I was listening to 'Republic' on the way home from work today. It's funny to listen to those songs after 11 years, knowing pretty much all they're about now (spooky how some of the words are so obviously and clearly directed at Tony Wilson right around the time Factory were collapsing). It's also interesting to notice how much it's a typical New Order album in disguise, being that there's a lot of the four of them playing together as opposed to just programming everything, and Hooky must have played a lot of keyborads as well, since I remember an interview on Vox where he talked about how fed up he was with bass playing altogether around that time... Anyway, it's a great album, but it gets some getting into its mood to fully appreciate it, some knowing what was going on back then to understand what it is really about. Tell me about being ahead of their time! :D
The beauty of hindsight. (After 11 years, I really like 'Republic'.)
Archived102 replies · 1,375 views
Hmmmm...I dunno. After 11 years Repulic as a whole still gets on my tits...esp REGRET. I know, I know!! "Regret?" you say
...well, frankly I'm tired of it. I have gotten into World and Everyone Everywhere a bit more though.
And Ruined...it's not bad either. Maybe someday I'll dig it...
Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS Hmmmm...I dunno. After 11 years Repulic as a whole still gets on my tits...esp REGRET. I know, I know!! "Regret?" you say
Do you like Times change or Avanlanche yet? I sure as hell never will.
Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS Hmmmm...I dunno. After 11 years Repulic as a whole still gets on my tits...esp REGRET. I know, I know!! "Regret?" you say
Do you like Times change or Avanlanche yet? I sure as hell never will.
No, not really. For a time back ye olde ninties I kinda liked Avanlanche...but these days and with the traffic in San Diego (As you know) I prefer a bit more crunch in my bowl of New ORder
I've always liked it. It came along when I was going through a rough patch and the songs really resonated with me.
and I must admit to being a bit of a Spooky-maniac when it first broke...I know, how sad is that? But hey...I was in to that dancy shit back then and the Spooky single and it's remixes were cool shit. Now...just mostly shit.
WOW!! Aren't I a potty mouth?!! 
Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS > Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS Hmmmm...I dunno. After 11 years Repulic as a whole still gets on my tits...esp REGRET. I know, I know!! "Regret?" you say
Do you like Times change or Avanlanche yet? I sure as hell never will.
No, not really. For a time back ye olde ninties I kinda liked Avanlanche...but these days and with the traffic in San Diego (As you know) I prefer a bit more crunch in my bowl of New ORder
A little bit more crunch, you mean like Chemical 
? I don't deal with traffic, I take the shuttle to get to the university.
Nai...as in the Low-Life/Brotherhood era and thier older live stuff.
Shuttle aye!! I live in La Mesa area and work in Point Loma...so not an option for me.
Republic is a great album. Seriously. Lyrically it's one of Bernards best efforts. If only Hooky had bothered strapping on the Bass to give it a bit more Substance. Still ranks behind Low Life, Technique & Brotherhood in my favorites list but sometimes edges out Get Ready for the 4th spot.
Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid Republic is a great album. Seriously. Lyrically it's one of Bernards best efforts. If only Hooky had bothered strapping on the Bass to give it a bit more Substance. Still ranks behind Low Life, Technique & Brotherhood in my favorites list but sometimes edges out Get Ready for the 4th spot.
Edges out Get Ready?? Serious?! Ouch BLT...very ouch.
I always liked Republic, it's not one of their best, but it's a good album nevertheless.
Times Change is good, at least they tried to experiment something new... kind of song you listen to when you are depressed.
Chemical on the other hand is pure crap.... as Liar is, and I kind of liked it at first, now, there is not enough cheese in the world to proove how cheesy it is...
Special is a pure gem. Spooky has better remixes than album version though.
Regret is good, but again, having heard the song 1 month before the album release, I still feel it's not part of the album.
Originally posted by Spotnick I always liked Republic, it's not one of their best, but it's a good album nevertheless.Times Change is good, at least they tried to experiment something new... kind of song you listen to when you are depressed.Chemical on the other hand is pure crap.... as Liar is, and I kind of liked it at first, now, there is not enough cheese in the world to proove how cheesy it is...Special is a pure gem. Spooky has better remixes than album version though.Regret is good, but again, having heard the song 1 month before the album release, I still feel it's not part of the album.
Spotty...you have freakin nailed it with the whole CHEESE line!!
All Hail Spotnick!!:D
Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS > Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid> Republic is a great album. Seriously. Lyrically it's one of Bernards best efforts. If only Hooky had bothered strapping on the Bass to give it a bit more Substance. Still ranks behind Low Life, Technique & Brotherhood in my favorites list but sometimes edges out Get Ready for the 4th spot.
Edges out Get Ready?? Serious?! Ouch BLT...very ouch.
The word SOMETIMES is a compound word meaning exactly what the two words that form it literally mean SOME TIMES as in NOT ALWAYS.
Remember, Get Ready has SLOW JAM and ROCK THE SHACK...two of the worst songs they ever wrote. Lyrically, Get Ready is very disappointing. LIAR, on the other hand, while hated by most here is one of my favorites.
Today, Get Ready would be in the 4 slot (if some Newbie decides to start a poll!)
I haven't time to sympathize with all this NONSENSE!!!!!
Originally posted by Drunken Monkey look...I'm tired of you lot slagging rock the shack...it isn't THAT bad!!!:p
It's only the piss-poor lyrics that let it down. Tune-wise it is reminiscent of JD in places.
To put it all in perspective, try this.
Well over half the next New Order album after Technique ended up as "Electronic". Half the next Electronic album ended up as "Republic". That should give you a clue as to songwriting duties and prevailing attitudes towards the future of New Order at the time.
It's strange, I always end firing up itunes and listening to the songs that are being spoken of when I come to this site. I always liked 'Special', I thought it was a hidden gem. Really liked, and still do 'World', It reminds me of an 808 State song called 'Lift' I think. Although it's much better. On the whole Republic for me is ok, probably on a par with low-life (I don't agree with the prevailing view that Low-life is one of their best).
I wonder if the best one is the first one you heard. For me the first full album was PCL so for me it's the one by which all others are judged.
Also Slow jam is a great song - it just has awful lyrics - but hey it's not like anyone here will have THAT coming as a surprise - I dunno perhaps Barney was doing on purpose as a *&$%you to all the people that say his lyrics are crap... RTS sounds better live.
Yay! Wire are playing here in a couple of weeks - I can't wait...
It's only the piss-poor lyrics that let it down. Tune-wise it is reminiscent of JD in places.
I agree with you this - Probably is a total classic for people with English as a second language, like Australians 
I really can't understand all the hate around this place for Slow Jam. Classic New Order, right up there with some of the great older stuff! A classic, classic Hooky bassline (the way it fits in with the guitar...wow), great melody and chorus. The tension between the dragging/shuffling synth/drum pulse and the rest of the song really makes it for me. The lyrics? Look they're fine, they really are. They make perfect (non)sense to me - plus, who else but Barney can do this.....*thing* that he does with words.
Rock The Shack on the other hand.... Let's just say that the fool Gillespie must be kept at arm's length in the future. Likewise Corgan.
But to get back to the point - Get Ready is still a marvel and is really infinitely better than Republic.
Sorry, can't agree. Slow Jam is the absolute pits. Even if it were an instrumental it would still be anathema to these ears.
I am so glad they didn't record it in January 1979 for the first Peel Session, as I would never have bothered with them.
Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid Republic is a great album. Seriously. Lyrically it's one of Bernards best efforts. If only Hooky had bothered strapping on the Bass to give it a bit more Substance. Still ranks behind Low Life, Technique & Brotherhood in my favorites list but sometimes edges out Get Ready for the 4th spot.
You don't rate PCL even as high as Get Ready?
**Slow Jam is the absolute pits. Even if it were an instrumental it would still be anathema to these ears.**
So tell us WHY then!
It's got a shuffling sort of sound to it that I really don't like at all. Tune wise, it is boring and repetitive. Add the most banal set of dross Barney has ever come up with as an excuse for lyrics, and you have a recipe for sheer unmitigated disaster. Thank God they didn't play Every Little Counts immediately after it, or I would have walked out.
Originally posted by Low-Life It's got a shuffling sort of sound to it that I really don't like at all. Tune wise, it is boring and repetitive. Add the most banal set of dross Barney has ever come up with as an excuse for lyrics, and you have a recipe for sheer unmitigated disaster. Thank God they didn't play Every Little Counts immediately after it, or I would have walked out.
Walked out of, um, where?! 
Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Low-Life It's got a shuffling sort of sound to it that I really don't like at all. Tune wise, it is boring and repetitive. Add the most banal set of dross Barney has ever come up with as an excuse for lyrics, and you have a recipe for sheer unmitigated disaster. Thank God they didn't play Every Little Counts immediately after it, or I would have walked out.
Walked out of, um, where?!
Wherever (as in which live venue) they were playing it.....thankfully I was spared this catastrophe.
The only song on Republic that has grown on me in the last 11 years is EVERYONE EVERYWHERE. Which I now think is a beautiful melancholic song :)
I have held pretty much the same opinions on all the other tracks since the first few months of listening to it when it came out.
Great tracks on republic: Regret, Special Good tracks on republic: Spooky, Ruined in a day, Everyone Everywhere, Avalanche, World Crap tracks on republic: Young Offender, Liar, Chemical, Times Change.
Well, thats what i think anyway
OK - I guess beauty is in the eye of...etc
So.... Republic. I listened to this this morning. Hmmm - it really has to be the least essential NO album. Regret, Times Change and especially Avalanche are fantastic, but the rest are not great. It's the only album they've done where they don't demand that you enter *their* world....instead it just meekly sits there *fitting in* with the times. Hague's thin, all-surface, no grit production is a BIG problem here, as is the bloody Italo-house piano which is smeared everywhere. The only trax that try and prise apart the layers of politeness and breathe a little are the ones that actually work. Times Change is by no means a great song on its own merits, but in context it nearly IS. I have a little time for World and Ruined...the odd little detail keeps them out of the mire, but hell, I'm only giving them the time of day because they're New Order.
**OK - I guess beauty is in the eye of...etc** This in reply to Low Life's critique of Slow Jam.
Originally posted by DC **OK - I guess beauty is in the eye of...etc** This in reply to Low Life's critique of Slow Jam.
Absolutely. Unless your name is Tiresias !
Its a funny thing,Republic. From day one,i`ve always thought of it as like a long single. Side 1 is great
New Order,side 2 is like a little less quality kind of like
B.Sides 
Originally posted by a a ...and Hooky must have played a lot of keyborads as well, since I remember an interview on Vox where he talked about how fed up he was with bass playing altogether around that time...
I've never heard this before. I thought Stephen Hague was to blame (based on what I've read) for splitting the band up during the song writing process, which lead to the Hooky-less album.
After 11 years, I still never listen to this record. Perhaps Barney's best lyrics, but the music is generic and very un-New Order (except for Regret).
Perhaps part of my issue with Republic is that Regret's release in advance of the LP set my expectations for a classic sounding NO LP...and when none of the tunes on Republic sounded anything like Regret (or New Order for that matter), I was unpleasantly surprised.
Originally posted by Low-Life To put it all in perspective, try this.Well over half the next New Order album after Technique ended up as "Electronic". Half the next Electronic album ended up as "Republic". That should give you a clue as to songwriting duties and prevailing attitudes towards the future of New Order at the time.
Excellent point. Again, a product of Hague's involvement?
republic is the one NO album i almost never listen to (ok, movement rarely gets any play, either). i have to admit that when it first came out i listened to it quite a bit-- i think i was just excited that NO had released some new material. but now it just sounds so dull compared to the rest of their work. regret and world are probably the only exceptions.
Originally posted by AgentWood republic is the one NO album i almost never listen to (ok, movement rarely gets any play, either). i have to admit that when it first came out i listened to it quite a bit-- i think i was just excited that NO had released some new material. but now it just sounds so dull compared to the rest of their work. regret and world are probably the only exceptions.
(and SPECIAL of course!)
Totally agree, i listened to it non stop on its purchase in 93 i think i was just so happy to have some new material to soak up!!!
Originally posted by Major Tarantino Great tracks on republic: Regret, SpecialGood tracks on republic: Spooky, Ruined in a day, Everyone Everywhere, Avalanche, WorldCrap tracks on republic: Young Offender, Liar, Chemical, Times Change.Well, thats what i think anyway
I'd say that was pretty much spot-on, Stevie....thing is those crap tracks are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO crap it makes me cry just thinking about it......
It's a bit of an airy-fairy album all round, really. Regret's a storming opening, but then the whole thing goes limp-wristed thereafter. Ruined, Everyone Everywhere and Special are all nice enough numbers but that's all they are ... 'nice'. Bit twee for the 'lighters in the air' brigade.
World could've been a corker if Hooky actually appeared on it. A decent enough Electronic song..
I must be the only person who quite likes Chemical. It's the only track that attempts to grrrrowl, bar Regret.
It seems universally accepted that the distinct lack of Hooky on Republic has watered down it down to such an extent that it gathers dust in most peoples collection...
Thank fook he's all over GetReady! :D
Just goes to show that NewOrder cant be NewOrder without the 3 essential ingredients that make them what they are. Barney-Hooky-Steve
Yes Gillian was "nice" but she never led any songs did she??
Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid > Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS > Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid> Republic is a great album. Seriously. Lyrically it's one of Bernards best efforts. If only Hooky had bothered strapping on the Bass to give it a bit more Substance. Still ranks behind Low Life, Technique & Brotherhood in my favorites list but sometimes edges out Get Ready for the 4th spot.
Edges out Get Ready?? Serious?! Ouch BLT...very ouch.
The word SOMETIMES is a compound word meaning exactly what the two words that form it literally mean SOME TIMES as in NOT ALWAYS.
Remember, Get Ready has SLOW JAM and ROCK THE SHACK...two of the worst songs they ever wrote. Lyrically, Get Ready is very disappointing. LIAR, on the other hand, while hated by most here is one of my favorites.
Today, Get Ready would be in the 4 slot (if some Newbie decides to start a poll!)
I haven't time to sympathize with all this NONSENSE!!!!!
Ouch...
Have a drink on me!!
I understand SOME TIMES but I really can't suscribe to that THEORY...REPUBLIC is that bad!!
Run Wild and RTS...not that bad. Could they have been better? YES. But there is ALMOST no excuse for REPUBLIC....
"Me mum said it was the ABORTION that lived!!"
Sir Chunks OBE, could you please not mention ABORTION again? I myself was an abortion, and I've overcome odds and prospered. Your comment was very insensitive to those of us in the abortion survivors community. 
:D
Republic, in my opinion, is a fairly good pop album, although it does need more bass. Regret always seemed too bland, RIAD was too boring, and the remixes of Spooky were better than the album version, but World, EE, Young Offender, Special, and Liar aren't that bad - but do sound like average Electronic tracks, which makes sense for the time. Chemical is just too mediocre, although with a better chorus and an intro, it might have been better, and Avalanche is nothing memorable.
They used the wrong RIAD. People would have liked it if they'd put the Reunited in a Day mix on the album.
Originally posted by Al Jarvis I must be the only person who quite likes Chemical.
*tumbleweed*
--dust devil--
Originally posted by Tracey Spivey > Originally posted by a a> ...and Hooky must have played a lot of keyborads as well, since I remember an interview on Vox where he talked about how fed up he was with bass playing altogether around that time...
I've never heard this before. I thought Stephen Hague was to blame (based on what I've read) for splitting the band up during the song writing process, which lead to the Hooky-less album.
After 11 years, I still never listen to this record. Perhaps Barney's best lyrics, but the music is generic and very un-New Order (except for Regret).
Perhaps part of my issue with Republic is that Regret's release in advance of the LP set my expectations for a classic sounding NO LP...and when none of the tunes on Republic sounded anything like Regret (or New Order for that matter), I was unpleasantly surprised.
When Republic came out, there was Gillian somwhere (I don't remember where) explaining what a tiresome process it'd been to make the album, especially because it was her, Steve and Hooky laying the bases during the day, then Barney turning up in the evening and staying all night. Also how difficult it was to concentrate on anything when the shit was very severely hitting the fan down on Whitworth Street West. Either way, if you saw New Order playing live at the time, you then noticed Hooky playing bass on all those Republic tracks, only that he would play a regular bassline, as opposed to his traditional solo-like thing (and Steve played the drums, not keyboards).
Then when Monaco's first album came out (need I name it for you?), there was Hooky and Pottsy on Vox playing pool and taking the piss out of Scunthorpe. Hooky explained how happy he was to get back to playing bass the way he used to before Republic, and how at the time of recording Republic he just thought of it as 'repetitive' (sic).
As for Steve Hague's production, well, I don't really know what to say. 'True faith' has never been among my favourite NO tracks, and the reason why I was so disappointed with Republic when it came out was that I thought it just sounded too much like everything else around at the time, and I thought NO too special to come up with something so seemingly trivial. But then again, listening to it more carefully nowadays has made me realise what a personal and straightfoward album that is, and how difficult it really must have been for them to make it - as opposed to how absolutely relaxed they must have been making Get ready, which IS the only reason why they let Slow jam and Rock the shack be put out in the first place. (Guess what? These aren't two of my fave NO tracks ever either.)
One of the last Order albums I got my hands on, Republic still always teeters between mediocre shite and a masterpiece
I've never cared much for Regret, maybe my opinion will change when (hopefully not "if") I see em up close and personal.
World is great, but the single version ruins it by omitting the electronic call and response in the middle of the song. It also ends anti-climatically compaired to other of their classics. (The "big songs, small..." well you get the idea).
Ruined in a Day used to captivate me, but grew old after a few listens. I've never heard the Spooky mixes, but the album version is acceptable. Everyone Everywhere is fantastic, especially lyrically. Young Offender isn't bad at all, one of the few songs on the album with a good driving beat.
However, it declines with Liar and Chemical, ugh
Times Change is good, Speical is a masterpiece, and Avalance is beautiful and haunting.
Of course, not enough Hooky, but also Stephen doesn't get much of a chance to demonstrate his talent, there's way too many programmed beats (once again, Barney in his full Electronic mode here).
Bottom Line: The good outweighs the bad slightly, which should never be the case of any NO album.
Tune-wise it is reminiscent of JD in places.
I always thought that, too. Much more so than any of their more recent work.
On Rage in 2002,(music prorgamme, ABC TV in Australia where the band were guest programmers) Hookey whilst announcing a song by the Avalanches asked Steve: "Didn't you and Gillian once record a song called Avalanche?" and Steve said something like: It's on Republic.
I think this just symbolises the disjointed effort Republic was. According to this Avalanche is really a song by The Other Two.
Originally posted by Ronald Kirsch On Rage in 2002,(music prorgamme, ABC TV in Australia where the band were guest programmers) Hookey whilst announcing a song by the Avalanches asked Steve: "Didn't you and Gillian once record a song called Avalanche?" and Steve said something like: It's on Republic. I think this just symbolises the disjointed effort Republic was. According to this Avalanche is rally a song by the Other Two.
You may be absolutly right in fact...who's to say that those two DIDN'T do Avalanche themselves...certainly the only tune in recent memory that Gillian can actually be heard one, vocally that is.
Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope Sir Chunks OBE, could you please not mention ABORTION again? I myself was an abortion, and I've overcome odds and prospered. Your comment was very insensitive to those of us in the abortion survivors community.
:D
So sorry Holiness...you'll hafta forgive my non-PC nature. PC is against my religion.
I shall never mention the word ABORTION again. 
see...you did it again...you godless pinko communist!!!
uhm...sorry...I reckon I forgot to take my medication....AGAIN!!!
Hehehehehe!!!! Snicker...Tee Hee!! :D;)
So solly...it's that I've been trying to give some of Republic a chance through a new bought of open minded listening...well, something else got in there so me a bit baka at the moment!!
Originally posted by stEVErythings Gone Green Its a funny thing,Republic. From day one,i`ve always thought of it as like a long single. Side 1 is greatNew Order,side 2 is like a little less quality kind of likeB.Sides
Which would explain why there is only 1 b-side off Republic...
Less creation, remove 3 tracks from Get Ready and put the 3 B-Sides in.. and i'm not sure it'd be the same!
I never disliked "Republic". Depeche Mode has been able to maintain their status by changing their tune a bit but Republic still sounds like its New Order. Just like "Violator" and "Exciter" are unmistakely Depeche Mode. "Republic" isn't one of my favorites but even so, its a GREAT album so sit on the porch of your cottage on a stickey summer day with a few bottles of beer and listen to.
Originally posted by Spotnick > Originally posted by stEVErythings Gone Green> Its a funny thing,Republic. From day one,i`ve always thought of it as like a long single. Side 1 is great> New Order,side 2 is like a little less quality kind of like> B.Sides
Which would explain why there is only 1 b-side off Republic...
Less creation, remove 3 tracks from Get Ready and put the 3 B-Sides in.. and i'm not sure it'd be the same!
Didn't we once have a vote to make Republic a damned fine EP, instead of an album?!
I can't remember the final 4 choices - Regret (dur!), then was it Ruined, Everyone and Special perhaps?!
Well, Republic is still a lot superior to most of the stuff out today :D
So EP or not, it's a good album.. it's difficult for me to judge it fairly as it was my first "new" album as a fan... so yes I love it, just like I love side-projects, but maybe if PC&L would have been my first new album, I would be dissapointed (like Depeche Mode's Exciter for instance.. which won't be played for a while probably!)
But to be honest, Liar and Chemical doesn't do the playlist too often... I do like Times Change and Young Offender though... seems everyone have their favorites..
I play it all on Republic. I think "Rock the shack", "Fine Time", and "Every second counts" are the only NO tracks I give the big miss. I have no loyalty hehe, if I thought a NO album was garbage I wouldn't buy it. ( I have them all, so). Republic is great. Hands down.
However though, high antisipation I think is what eeked "Get Ready" into my collection. It's just good enough in my opinion and DOES NOT see my player as much as the more STATISTICALLY(fact) and ARTISTICALLY(opinion)successful "Exciter" a la DM. "Freelove" becomming one of my favorites of all time.
Originally posted by twist Am I the only freak that likes Liar????????
Don't worry...there's "freaks" who like Movement, We All Stand, Every Little Counts, Angel Dust, Fine Time, Slow Jam, and Rock the Shack...even though we won't admit to it most of the time :p
Originally posted by 1.21 gigawatts?! > Originally posted by twist> Am I the only freak that likes Liar????????
Don't worry...there's "freaks" who like Movement, We All Stand, Every Little Counts, Angel Dust, Fine Time, Slow Jam, and Rock the Shack...even though we won't admit to it most of the time :p
WARNING: I'M REPLYING TO A POST ALERT!
And I am one of those proud 'Freaks' who likes that entire list there 1.21...Especially We All Stand, that's a killer jam!!
I have to say it was the expectation and the dissapointment that had killed Republic for me. Imagine this: it's 1993, the war's calming down, I'd thought I'll never hear from New Order again and then the news breaks that they'll have a new single and a new album out ! My thoughts were "Great, war's over, New Order are back again, everything will be fine again". There is hope (no pun with the War Child compilation please). Then Regret comes out, it's likened do Ceremony by the people themselves, I love it , I can't wait to hear the album, it's out and most of it is useless. It could have been a PSB album with some gutars as well. The hope is gone. Now I know nothing's ever going to be fine. Of course, they don't bother to play live anywhere I could catch them either. I adnit there are some fine songs on the album as well, I like Special and Everyone, but I don't listen to the album at all. I assume they only released it because they had to release something. Not very fair to the listeners.
Well although SPOOKY was a bit lame compared to the remixes
i do ENJOY this album.Maybe it is because of my musical taste in liking the PET SHOP BOYS.I can understand NOOL's saying that there is too little BASS.But some brilliant tracks on here and i still play this quite a lot.It was over used as far as singles are concerened.But tracks like YOUNG OFFENDER,EVERYONE EVERYWHERE,LIAR,TIMES CHANgE and SPECIAL still mean a lot to me.Each to their own.The artwork is SUPERB aswell so no complaints here at the PLANET ROCKET.
Regards ROCKET MICK 
Indeed, each to their own :)
I find the irony somewhat amusing and TOTALLY "NewOrder'ish" that my favourite NewOrder song (SPECIAL) comes off arguably their weakest album. And arguably their strongest single (REGRET) does also!
.......... good point. Thing is obviously, as albums go it wasn't their best but I do like it y'know. I went into a record shop t'other day and spotting Republic on sale for £1.99, I asked shop manager why such a bargain basement price. He replied venemously "Because it's shit". I thought that was a bit cheeky . I don't listen to it that often but when I do I find me skipping a couple of tracks.
I've just never really thought about disliking it, i've just decided to not have an opinion on it. 
I've always liked Republic personally. I don't particularly like Liar all that much, but I have an aquired taste, I think Chemical is cool.. Someone mentioned Times Change too, it's so different that I have to like it.
Republic is almost as crap as Technique. It has the same number of genuinely good songs, but the bad songs on Republic are barely worse than the bad songs on Technique.
I doubt anyone will get my point (let alone agree with me), but when I said before I thought 'Republic' is a good album, I meant to see in the context of New Order's outcome alone. It's had to compare their output with anyone else's - though, ironically enough, if you're going to do it, I think 'Republic' is your album -, but if you only consider their history, then 'Republic' makes sense. I can understand why they made it this way - the sort of music they were listening to at the time, the mess they were having to put up with at the time, maybe even their need for a slightly more 'commercial' album, having just signed to London and maybe being up to their necks in debts, who knows? -, and seeing it through this particular light, I get to like it a bit more. It reveals a lot about them if you care to pay attention. And, quite frankly, 11 years later, when that sort of music it used to be likened to doesn't play as much anymore, it can stand out... I don't know. Or maybe this is all bollocks because I'm such a die-hard fan and I don't really want to admit NO have been able to come up with anything half-arsed. (But if you ask me, I'll tell you there isn't a single New Order track I don't like. Hell, just the other day I was tripping out of my head with 'An ideal for living'! :p )
A lot of people seem to be rating Republic based on now rather than what it sounded like in 93. I think when it came out it sounded EXACTLY like what NO should of sounded like 4 years after Technique. ...its better than anything else that came out around the same time. Remember this was released before britain went Oasis/Radiohead/Blur/Britpop crazy.:)
Originally posted by stEVErythings Gone Green I think when it (Republic) came out it sounded EXACTLY like what NO should of sounded like 4 years after Technique.
I have to disagree. Almost all of the band's releases prior to Republic had certain unique elements to them (Hooky's bass and great synth/acoustic combinations). Why should Republic have abandoned these? My opinion on this album has not changed since the day it was released.
I guess Shug will always have WIM and I will always have Republic.
Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope Republic is almost as crap as Technique. It has the same number of genuinely good songs, but the bad songs on Republic are barely worse than the bad songs on Technique.
How is Technique "crap"?
Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be > Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope> Republic is almost as crap as Technique. It has the same number of genuinely good songs, but the bad songs on Republic are barely worse than the bad songs on Technique.
How is Technique "crap"?
Indeed, Republic in the same sentence as Technique...
Originally posted by 1.21 gigawatts?! > Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be> > > > Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope> > Republic is almost as crap as Technique. It has the same number of genuinely good songs, but the bad songs on Republic are barely worse than the bad songs on Technique.>
How is Technique "crap"?
Indeed, Republic in the same sentence as Technique...
Someone has some serious issues here 1.21!!...
Originally posted by Andy Technique is to Abbey Road what Republic is to Let it Be.
'Technique' is my favourite NO album, together with 'PCL'. I can understand when people say 'Republic' is their natural progression after 'Technique' (which I don't really agree with), meaning that there's some sort of struggle to become slightly more commercial from 'Brotherhood' to 'Technique', which was fully achieved with 'Republic', and I also agree that the main problem with 'Republic' is the absence of acoustic tracks. But then again, this is exactly what I was referring to: I began liking 'Republic' more when I found out the acoustic tracks were there, only studio work made them sound so incredibly electronic - Hooky plays bass on "World", "Ruined in a day", etc, but you can't hear it because he's playing "proper" basslines.
But the Beatles comparison I didn't get. And can you actually say (whether you like them or not) that there's a Beatles album that is not good?
Originally posted by FAC442 > Originally posted by Andy> Technique is to Abbey Road what Republic is to Let it Be.
But the Beatles comparison I didn't get. And can you actually say (whether you like them or not) that there's a Beatles album that is not good?
There are decent songs on Let it Be, but the Beatles interpersonal relationships were at their worst. A producer (Phil Spector) put a bit too much of his own spin on the the recordings losing a bit of the group's identity. That's why they recently reissued what they feel is the "proper" version of Let it Be.
Many fans like Republic and lot's of people like Let it Be but neither show the bands at their best.
Oh, and PCL is to Revolver as Low-Life is to Sgt.Pepper!
Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS > Originally posted by 1.21 gigawatts?!> > > > Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be> > > > > > > Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope> > > Republic is almost as crap as Technique. It has the same number of genuinely good songs, but the bad songs on Republic are barely worse than the bad songs on Technique.> > >
How is Technique "crap"?
Indeed, Republic in the same sentence as Technique...
Someone has some serious issues here 1.21!!...
All I'm saying is that Technique is close to perfection, and Republic is just ok at best...hard to compare
Originally posted by Aleph > Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS > Originally posted by 1.21 gigawatts?!> > > > Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be> > > > > > > Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope> > > Republic is almost as crap as Technique. It has the same number of genuinely good songs, but the bad songs on Republic are barely worse than the bad songs on Technique.> > >
How is Technique "crap"?
Indeed, Republic in the same sentence as Technique...
Someone has some serious issues here 1.21!!...
All I'm saying is that Technique is close to perfection, and Republic is just ok at best...hard to compare
I'll go with that there 1.21...forgive me and my madness...I was still twitching and convulsing over the whole Republic debacle!!!
Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS > Originally posted by Aleph> > > > Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS> > Originally posted by 1.21 gigawatts?!> > > > Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be> > > > > > > Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope> > > Republic is almost as crap as Technique. It has the same number of genuinely good songs, but the bad songs on Republic are barely worse than the bad songs on Technique.> > >
How is Technique "crap"?
Indeed, Republic in the same sentence as Technique...
Someone has some serious issues here 1.21!!...
All I'm saying is that Technique is close to perfection, and Republic is just ok at best...hard to compare
I'll go with that there 1.21...forgive me and my madness...I was still twitching and convulsing over the whole Republic debacle!!!
Serenity now. Serenity now.
Originally posted by Andy > Originally posted by FAC442> > > > Originally posted by Andy> > Technique is to Abbey Road what Republic is to Let it Be.>
But the Beatles comparison I didn't get. And can you actually say (whether you like them or not) that there's a Beatles album that is not good?
There are decent songs on Let it Be, but the Beatles interpersonal relationships were at their worst. A producer (Phil Spector) put a bit too much of his own spin on the the recordings losing a bit of the group's identity. That's why they recently reissued what they feel is the "proper" version of Let it Be.
Many fans like Republic and lot's of people like Let it Be but neither show the bands at their best.
Oh, and PCL is to Revolver as Low-Life is to Sgt.Pepper!
Dunno... I've always like Let it be, even more so now that ...Naked! has come out, but I see your point, and I agree with you. So on the PLC/Revolver bit. But not Sgt Peppers! For me, that is the low point of the Beatles and no mistake! Low-life's too sublime for this.
Originally posted by FAC442 Too much of one certain Sir James Paul McCartney, if you ask me!
you are mistaken about that, 442....it's "Sir Prick"
Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be > Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope> Republic is almost as crap as Technique. It has the same number of genuinely good songs, but the bad songs on Republic are barely worse than the bad songs on Technique.
How is Technique "crap"? Have you listened to it? Round and Round, Run, Vanishing Point, and Dream Attack are the only good songs on it. The rest are either disreputable shit (i.e., Fine Time) or yawnable songs that don't stand out (i.e., the rest, whose names I can't even remember).
Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope > Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be> > > > Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope> > Republic is almost as crap as Technique. It has the same number of genuinely good songs, but the bad songs on Republic are barely worse than the bad songs on Technique.>
How is Technique "crap"? Have you listened to it? Round and Round, Run, Vanishing Point, and Dream Attack are the only good songs on it. The rest are either disreputable shit (i.e., Fine Time) or yawnable songs that don't stand out (i.e., the rest, whose names I can't even remember).
Four masterpieces does not make an album "crap" IMHO, even if the rest are pisstakes on The Cure :p
Originally posted by Aleph > Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope> > > > Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be> > > > > > > Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope> > > Republic is almost as crap as Technique. It has the same number of genuinely good songs, but the bad songs on Republic are barely worse than the bad songs on Technique.> > >
How is Technique "crap"? Have you listened to it? Round and Round, Run, Vanishing Point, and Dream Attack are the only good songs on it. The rest are either disreputable shit (i.e., Fine Time) or yawnable songs that don't stand out (i.e., the rest, whose names I can't even remember).
Four masterpieces does not make an album "crap" IMHO, even if the rest are pisstakes on The Cure :p Vanishing Point is the only one I'd consider a masterpiece, then Run is close, then Dream Attack, and finally Round and Round. Damn that Cult of Technique.
Originally posted by aneworderfan Mr. Disco! Guilty Partner! And yes, Fine Time is great too! Check your ears!
Sorry to disagree with you, but those are all crap. Low Life is a much more solid album.
Technique is a gem my son, and recorded when they were in invincible form. The energy and enthusiasm of the album shows just what a great time they were having when it was recorded.
Its a stone cold classic and is quite possibly the finest and most skillful work they will ever achieve.
And thats me saying that when its not even my favourite album!! You just got to hold your hands up and admit its a musical masterpiece.
Each to his own I suppose, but Technique is far from being the best album to me. Production wise it may be better than some, but the songs are intrinsically weak, with two or three exceptions.
Originally posted by Low-Life Each to his own I suppose, but Technique is far from being the best album to me. Production wise it may be better than some, but the songs are intrinsically weak, with two or three exceptions.
As i said Tim it aint my favourite album neither, but weak isnt a word i'd readily associate with it, but as you say each to their own. Although fast forward 4 years and its a different story ;)
There are decent songs on Let it Be, but the Beatles interpersonal relationships were at their worst. A producer (Phil Spector) put a bit too much of his own spin on the the recordings losing a bit of the group's identity.
Sounds EXACTLY like Republic to me...
Originally posted by stEVErythings Gone Green > There are decent songs on Let it Be, but the Beatles interpersonal relationships were at their worst. A producer (Phil Spector) put a bit too much of his own spin on the the recordings losing a bit of the group's identity.
Sounds EXACTLY like Republic to me...
Republic...Naked, anyone?
Republic naked would be wonderful - get Mr Hague off of there and bring Hooky into the front of the mix.
Having said that, since Republic was my first "proper" cd purchase, I do have fond memories of summer '93 and listening to this disc quite a bit.
And '93 was not exactly a banner year to get into the Order.......
To some of the above posters. There are no crap New Order songs. Only some masterpieces, good ones and not so good ones. :)
Originally posted by Ronald Kirsch To some of the above posters. There are no crap New Order songs. Only some masterpieces, good ones and not so good ones. :)
In this "best of all possible worlds" maybe, but in reality, listen to Republic. :barf:
Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope > Originally posted by Ronald Kirsch> To some of the above posters. There are no crap New Order songs. Only some masterpieces, good ones and not so good ones. :)
In this "best of all possible worlds" maybe, but in reality, listen to Republic. :barf:
They are good songs lyricly. Listen to the words. I do admit most of them could have been been improved if they had been recorded differently ie more of Mr Hook.
Originally posted by Ronald Kirsch > Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope> > > > Originally posted by Ronald Kirsch> > To some of the above posters. There are no crap New Order songs. Only some masterpieces, good ones and not so good ones. :)>
In this "best of all possible worlds" maybe, but in reality, listen to Republic. :barf:
They are good songs lyricly. Listen to the words. I do admit most of them could have been been improved if they had been recorded differently ie more of Mr Hook. Maybe lyrically good, but as we've heard again and again, the lyrics of their songs mean nothing and the music is where it's at. If it's not good to listen to, I generally won't have a chance to listen to the lyrics.
Originally posted by Ronald Kirsch To some of the above posters. There are no crap New Order songs. Only some masterpieces, good ones and not so good ones. :)
Wash yer lugs out matey.....
Originally posted by Ronald Kirsch I guess I'm just a one-eyed New Order fan. :D
I may be in the land of the blind, but I'm not deaf.
Good lord, in a thread devoted to a reevaluation of possibly New Order's only sh!t album (alongside Movement) someone has decided to crash the Technique party. My gawd, I suppose there are no sacred cows anymore :(.
Republic? The second I heard Regret's debut in California in early April eleven years ago I was hugely enthused, The New Order Mix made it even more interesting, unfortunately then the album dropped and all was lost. World sounded interesting musically, a nice, if derivative dance tune, everyone everywhere was a nice tune, and I believe rumored at one time to possibly be a title for the album. Special was Classic New Order, Faith was beautiful if hollow, and Times Change had some interest. But really besides Regret, and Special, there were no classics, and it held more all time cr@p songs than any New Order album previous (Liar, and Chemical can easily join We All Stand and nearly the whole of movement in the top 10 of New Order's top 10 worst tunes).
As for Technique, good lord, it's nearly classic from begining to end: Fine Time is dated, but still interesting, all the way and loveless are flawless, round and round sounds great in the remixes, and good on the album, guilty partner continually grows on you, Run is an all time classic, Mr. Disco is what World could have been if it were a classic, Vanishing Point is a classic and so is Dream Attack. Hell I'd put at least four of the nine songs in my New Order top 10 all time.
As for the Beatles, I think Beatles for Sale was their low point along w/Help. Both albums had classic Beatles tunes (Eight Days a Week, What you're Doing, No Reply, I'm a Loser, Help, Yesterday, You're going to lose that girl, and Ticket to ride to name a few, but both also had TONS of filler. Something that can't be said of Please Please Me, With the Beatles, A Hard Days Night, Rubber Soul, Sgt. Peppers, Revolver or Abbey Road. Oh and Magical Mystery tour was hit and miss too.
The Beatles had their share of duds, but they're also probably the only band in history that had at least two classic songs on each and every one of their albums, and by classic, I mean songs that would still be played and loved, on the radio fifty years later or more. Nobody tops the Beatles.
Oh I'm just babbling, anyway, there's no need for some post- 10 year anniversary reevaluation of Republic, it sucked then and it sucks now. There classic albums remain PCL, Low-Life, and Technique, w/Substance being their classic collection and American Foundation Building album (I'm of the firm belief that the release of True Faith and Substance built the core of their American Audience though I could be wrong).
