Topic for Mario, Dutch Jim, Coen, Y. Offender.....

Hi my friends,

Just thought I'd bring up a most curious - not to mention topical - issue here, seeing that I posted a couple of threads whilst in Amsterdam. Have you guys heard about the Dutch-style coffeeshop that's been operating here in my home town of Stockport, outside Manchester, England?? I don't know if you been following the news, but there has been another "police bust" today - where the owner and nearly 15 customers got arrested. This is such a joke, honestly. It shows you just how out of touch and clueless some people really are here in England. I mean, the Government have been proposing to re-class soft drug usage next spring. Fair point, but we seem stuck in the dark ages as regards how the police are handling the situation. Only two months ago, when this cannabis cafe opened, there was a press outcry and lots of coverage showing the owner being arrested before a single customer stepped in. Two months later - after an inexplicable "cooling off" period where the police in Stockport have apparently "tolerated" the existence of this place - just as it's about to swing into proper business with punters quietly going about their own affairs, it gets busted once again - and makes the national news. Ridiculous. This looks like some sort of pathetic cat and mouse game.... Like I said....how backward and fucked up is this country, and our police force? It's like double standards with this lot all the time. I don't think Britain will ever become a modern European country like Holland. We're too bleedin' backward!
What do you guys think of all this confusion and constant dithering over the issue?

Let's have a debate here!!

YOU JUST WON'T BELIEVE ME WHEN I TELL YOU that these sort of things were also happening in my hometown about10/15 years ago.They wouldnt actually bust the coffeeshop but just pick up teeners coming out of it.At the time there was some difference in interpretating the law on soft drugs. Each and every city hjad its own policy on softdrugs.Nowadays there is only a few restrictions to settle a shop if you want. it cant be to close to a school there is also a limit of the amount of shops! 1 shop/25.000 inhabitants or something like that. The debate nowadays is more about legalizing the home growers that suplie all the shops.Imagine,you can havew a totally legal shop, but the guy suppling you still has to come through the backdoor!! Maybe in the future England will get more relaxed on this topic. I know the Germans have!(much to my surprise. Here is another nice dutch expression for you: "een tevreden roker is geen onruststoker"

going home now.I'LL BE BACK,tomorrow 17.00 hrs.

You can check on the stories of the Stockport Cannabis Cafe fiasco in these three links:

www.drugscope.org.uk/news\_item

www.whspliff.net/coffee.html

www.observer.co.uk/uk\_news/story

I'll put a few more up as and when I see them over the next day or two....

Well, Martin, there's a positive aspect. The politics of your country are evolving (is this the right expression?), and now they are even prepared to reconsider their policy. Although the police (etc.) themselves tend to hold on to their 'old' standards, and make these busts and so on.

You know that the Dutch 'liberal' policy on soft-drugs (it is NOT applicable to harddrugs!!!!) is much discussed and internationally considered to be controversial. Several official studies have lead to the conclusion that this policy leads to less crime and less abuse.

Well, let's see what your country will do, next months/years. Anyhow, for the time being you always have a good reason to come to Holland!! :D

JJ

Yeah, but Jim, you know how slow things happen here in Britain - compared to the rest of Europe, we're still in the dark ages....and boy does it show! They may be talking about re-addressing everything and rethinking their policy but if the past record of this government (any government in th UK is crap - they don't listen to us, that's the whole point of their sole existence, to be out of touch with the public, see?) is anything to go by, you can expect lots of debate and dicking around and changing their minds and going back on their word and generally pissing away any good opportunity they have to set things straight - this is what they're still doing as regards , say for example, lowering the age of consent for gays to 16, and equality for women at retirement age, and our shite public transport system, and treatment of young offenders, etc etc.... it takes them years and years of fannying about, wasting taxpayers money and reneging on their promises just so that at the end of the day they can say they've done a lot of research into these issues but in reality all they've done is sat on their big fat asses talking and talking and implementing as much red tape as possible to make the whole process stretch out for decades by which time they hope the public will have forgotten about it so they can then say "Told you so....we've done something about it"...when any fool can tell you that they've done precisely fuck all. Is it just the British government that are so fucking useless at everything? I don't think this decriminalisation will happen, despite what the optimists say. This is the UK after all, and even now, the ruling classes still have the final, stuffy word on everything. If there's one place that should be wiped off the face off the earth, it's our fucking House of Lords. THEY are the ones living in the dark ages - they should have died out with the fuckin' dinosaurs!! They have NO place in this world - they're holding us back from being as one with a united Europe. Unbelievable but true! End of rant....anyway!!

Bloody hell Jim, the prospect - or urge - of me wanting to come and live instead in Holland just grows stronger and stronger by the day.....I really do HATE how this (once decent) country of ours is going....it's just being systematically destroyed on a daily basis....I just don't understand what it is these asylum seekers seem to find so great about Britain....it's fucking shit! Oh the scenery and the countryside may be nice but the people that ru(i)n it.....for goodnesss sake!!

Remember Martin, the grass is always greener on the other side. Not everything is perfect in Holland, problems in education (lack of teachers), health care (waiting lists) are increasing, as are the problems in traffic and public transport. And then there is off course the crap football teams and the (almost) non existing music scene! Having said that I agree that a lot of the liberal policies towards soft drugs have proven to be working in practice and have reduced the crime that was associated with it. In any Dutch town with more than 50,000 there are at least a few coffeeshops where you can go and smoke something. And it’s usually well accepted. As Jim mentioned there is a strict line between hard and soft drugs. Coffeeshops have been closed down if they were dealing in hard drugs. The whole thing is easier to control if it is not pushed underground.

And, here in England, we excell in all things "Underground" be it drug culture, club culture, or whatever. As you can see, the level of crime associated with drugs (soft drugs even) is directly influenced by the laughable laws that have been prevailing here. I mean, what happened here in Stockport the other day just proves once and for all to the rest of the world what a pathetically repressed country Britain is - I mean, even one or two of our top chief police officers have now admitted that a lot of unnecessary police resources-not to mention taxpayers money - are wasted simply arresting people having a quiet - trouble-free- smoke on a joint (in clubs, private, whatever) instead of spending more time actually going out and keeping an eye on the REAL community problems that matter - violent crime, burglary, yob culture, street muggings, robberies, rapes, murders......see what I mean....? Here in Britain the police spend so much effort just stopping speeding drivers or people smoking the odd joint when they should be addressing more SERIOUS crime - they just get their priorities all wrong. No change there then. What a bunch of fucking arseholes. No wonder poeple hate them so much now - you can't rely on them anymore. It's as simple as that. What harm has smoking a joint going to do?
Which is worse? That or kids terrorising people in their homes or burglaries and violent street robbery? They haven't got a fucking clue, the British police. And they're too afraid - and arrogant - to admit it.

Dear Martin,

If you want to be pissed off about a country, I invite you to come to America. Live with a bunch of bible beating rednecks and have no choices as far as clubbing goes. You don't know how good you've got it in England. You need to visit the pit of dispair aka America to really appreciate what you have at home. Stop bitching about a situation that is slowly changing. We will NEVER get a cafe like those in Amsterdam and Stockport. Now Vancouver BC is a different story and only 2.5 hrs from here!

Remember the Grass is always Greener (except the purple i get!)

Originally posted by Brian Geoghagan Dear Martin,If you want to be pissed off about a country, I invite you to come to America. Live with a bunch of bible beating rednecks and have no choices as far as clubbing goes. You don't know how good you've got it in England. You need to visit the pit of dispair aka America to really appreciate what you have at home. Stop bitching about a situation that is slowly changing. We will NEVER get a cafe like those in Amsterdam and Stockport. Now Vancouver BC is a different story and only 2.5 hrs from here!Remember the Grass is always Greener (except the purple i get!)

Hey, I though Seattle was supposed to be a happening town, Brian ? Unless it IS so dire it 's come as no surprise that it 's spawned grunge because the kids were getting so pissed off..... please, enlighten me further.....

I always thought The US of A was part of disneyworld??

Well i always thought, we get along like a house on fire