...it just seems too coincidental to me that the tapes match up so well w/ the live disc in Retro.
I think only insofar as the group of tapes (in CD dub form) was used to compile the group of sources used to make the selections from Retro.
So, I'm inclined to think that this was the best older material available.
Maybe some of it. What's interesting is that at least half of Tim's list are a relatively short period of time (from 12/85 - 3/86).
There may be more in Hooky's basement, but these may be the choice gigs/recordings.
The Atlanta '85 one was a part of the set, but was a lousy performance, at least in parts. I don't think that Cuyahoga/Chicago was a great performance either. I can't speculate why it was these and not some other gigs, unless these were just first in the pile or if these were ALL in the pile. I'm sure everything '88 onwards was DAT masters (we know the 'Sister Ray' from Brazil was from its liner notes), everything before that would have had to be reel-to-reel and dubbed onto cassettes for review, I would think.
Interesting, though, that some of the shows represented on Retro weren't included in the cassette box (Dallas '93 forward). So the band probably had the '93 and newer material, but had to rely on others for the older gigs.
Don't think it's a matter of _having_ the material, but rather having a convenient source for all of it. It's interesting that Gillespie didn't just ask for the keys, but there may have been *too* much material to choose from, or that the help may have been needed to select what was appropriate.
Also interesting that these were on cassette. Surely the gigs that were given to Gillespie were transferred to CD-R to begin the process...which would make one think that these cassettes were the original source material for Retro.
I think this is certainly evidence that the cassettes themselves date from the early Nineties (given the latest on them is Technique material) and the identity of the person who was selling them. The CD-R copies date from much later, though I can't know if these copies were made for Retro review purposes or if ATR had made them prior to being called up.
I personally hope these weren't actually the masters, since why would the sources be disposed of in that matter? That's extremely careless behavior. Unless London assumed that the copies that was used to assemble Disc 4 of Retro *were* the masters. The thanks to ATR, et al. were for "valued assistance with origination of music contained in this product" does suggest that some of those tracks may have indeed come off of those tapes, and the talk of "Hooky's vault" is a load of wishful thinking by us fans.
Anybody still have the Ebay auction URL?
As far as Hooky's involvement...if he's not directly responsible, my guess is that he was apprised of their sale/release prior to and (thankfully) turned a blind eye to it. Its hard to imagine that a person who was (presumably) so close to the band and had these tapes would
sell/release them w/o (a member of) the band's knowledge and risk jeopardizing the relationship.
If some argue that Barney's hatred of bootlegs stems from seeing stuff on sale for Ebay, he would have positively hit the roof when he heard about these, ESPECIALLY considering some of them contained rehearsal material. Or maybe _this_ was the source for Barney's sentiment.
But I did remember hearing that these mixers were known to plenty of people in Manchester, so what you're saying may indeed have been the case.
To me, these gigs represent the Holy Grail of NO items. Can't get enough of them
I certainly agree. I assume there's been little discussion about the music on 81-83-84 due to (1) not wanting to spoil it for folks who haven't heard it yet and (2) due to the way in which it came to make it into circulation.
--Sam
