The beauty of hindsight. (After 11 years, I really like 'Republic'.)

I was listening to 'Republic' on the way home from work today. It's funny to listen to those songs after 11 years, knowing pretty much all they're about now (spooky how some of the words are so obviously and clearly directed at Tony Wilson right around the time Factory were collapsing). It's also interesting to notice how much it's a typical New Order album in disguise, being that there's a lot of the four of them playing together as opposed to just programming everything, and Hooky must have played a lot of keyborads as well, since I remember an interview on Vox where he talked about how fed up he was with bass playing altogether around that time... Anyway, it's a great album, but it gets some getting into its mood to fully appreciate it, some knowing what was going on back then to understand what it is really about. Tell me about being ahead of their time! :D

Hmmmm...I dunno. After 11 years Repulic as a whole still gets on my tits...esp REGRET. I know, I know!! "Regret?" you say...well, frankly I'm tired of it. I have gotten into World and Everyone Everywhere a bit more though.

And Ruined...it's not bad either. Maybe someday I'll dig it...

Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS Hmmmm...I dunno. After 11 years Repulic as a whole still gets on my tits...esp REGRET. I know, I know!! "Regret?" you say...well, frankly I'm tired of it. I have gotten into World and Everyone Everywhere a bit more though.And Ruined...it's not bad either. Maybe someday I'll dig it...

Do you like Times change or Avanlanche yet? I sure as hell never will.

Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS Hmmmm...I dunno. After 11 years Repulic as a whole still gets on my tits...esp REGRET. I know, I know!! "Regret?" you say...well, frankly I'm tired of it. I have gotten into World and Everyone Everywhere a bit more though.And Ruined...it's not bad either. Maybe someday I'll dig it...

Do you like Times change or Avanlanche yet? I sure as hell never will.

No, not really. For a time back ye olde ninties I kinda liked Avanlanche...but these days and with the traffic in San Diego (As you know) I prefer a bit more crunch in my bowl of New ORder

I've always liked it. It came along when I was going through a rough patch and the songs really resonated with me.

and I must admit to being a bit of a Spooky-maniac when it first broke...I know, how sad is that? But hey...I was in to that dancy shit back then and the Spooky single and it's remixes were cool shit. Now...just mostly shit.

WOW!! Aren't I a potty mouth?!!

Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS > Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS Hmmmm...I dunno. After 11 years Repulic as a whole still gets on my tits...esp REGRET. I know, I know!! "Regret?" you say...well, frankly I'm tired of it. I have gotten into World and Everyone Everywhere a bit more though.And Ruined...it's not bad either. Maybe someday I'll dig it...

Do you like Times change or Avanlanche yet? I sure as hell never will.

No, not really. For a time back ye olde ninties I kinda liked Avanlanche...but these days and with the traffic in San Diego (As you know) I prefer a bit more crunch in my bowl of New ORder A little bit more crunch, you mean like Chemical ? I don't deal with traffic, I take the shuttle to get to the university.

Nai...as in the Low-Life/Brotherhood era and thier older live stuff.

Shuttle aye!! I live in La Mesa area and work in Point Loma...so not an option for me.

Republic is a great album. Seriously. Lyrically it's one of Bernards best efforts. If only Hooky had bothered strapping on the Bass to give it a bit more Substance. Still ranks behind Low Life, Technique & Brotherhood in my favorites list but sometimes edges out Get Ready for the 4th spot.

Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid Republic is a great album. Seriously. Lyrically it's one of Bernards best efforts. If only Hooky had bothered strapping on the Bass to give it a bit more Substance. Still ranks behind Low Life, Technique & Brotherhood in my favorites list but sometimes edges out Get Ready for the 4th spot.

Edges out Get Ready?? Serious?! Ouch BLT...very ouch.

Originally posted by Spotnick I always liked Republic, it's not one of their best, but it's a good album nevertheless.Times Change is good, at least they tried to experiment something new... kind of song you listen to when you are depressed.Chemical on the other hand is pure crap.... as Liar is, and I kind of liked it at first, now, there is not enough cheese in the world to proove how cheesy it is...Special is a pure gem. Spooky has better remixes than album version though.Regret is good, but again, having heard the song 1 month before the album release, I still feel it's not part of the album.

Spotty...you have freakin nailed it with the whole CHEESE line!!

All Hail Spotnick!!:D

Originally posted by Sir CHUNKS > Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid> Republic is a great album. Seriously. Lyrically it's one of Bernards best efforts. If only Hooky had bothered strapping on the Bass to give it a bit more Substance. Still ranks behind Low Life, Technique & Brotherhood in my favorites list but sometimes edges out Get Ready for the 4th spot.

Edges out Get Ready?? Serious?! Ouch BLT...very ouch.

The word SOMETIMES is a compound word meaning exactly what the two words that form it literally mean SOME TIMES as in NOT ALWAYS.

Remember, Get Ready has SLOW JAM and ROCK THE SHACK...two of the worst songs they ever wrote. Lyrically, Get Ready is very disappointing. LIAR, on the other hand, while hated by most here is one of my favorites.

Today, Get Ready would be in the 4 slot (if some Newbie decides to start a poll!)

I haven't time to sympathize with all this NONSENSE!!!!!

Originally posted by Drunken Monkey look...I'm tired of you lot slagging rock the shack...it isn't THAT bad!!!:p

It's only the piss-poor lyrics that let it down. Tune-wise it is reminiscent of JD in places.

To put it all in perspective, try this.

Well over half the next New Order album after Technique ended up as "Electronic". Half the next Electronic album ended up as "Republic". That should give you a clue as to songwriting duties and prevailing attitudes towards the future of New Order at the time.

It's strange, I always end firing up itunes and listening to the songs that are being spoken of when I come to this site. I always liked 'Special', I thought it was a hidden gem. Really liked, and still do 'World', It reminds me of an 808 State song called 'Lift' I think. Although it's much better. On the whole Republic for me is ok, probably on a par with low-life (I don't agree with the prevailing view that Low-life is one of their best).

I wonder if the best one is the first one you heard. For me the first full album was PCL so for me it's the one by which all others are judged.

Also Slow jam is a great song - it just has awful lyrics - but hey it's not like anyone here will have THAT coming as a surprise - I dunno perhaps Barney was doing on purpose as a *&$%you to all the people that say his lyrics are crap... RTS sounds better live.

Yay! Wire are playing here in a couple of weeks - I can't wait...

It's only the piss-poor lyrics that let it down. Tune-wise it is reminiscent of JD in places.

I agree with you this - Probably is a total classic for people with English as a second language, like Australians

I really can't understand all the hate around this place for Slow Jam. Classic New Order, right up there with some of the great older stuff! A classic, classic Hooky bassline (the way it fits in with the guitar...wow), great melody and chorus. The tension between the dragging/shuffling synth/drum pulse and the rest of the song really makes it for me. The lyrics? Look they're fine, they really are. They make perfect (non)sense to me - plus, who else but Barney can do this.....*thing* that he does with words.

Rock The Shack on the other hand.... Let's just say that the fool Gillespie must be kept at arm's length in the future. Likewise Corgan.

But to get back to the point - Get Ready is still a marvel and is really infinitely better than Republic.

Sorry, can't agree. Slow Jam is the absolute pits. Even if it were an instrumental it would still be anathema to these ears.

I am so glad they didn't record it in January 1979 for the first Peel Session, as I would never have bothered with them.

Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid Republic is a great album. Seriously. Lyrically it's one of Bernards best efforts. If only Hooky had bothered strapping on the Bass to give it a bit more Substance. Still ranks behind Low Life, Technique & Brotherhood in my favorites list but sometimes edges out Get Ready for the 4th spot.

You don't rate PCL even as high as Get Ready?

**Slow Jam is the absolute pits. Even if it were an instrumental it would still be anathema to these ears.**

So tell us WHY then!

It's got a shuffling sort of sound to it that I really don't like at all. Tune wise, it is boring and repetitive. Add the most banal set of dross Barney has ever come up with as an excuse for lyrics, and you have a recipe for sheer unmitigated disaster. Thank God they didn't play Every Little Counts immediately after it, or I would have walked out.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Low-Life It's got a shuffling sort of sound to it that I really don't like at all. Tune wise, it is boring and repetitive. Add the most banal set of dross Barney has ever come up with as an excuse for lyrics, and you have a recipe for sheer unmitigated disaster. Thank God they didn't play Every Little Counts immediately after it, or I would have walked out.

Walked out of, um, where?!

Wherever (as in which live venue) they were playing it.....thankfully I was spared this catastrophe.

The only song on Republic that has grown on me in the last 11 years is EVERYONE EVERYWHERE. Which I now think is a beautiful melancholic song :)

I have held pretty much the same opinions on all the other tracks since the first few months of listening to it when it came out.

Great tracks on republic: Regret, Special Good tracks on republic: Spooky, Ruined in a day, Everyone Everywhere, Avalanche, World Crap tracks on republic: Young Offender, Liar, Chemical, Times Change.

Well, thats what i think anyway

OK - I guess beauty is in the eye of...etc

So.... Republic. I listened to this this morning. Hmmm - it really has to be the least essential NO album. Regret, Times Change and especially Avalanche are fantastic, but the rest are not great. It's the only album they've done where they don't demand that you enter *their* world....instead it just meekly sits there *fitting in* with the times. Hague's thin, all-surface, no grit production is a BIG problem here, as is the bloody Italo-house piano which is smeared everywhere. The only trax that try and prise apart the layers of politeness and breathe a little are the ones that actually work. Times Change is by no means a great song on its own merits, but in context it nearly IS. I have a little time for World and Ruined...the odd little detail keeps them out of the mire, but hell, I'm only giving them the time of day because they're New Order.

**OK - I guess beauty is in the eye of...etc** This in reply to Low Life's critique of Slow Jam.

Originally posted by DC **OK - I guess beauty is in the eye of...etc** This in reply to Low Life's critique of Slow Jam.

Absolutely. Unless your name is Tiresias !