dutch bands that had coverage in the infamous british music press : Bettie Serveert, Darryl-Ann...

Yes indeed, this can be a great city.Especially if you are into smoking these green buds. As far as the music scene in Holland concerns: there is a lot happening in the underground scene, but it is on a small scale and (of course) you dont hear much of it. And of course there is the huge house scene but it seems that whatever fart you let out and put a couple of beats with it, people will give it a name and another housevariety is there. It is true i.m.o. that much more is happening in our beloved neighbourly Belgium.That has always been like that, i remember from the past the legendary T.C. Matic! Well enough talks, time for a big spliff, after all :this is Holland!

TC Matic ? That really bring us back waaaayyyy back in time...

I'm afraid I have to agree with Mario...the Dutch music scene has produced very little interesting music for as long as I can remember. Most people listen to s&!% like U2 and the Rolling Stones. Definitely Belgium has had much more interesting bands over the last 10 years: Deus, Soulwax, Zita Swoon, Das Pop just to name a few. Same goes for the Nordics: Motorpsycho, Sigur Ros, Fireside etc. The only succes we had in the last 10 years or so is the inclusion of George Bakers 'Little Green Bag'on the Reservoir Dogs soundtrack!!! Coen

2 Unlimited were dutch weren't they

As are the Vengaboys I believe

Oh Dear.

Originally posted by Seb Briggs 2 Unlimited were dutch weren't theyAs are the Vengaboys I believeOh Dear.

Stop it please!!! :-)

Thanks for all your contributions!! I've actually recalled a couple of great (in the sense that they are FAMOUS, yeah) "lost" Dutch acts - namely Golden Earring - remember "Radar Love" from the 70's? The guy behind that band, JAAP EGERMONT also masterminded the notorious "STARS ON 45" medley records of the early 80's a crazew which sept like wildfire through UK and Europe but thankfully for you Americans, didn't take off over there! The STARSOUND project - as it was called then, basically did soundalike covers of Abba, Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Rolling Stones and Instrumental themes all sequed together on a non-stop dance mix 12" or LP. This, incredibly, was the vogue for British music for one short 18 month period, when countless copy-cat faceless bands with session musicians jumped at the chance of making medley records stringing together horrid songs that we best forgot about (sadly, unlike myself, who rseems to remember them all!) Examples were Tight Fit, Startrax Club Disco (with their awful BeeGees medley ripoff) Gidea Park (the same guy behind the appalling Liquid Gold (Dance Yourself Dizzy!), Enigma, and god knows how many others. Jaap Egermont (with his cohort Micheal Duisier eventually moved on to more production, but a line up of Golden Earring still exist to this day - I should know, I've seen loads of their albums in secondhand Dutch record shops all across Amsterdam during my stay here!!

The second Ducth act I recall is the singer songwriter MATHILDE SANTING. Anyone else heard of her? She's been their most prolific artist with more than 30 LPs recorded to date. A kind of chanteuse/torch singer with an ear for good cover versions (Todd Rundgren, Aztec Camera...etc) Her finest LP was probably 1985's "Water Under The Bridge" followed by 1987's "Out Of This Dream" I have the first LP from back in 1986 and I must say, it's a peach of a record. Likewise, There are loads of Mathilde Santing CDs available here in Holland, seeing as she still remains one of their biggest selling artists.

One or two of you also mentioned THE EX - legendary experimental outfit whose 1939 EP remains one of their most successful releases when it came out in 1986 - complete with a 100 page booklet of facts and stories accompanying the tracks. This band still exist in one form or another today, though I know very little about their recent output since having first heard of them back then.....

Originally posted by Coen van der Voort I'm afraid I have to agree with Mario...the Dutch music scene has produced very little interesting music for as long as I can remember. Most people listen to s&!% like U2 and the Rolling Stones. Definitely Belgium has had much more interesting bands over the last 10 years: Deus, Soulwax, Zita Swoon, Das Pop just to name a few. Same goes for the Nordics: Motorpsycho, Sigur Ros, Fireside etc.The only succes we had in the last 10 years or so is the inclusion of George Bakers 'Little Green Bag'on the Reservoir Dogs soundtrack!!!Coen

Of course dEUS and Soulwax have been two of the most original and innovative Belgian bands to hit British shores over the past few years (I'm a big dEUS fan - I have all their singles and LPs - what a brilliant band!)

And also, you have Evil Superstars, fronted by the psychotic Mario Palowski: what abunch of oddballs they are - similarly unhinged and eclectic like dEUS, I also have a few of their records "Love Is OK" and "Boogie Children R Us"

Anyone else heard any stuff by this lot??

Like you say Buster, the best Belgian bands tend to overshadow much of what Amsterdam has to offer. It's a strange kind of situation don't you agree?

Oh, by the way, two little mistakes amongst all the spelling errors in the last 2 posts - Mario Pawlowski should read Mauro Pawlowski, and THE EX's 1986 release was entitled 1936, not 1939 - just in case someone posts in with a correction.

Also, my memory box has opened up wide all of a sudden...1975's Eurovision winner was TEACH-IN with "Ding A Dong" which I'm sure was a British top 5 hit. The following year, the biggest Dutch act were PUSSYCAT who scored a number 1 with "Mississippi" and followed it with a minor hit "Smile" before taking leave of the UK charts for good - mind you, I think THEY'RE still around to this day.

Anyone else with some further trivia?

My God , Martin, you are well informed when it comes to Dutch musical history highlights we all tend to forget overhere! Maybe you also heard of the famous Dolly Dots. Brilliant in their days (in another galaxy). Mathilde Santing is still going strong. It is not realy my cup-a-tea but she is truly a remarkable singer/songer. As for the Ex:impressive. In my JD/punk days i saw them a couple of odd times. Very energetic and truly operating in the punkstyle: doing everything themselves, from recording to printing,distribution and so on. Hard though to categorize these guys ,since they've produced loads of material. Buster, is it true that a CD came out this year from TCMatic? And how about Front 242! Did they come from Belgium or France?

Originally posted by Martin Gray Oh, by the way, two little mistakes amongst all the spelling errors in the last 2 posts - Mario Pawlowski should read Mauro Pawlowski, and THE EX's 1986 release was entitled 1936, not 1939 - just in case someone posts in with a correction.Also, my memory box has opened up wide all of a sudden...1975's Eurovision winner was TEACH-IN with "Ding A Dong" which I'm sure was a British top 5 hit. The following year, the biggest Dutch act were PUSSYCAT who scored a number 1 with "Mississippi" and followed it with a minor hit "Smile" before taking leave of the UK charts for good - mind you, I think THEY'RE still around to this day.Anyone else with some further trivia?

Other Dutch highlights are: 'Venus' by Shocking Blue 'Una Paloma Blanca' by George Baker Selection 'Viva Espana' Imca Marina 'The Smurf Song' by Vader Abraham

The 'Birdie Song' by The Elektronica's is actually Belgium...

Originally posted by Mario Herlaar time for a big spliff, after all :this is Holland!

You know Mario, I cannot in any way say no to that offer now....! It's great here in Amsterdam - Wish you could join us for one or ten!!! SPLIFFTASTIKKO!!!

(but please don't be of the preconception that I simply come to Holland to do this - on the contrary I like this place very much, because it works so well on many levels - unlike useless Britain. Dutch living seems so ordered and efficient. I am seriously thinking of wanting to come and live here - I know it will help enrich my life at any rate. Compliments don't come any higher - and NO, I am NOT grovelling either! :) )

Funny, i always find it very nice to be in England. It has much more to offer to me music wise plus i like your beer and Indian take away very much. I believe you when you say you are not only here for the drugs... there is only one kind of tourist that does that : drugtourists,hahaha. Wish i could join(t) you right now , but i am at work. In fact , there are so many interesting topics in the Forum now that i don't find the time to work at all.Wonder what my boss will say...fuck him anyway. While you are still here you should also try some of the Bockbeer. It is available in most pubs this time of year and truly a nice treat.

Originally posted by Mario Herlaar Funny, i always find it very nice to be in England. It has much more to offer to me music wise plus i like your beer and Indian take away very much.I believe you when you say you are not only here for the drugs... there is only one kind of tourist that does that : drugtourists,hahaha.Wish i could join(t) you right now , but i am at work. In fact , there are so many interesting topics in the Forum now that i don't find the time to work at all.Wonder what my boss will say...fuck him anyway.While you are still here you should also try some of the Bockbeer. It is available in most pubs this time of year and truly a nice treat.

Yes, that's the impression most people from Europe get of England, they tend to find it quite ....I dunno...quaint and traditional is some ways, but lurking underneath (perhaps most countries may be similar?) the surface is always the stark reality of life here in Britain. Forget unemployment, the REAL problems are: crime, lack of respect from the young or even adults, vandalism of almost everything, bad infrastructure: the appalling and extremely expensive - and disintegrating - public transport network, the appalling - and disintegrating - road network, the clueless government, the desecration of public and health services, poor education, poor social fabric, massive inequality between rich and poverty, poor living standards, expensive cost of life, the ignorance of most Britons in failing to get off their fat bloated asses to learn a foreign language (see, I'm trying to learn Dutch by teaching myself, of course it's going to be difficult, but I am dedicated enough in at least giving it a try...), I mean, I could go on.... Next year, Manchester hosts the 2002 Commonwealth Games. Believe me Mario, the shit will hit the fan when all our international visitors see what a shambles our trains and buses are: I can't wait for this ultimate episode of Shame to befall our country. It may be the final kick up the backside Britain needs to get its act together once and for all... Now, on the otherhand, If I left England to live in Holland, of course there will be things I will miss dreadfully: my family, my friends, the good old Fish and Chip shop, the music (despite all the critcism we level at it, the UK does still have a good overall musical culture - you're right in saying so Mario - ), some television is good also - but there is also a lot of crap to deal with too. I will also miss the hills and the country side (the Yorkshire/Derbyshire Dales, The Lake District, etc..) The goold old traditional English pub, the villages, the cliffs, the seashores, you know - there IS alot I will miss. That's why the dilemma I have about leaving is such a great one. But if it came down to social structure and the fabric of society, coupled with a good transport and commercial infrastructure, I would definitely now choose Netherlands over England anytime. :)

[Mind you, I think all those Brits who just come to Amsterdam for the drugs, sex and redlightdistrict are pretty sad and they should get an education because they are EXACTLY the kind of English stereotype I am so ashamed of being associated with: sometimes it gets so bad I'm afraid to speak in my usual British accent for fear of ridicule from the Dutch, and -this will sound unbelievable - I tend to disguise that by speaking English with a heavy Scandinavian/ Norwegian/Icelandic /Swedish accent !! ( )] So you see, I AM a very considerate and self-aware person when I want to be, which I hope is most of the time...!

I saw The Ex live twice and it was always amazing. One of the best live bands I saw indeed...

TC Matic put out a compilation CD early this year or the past year...

Nowadays, strangely, Arno, TC Matic frontman, is quite popular in France...

Oh, and by the way, Front 242 are defintely Belgian. They're preparing their comeback right now...

Originally posted by Martin Gray > Originally posted by Coen van der Voort> > > Like you say Buster, the best Belgian bands tend to overshadow much of what Amsterdam has to offer. It's a strange kind of situation don't you agree?

It's a strange thing, Martin, as Belgian music has never been so alive as now.

I think, here, we have a very strange way of making music. We don't really have a musical history, so we pick what we like everywhere and are not afraid of doing very crazy things.

Of course, it only gets interesting when you have great tunes as dEUS, Zita Swoon, Mauro and others have.

By the way, do you know Dead Man Ray. As for Zita Swoon, it's made of a former dEUS member. Really great.

To stay on the Belgian subject, I guess no one knew that The Wallace Collection were from Belgium. They had a hit called 'Daydream' that is sampled on Beta Band last album (the song is 'Square') and on another recent song, from what I heard, but I don't know which one.

And of course, there's this weird classic, covered by Sonic Youth, which is 'Ca plane pour moi' by Plastic Bertrand.

In fact, last time The Cure played Belgium, Robert Smith asked to meet Plastic Bertrand.

Wow Mr. K.!! four successive posts there, I'm having trouble catching up with these replies!

You mentioned Bettie Serveert earlier - yes I recall them, not that long ago was it - signed to 4AD records in England and brought out a few albums and singles. Trouble is, I've never heard them so to speak, only OF them. The EX are one of those bands that will accrue bigger and bigger cult status the longer they continue. Perhaps they're Holland's ultimate cult independent band. As in TRULY independent. They remind me a lot of British anarcho-veterans CRASS, who I'm sure have done work with - and associated themselves with - The Ex over the years. Like The EX, Crass have an ever shifting line up of musicians, artists, etc. and are still operating today. Apart frokm this knowledge of The Ex and the fact that they did bring out 1936 for the brilliant independent record label RON JOHNSON (based in Nottingham, UK), I have heard little or no music from their enormous back catalogue. You sound like a huge admirer, perhaps you could enlighten me for a change on the wonderful and wayward world of The Ex.

As for Belgium being the hotbed, I agree, it has been for a good few years now - it appears Belgian pop/rock is going thru its most fertile period ever! There have been some truly great inventive bands. Aside from the aforementioned dEUS and Soulwax amongst others. Mind you, I have previous been aware of a dEUS spin-off band from former bass player Stefan Kamil Carlens called MOONDOG JNR. but as of yet I have never heard any of their stuff- simply because I can't find any of it here in the UK. I'd love to hear what his stuff is like, seeing as he was so innovative whilst he was with dEUS. Have you heard any of their records? The last band you ,mentioned featuring a dEUS member I haven't heard of at all - they're totally new to me. Please tell me more!! (And whilst we're talking about dEUS - are they still together, I hope they haven't split up for good, even though they do pursue a lot of side projects...) :)

Originally posted by Buster Klumpy To stay on the Belgian subject, I guess no one knew that The Wallace Collection were from Belgium. They had a hit called 'Daydream' that is sampled on Beta Band last album (the song is 'Square') and on another recent song, from what I heard, but I don't know which one.And of course, there's this weird classic, covered by Sonic Youth, which is 'Ca plane pour moi' by Plastic Bertrand.In fact, last time The Cure played Belgium, Robert Smith asked to meet Plastic Bertrand.

ZITA SWOON: which former dEUS member does this band feature then? Surely not Tom Barman? Juille de Borgher? Rudi Trouve? Stefan? Craig Ward (well, he's Scottish anyway)? Klass Janzoons (he's German apparently)?. Do tell!

Oh, how can I forget "Ca Plane Pour Moi?" I'm showing my age when I say that I was already a teenager when that original version my Mr Bertrand hit the top ten in UK in 1978. Ha ha! Didn't know that Fat Bob Lipstick Man was a big PLastic fan.

Originally posted by Sébastien Boisvert I thought this thread was about Moloko !

.....what a wag!....

Originally posted by Martin Gray Surely not Tom Barman? Juille de Borgher? Rudi Trouve? Stefan? Craig Ward (well, he's Scottish anyway)?Klass Janzoons (he's German apparently

Shit! I forgot Stef's replacement Danny Mommens.!!

Well, going back to the Netherlands, Have you by any chance Buster, come across any stuff by top-selling Dutch chanteuse MATHILDE SANTING? I Have one album of hers, 1985's "Water Under The Bridge" (which I discovered thru a borrowed cassette tape back in 1986, then finally got hold of on CD only last summer when I was once again here in Holland)and it is lush. A very fine, soothing record if you want to unwind late of an evening after a stressful day. There are some lovely songs on it: Too Much, the title track, Boat Trip, Sweet Nothings, Turn Your Heart.... Mind, I've not investigated any of her stuff thereafter, due to lack of availability in UK more than anything. Here in Amsterdam, her entire (vast)back catalogue is always available.

urban dance squad - deeper shade of soul

dutch right?

Were R.T.S.(that's Rotterdam Termination Source)Dutch,anyone recall ther early nineties classic BOING BOING BOING???

Well, Martin, after Moondog Junior, Stef Camil Carlens founded Zita Swoon, with the same members.

In Dead Man Ray, there's Rudy Trouvé who formed an awful lot of bands : Kiss That Jaz, Lionel Horrowitz and others I can't remember of, some dating from before dEUS.

Dead Man Ray features the vocals of the most gifted musician in Belgium right now. He's called Daan Stuyven but is usually known as just Daan.

You can find the 2 Dead Man Ray albums on one french edition named Berchem Trap that you can order from amazon.fr. Really a safe buy.

He also has 2 solo albums, one that's called ProFools, the other, 'Verboden Te Zuchten/Le Pressentiment' soundtrack to a film by a friend of mine. This friend now producing the 1st film directed by Tom Barman.

You can find Verboten te zuchten on the belgian site Proxis.be (english version available and shipping to the UK). Also has the 2 Dead Man Ray albums, but separately and the Zita Swoon 2 albums.

But I might not recommend you Moondog Jr.'s album...

Hope this helps you.

Don't know The Ex too well but I guess, if you should buy one album, it would have to be 'And the weathermen shrug their shoulders', with the cellist Tom Cora, who died recently.

Originally posted by Buster Klumpy Don't know The Ex too well but I guess, if you should buy one album, it would have to be 'And the weathermen shrug their shoulders', with the cellist Tom Cora, who died recently.

Wow, thanks for all the tips and info, I must ask you why you don't recommend Moondog Jnr.'s stuff? Is there a particular reason why, say, perhaps they don't sound as good as dEUS perchance? I know Rudy Trouve is a very busy guy - he's also an artist/painter/writer(poet?) of course, but how can anyone keep so many different projects going and still stay sane? Beats me!! :)

Originally posted by Buster Klumpy Don't know The Ex too well but I guess, if you should buy one album, it would have to be 'And the weathermen shrug their shoulders', with the cellist Tom Cora, who died recently.

Actually, just began to check out THE EX's website - and a thoroughly rivetting site it is too, maybe here I may start investigating this band after all this time, the site is very extensive with lots of sections and very interesting links. This band seem to have a lot of history, I'm even surprised (but then, NOT so surprised, if you see what I mean) to hear of them doing recordings with old British anarchist-popsters Chumbawamba (!!) on and off over the years. They obviously all seem to possess the same kind of ideologies at any rate.

Originally posted by Martin Gray > Originally posted by Buster Klumpy> Don't know The Ex too well but I guess, if you should buy one album, it would have to be 'And the weathermen shrug their shoulders', with the cellist Tom Cora, who died recently.

Wow, thanks for all the tips and info, I must ask you why you don't recommend Moondog Jnr.'s stuff? Is there a particular reason why, say, perhaps they don't sound as good as dEUS perchance? I know Rudy Trouve is a very busy guy - he's also an artist/painter/writer(poet?) of course, but how can anyone keep so many different projects going and still stay sane? Beats me!! :)

Well, Moondog Jr isn't bad at all, but it's a bit of a difficult-listening... Zita Swoon is so much better.

And by the way, to me, Daan Stuyven is even more gifted than Tom Barman.

Originally posted by Shug Marty, have you been to TEASERS bar yet? it might be nearly 4 quid a pint, but the scenery is amazing

No, haven't checked it out yet - there's too many bars here - you haven't a hope in hell of doing them all unless you were THAT determined!! (bet you have tho!!). Mind you, I am inspired enough to think of something groovy: I'd like to design, plan, and manage my own coffeeshop here in Amsterdam should I ever hit the big time (ie, win the Lottery, which is kind of hard since I don't even friggin well play it!! ahem) and be able to live here proper and call it La Tortuga (Spanish for TORTOISE) with a huge neon sign of a tortoise smoking a huge spliff on the outside, and very slow and laid-back service and vibes inside to match! Hmmm. Sounds like a good 'un if I may say so....In fact I can just imagine myself and a few chums holding the opening bash: we'd lock ourselves in and get through the whole lot whilst a huge impatient queue builds up outside- then they'll all bugger off having become fed up of waiting to get in so long... Tortoise - geddit??

Originally posted by Buster Klumpy

You know... that sounds cool.... best check this Daan fellow out then sometime.

"Proust!"

You should really get that soundtrack. It's so beautiful it's unbelievable.

And, btw, dEUS will soon have a best of out.

Originally posted by Buster Klumpy You should really get that soundtrack. It's so beautiful it's unbelievable.And, btw, dEUS will soon have a best of out.

Really??? Whooopeee!!! That's great! Though, I hope it doesn't signify they're about to split up ...heaven forbid!! :)

To make the circle round: in the beginning of the eighties there was this Dutch new wavy band called The Minny Pops. A Martin Hannet produced 7" called Dolphin Spurt was released on Factory.

With dEUS, you really never know. But for now, Tom Barman works on his film...

Originally posted by Young Offender To make the circle round: in the beginning of the eighties there was this Dutch new wavy band called The Minny Pops. A Martin Hannet produced 7" called Dolphin Spurt was released on Factory.

Hey Yeah! That's right! I remember them too - just forgot that they actually came out on Factory! My, that was a bit unreal wasn't it??

Originally posted by Buster Klumpy With dEUS, you really never know.But for now, Tom Barman works on his film...

Does he mostly direct then? Because I believe he's also an actor - bit part or something? Correct me if I'm wrong.... In fact I have reason to suspect that ALL of dEUS, with their arty backgrounds - must have done films aplenty. I say this because their 1995 miniLP "My Sister = My Clock" is their weirdest offering and it has lots of dialogue linking the tracks - now Geoff, could these have been taken from any short films produced and directed by the various band members? I'm curious to know more....

Originally posted by Martin Gray > Originally posted by Young Offender> To make the circle round: in the beginning of the eighties there was this Dutch new wavy band called The Minny Pops. A Martin Hannet produced 7" called Dolphin Spurt was released on Factory.

Hey Yeah! That's right! I remember them too - just forgot that they actually came out on Factory! My, that was a bit unreal wasn't it??

Originally posted by Martin Gray > Originally posted by Young Offender> To make the circle round: in the beginning of the eighties there was this Dutch new wavy band called The Minny Pops. A Martin Hannet produced 7" called Dolphin Spurt was released on Factory.

Hey Yeah! That's right! I remember them too - just forgot that they actually came out on Factory! My, that was a bit unreal wasn't it?? Man, did they stink! But there weremore dutch underground successes in the UK. What about the infamous Clan of Xymox?

Originally posted by Young Offender > Originally posted by Martin Gray> > > > Originally posted by Young Offender> > To make the circle round: in the beginning of the eighties there was this Dutch new wavy band called The Minny Pops. A Martin Hannet produced 7" called Dolphin Spurt was released on Factory. >

Hey Yeah! That's right! I remember them too - just forgot that they actually came out on Factory! My, that was a bit unreal wasn't it?? Man, did they stink! But there weremore dutch underground successes in the UK. What about the infamous Clan of Xymox?

Aaaah yeah...you're right. I remember them, but by name only as I never heard any of their stuff. Were they like Dead Can Dance or summat, because they were a 4AD band weren't they (Xymox as well as DCD)? Or were they sorts Gothy pop like X-Mal Deutschland used to be? You appear to know better - tell me! (gosh - all these once-obscure -now not-so-obscure Dutch acts are all starting to creep out of the woodwork of our collective consciousness!)

Whilst were on the subject of Holland, apart from the obvious BENELUX Factory editions of New Order singles etc, are there or were there any official Dutch releases /versions of New Order singles/albums (I mean, apart from records having been "manufactured/made in Holland" that is) released, perhaps with different b-sides or mixes?

Because I swear I have never ever come across any. Any of our true Dutch correspondents know a thing or two and would like to share some info with us on this subject?? Mario? Jim?

Originally posted by Martin Gray > Originally posted by Young Offender> > > > Originally posted by Martin Gray> > > > > > > Originally posted by Young Offender> > > To make the circle round: in the beginning of the eighties there was this Dutch new wavy band called The Minny Pops. A Martin Hannet produced 7" called Dolphin Spurt was released on Factory. > > >

Hey Yeah! That's right! I remember them too - just forgot that they actually came out on Factory! My, that was a bit unreal wasn't it?? Man, did they stink! But there weremore dutch underground successes in the UK. What about the infamous Clan of Xymox?

Aaaah yeah...you're right. I remember them, but by name only as I never heard any of their stuff. Were they like Dead Can Dance or summat, because they were a 4AD band weren't they (Xymox as well as DCD)? Or were they sorts Gothy pop like X-Mal Deutschland used to be? You appear to know better - tell me! (gosh - all these once-obscure -now not-so-obscure Dutch acts are all starting to creep out of the woodwork of our collective consciousness!) They started out realy Gothy as a Bauhaus meets The Cure meets JD type of thing. Best single: A Day (a classic), best album: Medusa. After that they lost their way, hired Tony Visconti to pruduce their albums and became the Dutch Simple Minds.

Another Dutch favorite: The Chords. John Peel loved them!

Gosh, I didn't know The Chords were Dutch? I really didn't. Is this the same Chords as I remember - from 1979 - or is it a different one? If it is, I'm utterly amazed I never picked up on this fact (I thought they were British) befor, simply because I'm old enough to remember them having a few hits in Britain ("Something's Missing", if my memory serves me, is one of the singles I remember) and didn't Chris Parry produce them (he did likewise manage The Cure who shared the same label, Polydor, of course)

Anyway Young Offender, Jim, Mario, I must now regrettably announce that, yes indeed, "DE TIJN IS NU!" as my stay here in wonderful A'dam is fast coming to an end once again, until at least my next vist four months away. Sadly, I fly back to Shitty Britty tonight, touching down in Liverpool amidst all those stupid fireworks going off again (until at least the New Year by the looks of it) about 8' o' clock. So it's back to reality once more. It has been a pleasure experiencing once again the hospitality of your greatest city and you know, I can never stop myself from coming back time and time again. I love it here. I wish I could stay. But - if you look at the number of my post on the left hand side there, you can see very clearly that I have an inevitable date with the Devil looming up large next. And that Devil is called Manchester, England. :evil:

So, for now, "Tot Ziens!" and - see you all from back on the other side!!

Martin x x x (cryptic Amsterdam connection there! Ha ha!)

Originally posted by Martin Gray > Originally posted by Buster Klumpy> With dEUS, you really never know.> But for now, Tom Barman works on his film...

Does he mostly direct then? Because I believe he's also an actor - bit part or something? Correct me if I'm wrong.... In fact I have reason to suspect that ALL of dEUS, with their arty backgrounds - must have done films aplenty. I say this because their 1995 miniLP "My Sister = My Clock" is their weirdest offering and it has lots of dialogue linking the tracks - now Geoff, could these have been taken from any short films produced and directed by the various band members? I'm curious to know more....

Don't know much about those things. But I don't think so.

As for Tom Barman, I don't know if it's a one-off thing or if he will persever in this vay...

Well, so here I am, back on the other side! I certainly had a bit of trouble getting back - talk about pre-empting your fate! I had to stop another night in Amsterdam because - you're gonna love this - I missed my flight back , and the next available one was first thing Friday morning. So I was a bit put out of my stride to say the least, not to mention being extremely :sleepy:

Yeah yeah - I can hear you jeering now, "Too many spliffs , Marty, that's what it was...."

Well, it wasn't the most IDEAL of circumstances to find yourself in, but, hell, if it meant spending one less day of my life in soddin' miserable old England, then that can only be a good thing.

By the way, Young Offender, are there any decent music venues in Amsterdam other than the Melkweg? I tried hunting some down, and drew a few blanks regrettably.....

The post above was originally numbered :evil: 666 :evil: , even though, as you can see, it has already been superseded!!!

From now on, I will number all my posts - because I'm really anal and I think I've the right to do this!!

There is lots of music venues in Adam, Martin. Besides " de Melkweg " there is of course "Paradiso" where New Order once had a legendary gig.(on the deathday of Ian Curtis, wich led to the following Barney statement: you horrible bastards , you don't deserve us. we did this for a friend of ours called ..mumble mumble). The bootleg of that gig is also known as 441. The Paradiso is a bit like Brixton Ac. Its smaller but it got like the same kind of balcony thing.It is ,in fact , an old church. There are a few more but not realy interesting.

Originally posted by Mario Herlaar There is lots of music venues in Adam, Martin.Besides " de Melkweg " there is of course "Paradiso" whereNew Order once had a legendary gig.(on the deathday of Ian Curtis, wich led to the following Barney statement: you horrible bastards , you don't deserve us. we did this for a friend of ours called ..mumble mumble). The bootleg of that gig is also known as 441.The Paradiso is a bit like Brixton Ac. Its smaller but it got like the same kind of balcony thing.It is ,in fact , an old church.There are a few more but not realy interesting.

You know, Mario, this is going to sound awfully embarrassing, but, even during that - my SIXTH - visit to Amsterdam inside of 24 months, I still haven't been able to find out exactly WHERE the Paradiso venue is!! Shocking , I know, and especially more so considering how familiar I am by now of finding my way round A'dam generally. There's absolutely no excuse for that is there??? Thanks again for your contributions.

Generally speaking though, it seems New Order don't seem to do many gigs in Holland compared to other European Countries. I wonder why this is?

This is post # 675

Well, and what about Belgium, then, Martin ?

They played a lot until 1985. But nothing after that.

I think this is my 900th post...

Oke Martin, try the following plan next time you are in ze land of ze coffeeshops. First you go looking for Paradiso and then you can start steaming up. Just take a tram to the leidseplein nand you'll find your way around.

Originally posted by Mario Herlaar Oke Martin, try the following plan next time you are in ze land of ze coffeeshops. First you go looking for Paradiso and then you can start steaming up.Just take a tram to the leidseplein nand you'll find your way around.

It's not that big building behind the theatre/playhouse is it? The one with the turrets and ornate roofline? Frig me...fancy not realising that after all this time. Ooh, I feel so ashamed! So much for my knowledge of the city's cultural highspots...... :o

Originally posted by Buster Klumpy Well, and what about Belgium, then, Martin ?They played a lot until 1985. But nothing after that.I think this is my 900th post...

So they've been ignoring the land of the Vlaamse Frites then GK? I didn't reckon on that!

Oh, by the way Buster, I think I've [sort of. loosely] fathomed out what Sebastien was sneakily saying to you about me in your native tongue....I suggest you get theeself hence pronto back to the "KLOMP! KLOMP! KLOMP!" thread which is near the top of the list again and see if my attempt is any thing near.... allez!! allez!! VITE!!

That above was post # 678

This one was post # 679

Well, I just did, Martin...

I think the reason for so little NO apearances in Holland lies in the fact that the audience is most of the time a bunch of fucking posers with negative attitudes. That is at least my experience. Lots of people just go to the gig so they can say: see how cool i am , i went to a NOgig. They're not fans they are just empty headed wankers. As i recall from the 441 bootleg the audience was (partly) that way. Of course there are always enough die-hard fans like us around, but my experience with concerts overhere(not just NO ones) is that half the crowd comes to see the band and have a good time and the other half come to see and be seen. It is also a typical Dutch thing to be negative about anything or everything that is above average. Phew, time for a coffee break.(i am still at work ,thats why its coffee and nothing else ,yet.

Originally posted by Mario Herlaar I think the reason for so little NO apearances in Holland lies in the fact that the audience is most of the time a bunch of fucking posers with negative attitudes.That is at least my experience. Lots of people just go to the gig so they can say: see how cool i am , i went to a NOgig. They're not fans they are just empty headed wankers.As i recall from the 441 bootleg the audience was (partly) that way. Of course there are always enough die-hard fans like us around, but my experience with concerts overhere(not just NO ones) is that half the crowd comes to see the band and have a good time and the other half come to see and be seen.It is also a typical Dutch thing to be negative about anything or everything that is above average.Phew, time for a coffee break.(i am still at work ,thats why its coffee and nothing else ,yet.

Gosh, I'm really surprised about your view on Dutch audiences ("negative posers")- I never thought of them like that. I was always under the impression that they were a tolerant bunch, but obviously you know best and I am quite surprised to learn that in half the case, they are as ignorant as you say. Wow. That's another preconception of mine blown then. Next you'll be telling me they're as bad as the English.....(!!!)

(Is it true though , from what I read somewhere - it's probably one of those "Culture Shock" guides - that Dutch filmgoers tend to talk and crunch pocorn noisily throughout the film without even paying proper attention to it. Or is that just another scandalous myth invented just to show the Dutch nation in a negative light?)

Originally posted by Mario Herlaar I think the reason for so little NO apearances in Holland lies in the fact that the audience is most of the time a bunch of fucking posers with negative attitudes.That is at least my experience. Lots of people just go to the gig so they can say: see how cool i am , i went to a NOgig. They're not fans they are just empty headed wankers.As i recall from the 441 bootleg the audience was (partly) that way. Of course there are always enough die-hard fans like us around, but my experience with concerts overhere(not just NO ones) is that half the crowd comes to see the band and have a good time and the other half come to see and be seen.It is also a typical Dutch thing to be negative about anything or everything that is above average.Phew, time for a coffee break.(i am still at work ,thats why its coffee and nothing else ,yet.

Gosh, I'm really surprised about your view on Dutch audiences ("negative posers")- I never thought of them like that. I was always under the impression that they were a tolerant bunch, but obviously you know best and I am quite surprised to learn that in half the case, they are as ignorant as you say. Wow. That's another preconception of mine blown then. Next you'll be telling me they're as bad as the English.....(!!!)

(Is it true though , from what I read somewhere - it's probably one of those "Culture Shock" guides - that Dutch filmgoers tend to talk and crunch popcorn noisily throughout the film without even paying proper attention to it. Or is that just another scandalous myth invented just to show the Dutch nation in a negative light?)

Oh Bugger! That's those two messages duplicated again!!

This is post # 690

Shit! ..... I've just found some spliff wrappers in my rucksack.

With a little bit of "stuff" still wrapped in them!!!!

How the hell did they get there????

Fuck - and I got thru customs as well. HA HA!! THE BASTARDS DIDN'T NOTICE!!

And neither did I for that matter.

Anyone want to share this last bit with me, hmmm???

You lucky bastard! Well, enjoy it then!

It is good to hear that you like Holland that much! It's quite special, as are many other countries! They are all different and that makes the fun.

I do not totally share Mario's view on the Dutch audience.

And as regards the music industry, well indeed, not loads and loads of very interesting bands or singers (Belgium are doing a better job! Front 242, o my!). Although you all mentioned quite a few. Clan of Xymox, well aren't they special?

And for the rest, you have all noticed Dutch commercial attitude: all 'famous' Dutch DJ's making a lot of money; 2 unlimited, vengaboys, in this part of Dutch music industry its all about making money, you know..... (shame on you!?)

And, Martin, please remember: there's more in Holland than Amsterdam!!

CU

Originally posted by Dutch Jim says: NO! You lucky bastard! Well, enjoy it then!It is good to hear that you like Holland that much! It's quite special, as are many other countries! They are all different and that makes the fun.I do not totally share Mario's view on the Dutch audience.And as regards the music industry, well indeed, not loads and loads of very interesting bands or singers (Belgium are doing a better job! Front 242, o my!). Although you all mentioned quite a few. Clan of Xymox, well aren't they special?And for the rest, you have all noticed Dutch commercial attitude: all 'famous' Dutch DJ's making a lot of money; 2 unlimited, vengaboys, in this part of Dutch music industry its all about making money, you know..... (shame on you!?)And, Martin, please remember: there's more in Holland than Amsterdam!!CU

I know, Jim, I know: two other favourite places of mine are Leiden and Haarlem (what a lovely place that one is!). Thing is, I've never had the chance to hire a bicycle and just take off round the straight roads in the country side: mainly because I'm always distracted by things I keep coming across in the cities. My next visit will be around Koninginnedag, so I may try and leave the festive madness behind if only just for a day, and enjoy some space for a change. Mind you, I'm surprised it's taken you so long to happen across this thread - it was pretty well up and buzzing last week whilst I was chillin' in the 'Dam, Mario, Buster and Y. Off. were discussing a lot of stuff around the subject of Dutch bands that have made it big, and we all came to the conclusion that, apart from the odd pop act like The Smurfs or 2 Unlimited, there was actually very little - unless you count one of Holland's biggest and most enduring acts Golden Earring, of course. I landed back in shitty old England last Friday, just in time for my 666th post on this message board - quite appropriate really, seeing as I was once again ready to face the Devil (Manchester). Ha ha ha. And, like I said, my best times are always when I'm NOT here in this country. You say you may not have the music scene that compares to, Britain, but at least I think your infrastructure and overall quality of life - not to mention your social and economic situation - is far better than the horrible mess that we have here in Britain. Thanks for your comments anyway - and, like they say: "Laat iedereen in zijn waarde!" :)

Hello Martin!

Final remark for this thread, otherwise all others will be bored (). Your Dutch is quite impressive, as is your knowledge of our land.

Many years I dreamt of visiting Manchester, visiting the Hacienda and visiting New Order. Only one dream so far has become true (the last one). One other will remain a dream.... so what's left: wanting to visit Manchester!

As regards my late reaction to this thread.... I cannot read each day this forum (busy working etc.).

Talk to each other! (and see you on Koninginnedag?)

"Hoe gezellig!!! Graag gedaan mijn vriend........Proust!!!" ;) :) :)