DE TIJD IS NU!! (THE TIME IS NOW!!)

Just luxuriating in my salubrious surroundings here at the coffeeshop (yet again....have I slept any lately??) and I thought I'd say how much I love this city.....I don't want to go home!!! Anyway, back to the here and now: New Order don't seem to be a massive seller here in Holland. I wonder why. As far as I know, Get Ready hasn't been moderately successful to any degree here - witnessed by its lack of prominence in all the city's record racks (you'll find it tucked away in the alphabetical section POP A-Z along with their other back catalogue LPs.

Does any one know how innovative the Amsterdam music scene is as a whole? Buster - do YOU know anything about this? All I seem to hear here are loads of hardcore techno/hard house/trance/eurocheese stuff that you get everywhere else on the continent - it hardly seems to suggest that anyone is moving on at all. It's been virtually unchanged for the past 10 years. I do know that there are some innovative Dutch rock/art-rock/pop/indie outfits that tend to survive on the fringes, but never anything too spectacular or prominent. I wonder why this is so? Any offers of explanations?

Sander Kleinenberg is the most familiar name I know of from Holland,he may not be your bag Martin but his Four Seasons E.P.'s are well respected in Progressive House circles.

Hmmmm My Lexicon..quality tune. DJ's Tiesto and Ferry Corsten are both Dutch, and as you say are big players behind the trance scene.

God knows about anyone else..probably too busy smoking 'emselves stupid

Don't know why but it's true that even Belgium have more prominent bands than Holland, with the notable exception of The Nits.

There's a good band called The Ex but they're more experimental.

Some Dutch bands that had coverage in the infamous british music press : Bettie Serveert, Darryl-Ann...

Yes indeed, this can be a great city.Especially if you are into smoking these green buds. As far as the music scene in Holland concerns: there is a lot happening in the underground scene, but it is on a small scale and (of course) you dont hear much of it. And of course there is the huge house scene but it seems that whatever fart you let out and put a couple of beats with it, people will give it a name and another housevariety is there. It is true i.m.o. that much more is happening in our beloved neighbourly Belgium.That has always been like that, i remember from the past the legendary T.C. Matic! Well enough talks, time for a big spliff, after all :this is Holland!

TC Matic ? That really bring us back waaaayyyy back in time...

I'm afraid I have to agree with Mario...the Dutch music scene has produced very little interesting music for as long as I can remember. Most people listen to s&!% like U2 and the Rolling Stones. Definitely Belgium has had much more interesting bands over the last 10 years: Deus, Soulwax, Zita Swoon, Das Pop just to name a few. Same goes for the Nordics: Motorpsycho, Sigur Ros, Fireside etc. The only succes we had in the last 10 years or so is the inclusion of George Bakers 'Little Green Bag'on the Reservoir Dogs soundtrack!!! Coen

2 Unlimited were dutch weren't they

As are the Vengaboys I believe

Oh Dear.

Originally posted by Seb Briggs 2 Unlimited were dutch weren't theyAs are the Vengaboys I believeOh Dear.

Stop it please!!! :-)

Thanks for all your contributions!! I've actually recalled a couple of great (in the sense that they are FAMOUS, yeah) "lost" Dutch acts - namely Golden Earring - remember "Radar Love" from the 70's? The guy behind that band, JAAP EGERMONT also masterminded the notorious "STARS ON 45" medley records of the early 80's a crazew which sept like wildfire through UK and Europe but thankfully for you Americans, didn't take off over there! The STARSOUND project - as it was called then, basically did soundalike covers of Abba, Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Rolling Stones and Instrumental themes all sequed together on a non-stop dance mix 12" or LP. This, incredibly, was the vogue for British music for one short 18 month period, when countless copy-cat faceless bands with session musicians jumped at the chance of making medley records stringing together horrid songs that we best forgot about (sadly, unlike myself, who rseems to remember them all!) Examples were Tight Fit, Startrax Club Disco (with their awful BeeGees medley ripoff) Gidea Park (the same guy behind the appalling Liquid Gold (Dance Yourself Dizzy!), Enigma, and god knows how many others. Jaap Egermont (with his cohort Micheal Duisier eventually moved on to more production, but a line up of Golden Earring still exist to this day - I should know, I've seen loads of their albums in secondhand Dutch record shops all across Amsterdam during my stay here!!

The second Ducth act I recall is the singer songwriter MATHILDE SANTING. Anyone else heard of her? She's been their most prolific artist with more than 30 LPs recorded to date. A kind of chanteuse/torch singer with an ear for good cover versions (Todd Rundgren, Aztec Camera...etc) Her finest LP was probably 1985's "Water Under The Bridge" followed by 1987's "Out Of This Dream" I have the first LP from back in 1986 and I must say, it's a peach of a record. Likewise, There are loads of Mathilde Santing CDs available here in Holland, seeing as she still remains one of their biggest selling artists.

One or two of you also mentioned THE EX - legendary experimental outfit whose 1939 EP remains one of their most successful releases when it came out in 1986 - complete with a 100 page booklet of facts and stories accompanying the tracks. This band still exist in one form or another today, though I know very little about their recent output since having first heard of them back then.....

Originally posted by Coen van der Voort I'm afraid I have to agree with Mario...the Dutch music scene has produced very little interesting music for as long as I can remember. Most people listen to s&!% like U2 and the Rolling Stones. Definitely Belgium has had much more interesting bands over the last 10 years: Deus, Soulwax, Zita Swoon, Das Pop just to name a few. Same goes for the Nordics: Motorpsycho, Sigur Ros, Fireside etc.The only succes we had in the last 10 years or so is the inclusion of George Bakers 'Little Green Bag'on the Reservoir Dogs soundtrack!!!Coen

Of course dEUS and Soulwax have been two of the most original and innovative Belgian bands to hit British shores over the past few years (I'm a big dEUS fan - I have all their singles and LPs - what a brilliant band!)

And also, you have Evil Superstars, fronted by the psychotic Mario Palowski: what abunch of oddballs they are - similarly unhinged and eclectic like dEUS, I also have a few of their records "Love Is OK" and "Boogie Children R Us"

Anyone else heard any stuff by this lot??

Like you say Buster, the best Belgian bands tend to overshadow much of what Amsterdam has to offer. It's a strange kind of situation don't you agree?

Oh, by the way, two little mistakes amongst all the spelling errors in the last 2 posts - Mario Pawlowski should read Mauro Pawlowski, and THE EX's 1986 release was entitled 1936, not 1939 - just in case someone posts in with a correction.

Also, my memory box has opened up wide all of a sudden...1975's Eurovision winner was TEACH-IN with "Ding A Dong" which I'm sure was a British top 5 hit. The following year, the biggest Dutch act were PUSSYCAT who scored a number 1 with "Mississippi" and followed it with a minor hit "Smile" before taking leave of the UK charts for good - mind you, I think THEY'RE still around to this day.

Anyone else with some further trivia?

My God , Martin, you are well informed when it comes to Dutch musical history highlights we all tend to forget overhere! Maybe you also heard of the famous Dolly Dots. Brilliant in their days (in another galaxy). Mathilde Santing is still going strong. It is not realy my cup-a-tea but she is truly a remarkable singer/songer. As for the Ex:impressive. In my JD/punk days i saw them a couple of odd times. Very energetic and truly operating in the punkstyle: doing everything themselves, from recording to printing,distribution and so on. Hard though to categorize these guys ,since they've produced loads of material. Buster, is it true that a CD came out this year from TCMatic? And how about Front 242! Did they come from Belgium or France?

Originally posted by Martin Gray Oh, by the way, two little mistakes amongst all the spelling errors in the last 2 posts - Mario Pawlowski should read Mauro Pawlowski, and THE EX's 1986 release was entitled 1936, not 1939 - just in case someone posts in with a correction.Also, my memory box has opened up wide all of a sudden...1975's Eurovision winner was TEACH-IN with "Ding A Dong" which I'm sure was a British top 5 hit. The following year, the biggest Dutch act were PUSSYCAT who scored a number 1 with "Mississippi" and followed it with a minor hit "Smile" before taking leave of the UK charts for good - mind you, I think THEY'RE still around to this day.Anyone else with some further trivia?

Other Dutch highlights are: 'Venus' by Shocking Blue 'Una Paloma Blanca' by George Baker Selection 'Viva Espana' Imca Marina 'The Smurf Song' by Vader Abraham

The 'Birdie Song' by The Elektronica's is actually Belgium...

Originally posted by Mario Herlaar time for a big spliff, after all :this is Holland!

You know Mario, I cannot in any way say no to that offer now....! It's great here in Amsterdam - Wish you could join us for one or ten!!! SPLIFFTASTIKKO!!!

(but please don't be of the preconception that I simply come to Holland to do this - on the contrary I like this place very much, because it works so well on many levels - unlike useless Britain. Dutch living seems so ordered and efficient. I am seriously thinking of wanting to come and live here - I know it will help enrich my life at any rate. Compliments don't come any higher - and NO, I am NOT grovelling either! :) )

Funny, i always find it very nice to be in England. It has much more to offer to me music wise plus i like your beer and Indian take away very much. I believe you when you say you are not only here for the drugs... there is only one kind of tourist that does that : drugtourists,hahaha. Wish i could join(t) you right now , but i am at work. In fact , there are so many interesting topics in the Forum now that i don't find the time to work at all.Wonder what my boss will say...fuck him anyway. While you are still here you should also try some of the Bockbeer. It is available in most pubs this time of year and truly a nice treat.

Originally posted by Mario Herlaar Funny, i always find it very nice to be in England. It has much more to offer to me music wise plus i like your beer and Indian take away very much.I believe you when you say you are not only here for the drugs... there is only one kind of tourist that does that : drugtourists,hahaha.Wish i could join(t) you right now , but i am at work. In fact , there are so many interesting topics in the Forum now that i don't find the time to work at all.Wonder what my boss will say...fuck him anyway.While you are still here you should also try some of the Bockbeer. It is available in most pubs this time of year and truly a nice treat.

Yes, that's the impression most people from Europe get of England, they tend to find it quite ....I dunno...quaint and traditional is some ways, but lurking underneath (perhaps most countries may be similar?) the surface is always the stark reality of life here in Britain. Forget unemployment, the REAL problems are: crime, lack of respect from the young or even adults, vandalism of almost everything, bad infrastructure: the appalling and extremely expensive - and disintegrating - public transport network, the appalling - and disintegrating - road network, the clueless government, the desecration of public and health services, poor education, poor social fabric, massive inequality between rich and poverty, poor living standards, expensive cost of life, the ignorance of most Britons in failing to get off their fat bloated asses to learn a foreign language (see, I'm trying to learn Dutch by teaching myself, of course it's going to be difficult, but I am dedicated enough in at least giving it a try...), I mean, I could go on.... Next year, Manchester hosts the 2002 Commonwealth Games. Believe me Mario, the shit will hit the fan when all our international visitors see what a shambles our trains and buses are: I can't wait for this ultimate episode of Shame to befall our country. It may be the final kick up the backside Britain needs to get its act together once and for all... Now, on the otherhand, If I left England to live in Holland, of course there will be things I will miss dreadfully: my family, my friends, the good old Fish and Chip shop, the music (despite all the critcism we level at it, the UK does still have a good overall musical culture - you're right in saying so Mario - ), some television is good also - but there is also a lot of crap to deal with too. I will also miss the hills and the country side (the Yorkshire/Derbyshire Dales, The Lake District, etc..) The goold old traditional English pub, the villages, the cliffs, the seashores, you know - there IS alot I will miss. That's why the dilemma I have about leaving is such a great one. But if it came down to social structure and the fabric of society, coupled with a good transport and commercial infrastructure, I would definitely now choose Netherlands over England anytime. :)

[Mind you, I think all those Brits who just come to Amsterdam for the drugs, sex and redlightdistrict are pretty sad and they should get an education because they are EXACTLY the kind of English stereotype I am so ashamed of being associated with: sometimes it gets so bad I'm afraid to speak in my usual British accent for fear of ridicule from the Dutch, and -this will sound unbelievable - I tend to disguise that by speaking English with a heavy Scandinavian/ Norwegian/Icelandic /Swedish accent !! ( )] So you see, I AM a very considerate and self-aware person when I want to be, which I hope is most of the time...!

I saw The Ex live twice and it was always amazing. One of the best live bands I saw indeed...

TC Matic put out a compilation CD early this year or the past year...

Nowadays, strangely, Arno, TC Matic frontman, is quite popular in France...

Oh, and by the way, Front 242 are defintely Belgian. They're preparing their comeback right now...

Originally posted by Martin Gray > Originally posted by Coen van der Voort> > > Like you say Buster, the best Belgian bands tend to overshadow much of what Amsterdam has to offer. It's a strange kind of situation don't you agree?

It's a strange thing, Martin, as Belgian music has never been so alive as now.

I think, here, we have a very strange way of making music. We don't really have a musical history, so we pick what we like everywhere and are not afraid of doing very crazy things.

Of course, it only gets interesting when you have great tunes as dEUS, Zita Swoon, Mauro and others have.

By the way, do you know Dead Man Ray. As for Zita Swoon, it's made of a former dEUS member. Really great.

To stay on the Belgian subject, I guess no one knew that The Wallace Collection were from Belgium. They had a hit called 'Daydream' that is sampled on Beta Band last album (the song is 'Square') and on another recent song, from what I heard, but I don't know which one.

And of course, there's this weird classic, covered by Sonic Youth, which is 'Ca plane pour moi' by Plastic Bertrand.

In fact, last time The Cure played Belgium, Robert Smith asked to meet Plastic Bertrand.

Wow Mr. K.!! four successive posts there, I'm having trouble catching up with these replies!

You mentioned Bettie Serveert earlier - yes I recall them, not that long ago was it - signed to 4AD records in England and brought out a few albums and singles. Trouble is, I've never heard them so to speak, only OF them. The EX are one of those bands that will accrue bigger and bigger cult status the longer they continue. Perhaps they're Holland's ultimate cult independent band. As in TRULY independent. They remind me a lot of British anarcho-veterans CRASS, who I'm sure have done work with - and associated themselves with - The Ex over the years. Like The EX, Crass have an ever shifting line up of musicians, artists, etc. and are still operating today. Apart frokm this knowledge of The Ex and the fact that they did bring out 1936 for the brilliant independent record label RON JOHNSON (based in Nottingham, UK), I have heard little or no music from their enormous back catalogue. You sound like a huge admirer, perhaps you could enlighten me for a change on the wonderful and wayward world of The Ex.

As for Belgium being the hotbed, I agree, it has been for a good few years now - it appears Belgian pop/rock is going thru its most fertile period ever! There have been some truly great inventive bands. Aside from the aforementioned dEUS and Soulwax amongst others. Mind you, I have previous been aware of a dEUS spin-off band from former bass player Stefan Kamil Carlens called MOONDOG JNR. but as of yet I have never heard any of their stuff- simply because I can't find any of it here in the UK. I'd love to hear what his stuff is like, seeing as he was so innovative whilst he was with dEUS. Have you heard any of their records? The last band you ,mentioned featuring a dEUS member I haven't heard of at all - they're totally new to me. Please tell me more!! (And whilst we're talking about dEUS - are they still together, I hope they haven't split up for good, even though they do pursue a lot of side projects...) :)

Originally posted by Buster Klumpy To stay on the Belgian subject, I guess no one knew that The Wallace Collection were from Belgium. They had a hit called 'Daydream' that is sampled on Beta Band last album (the song is 'Square') and on another recent song, from what I heard, but I don't know which one.And of course, there's this weird classic, covered by Sonic Youth, which is 'Ca plane pour moi' by Plastic Bertrand.In fact, last time The Cure played Belgium, Robert Smith asked to meet Plastic Bertrand.

ZITA SWOON: which former dEUS member does this band feature then? Surely not Tom Barman? Juille de Borgher? Rudi Trouve? Stefan? Craig Ward (well, he's Scottish anyway)? Klass Janzoons (he's German apparently)?. Do tell!

Oh, how can I forget "Ca Plane Pour Moi?" I'm showing my age when I say that I was already a teenager when that original version my Mr Bertrand hit the top ten in UK in 1978. Ha ha! Didn't know that Fat Bob Lipstick Man was a big PLastic fan.

Originally posted by Sébastien Boisvert I thought this thread was about Moloko !

.....what a wag!....

Originally posted by Martin Gray Surely not Tom Barman? Juille de Borgher? Rudi Trouve? Stefan? Craig Ward (well, he's Scottish anyway)?Klass Janzoons (he's German apparently

Shit! I forgot Stef's replacement Danny Mommens.!!

Well, going back to the Netherlands, Have you by any chance Buster, come across any stuff by top-selling Dutch chanteuse MATHILDE SANTING? I Have one album of hers, 1985's "Water Under The Bridge" (which I discovered thru a borrowed cassette tape back in 1986, then finally got hold of on CD only last summer when I was once again here in Holland)and it is lush. A very fine, soothing record if you want to unwind late of an evening after a stressful day. There are some lovely songs on it: Too Much, the title track, Boat Trip, Sweet Nothings, Turn Your Heart.... Mind, I've not investigated any of her stuff thereafter, due to lack of availability in UK more than anything. Here in Amsterdam, her entire (vast)back catalogue is always available.

urban dance squad - deeper shade of soul

dutch right?