"Still" version of Ceremony

'pologies if this has been done before, but I've always been curious about this one. Why is the first 2 mins or so cut out, and does anyone know if a full version is available anywhere???

I think that the sound man forgot to press record (seemed to happen rather a lot with JD mixer recordings!). There's an audience tape that includes the full song.

Can anyone put up the full audience version somewhere. I'll splice them together - how cool would that be?

Listened to the full version about ten minutes ago - you can just about make out Ian singing the first verse if you listen carefully. Apparently the mic cable had been pulled out at the soundboard by mistake, and Ian didn't know his words of wisdom were not getting across to the 50 or so hardy souls in the High Hall canteen that night !

Mmmmm, I had a copy of the full version once but lost it, which is what got me thinking.

Presumably the same soundman is to blame for the cut start of Passover on the Paradiso gig. Terry whatsit wasn't it?

Birmingham's got absolutely nothing to do with Terry Mason forgetting to start any tapes !

Birmingham was edited out at the start "so that it sounded like a bootleg" (AHW) - the whole point of Still was to make it an official bootleg, with unavailable tracks, mistakes on the track listing etc. Factory's two fingers to the proliferation of bootleg vinyl releases that flooded the market after Ian's death.

Amsterdam Paradiso was short of the first two minutes, so legend has it, because the tape hadn't been wound back in time (they re-used an old tape to record it, believe it or not), and it was still rewinding as they began the set !

Amsterdam Paradiso was short of the first two minutes, so legend has it, because the tape hadn't been wound back in time (they re-used an old tape to record it, believe it or not), and it was still rewinding as they began the set !

Did you ever figure out if there was a set that JD played before what was aired on Dutch radio and got booted? I'm inclined to believe that they didn't play (much) more than what was aired, but would like to see something more conclusive.

--Sam

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 Birmingham's got absolutely nothing to do with Terry Mason forgetting to start any tapes !Birmingham was edited out at the start "so that it sounded like a bootleg" (AHW) - the whole point of Still was to make it an official bootleg, with unavailable tracks, mistakes on the track listing etc. Factory's two fingers to the proliferation of bootleg vinyl releases that flooded the market after Ian's death.Amsterdam Paradiso was short of the first two minutes, so legend has it, because the tape hadn't been wound back in time (they re-used an old tape to record it, believe it or not), and it was still rewinding as they began the set !

Sounds like typical Wilson bullshit to me - if there was a complete version of Ceremony from the mixer then it would have surfaced by now. Factory were just crap at recording JD live...missing Atmosphere from the Nashville, half of Passover from Amsterdam, losing the Bury tape, etc....

Originally posted by Philip Collins > Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63> Birmingham's got absolutely nothing to do with Terry Mason forgetting to start any tapes !> > Birmingham was edited out at the start "so that it sounded like a bootleg" (AHW) - the whole point of Still was to make it an official bootleg, with unavailable tracks, mistakes on the track listing etc. Factory's two fingers to the proliferation of bootleg vinyl releases that flooded the market after Ian's death.> > Amsterdam Paradiso was short of the first two minutes, so legend has it, because the tape hadn't been wound back in time (they re-used an old tape to record it, believe it or not), and it was still rewinding as they began the set !

Sounds like typical Wilson bullshit to me - if there was a complete version of Ceremony from the mixer then it would have surfaced by now. Factory were just crap at recording JD live...missing Atmosphere from the Nashville, half of Passover from Amsterdam, losing the Bury tape, etc.... At least Atmosphere from the Nashville has surfaced.

Originally posted by The Happy One > > Amsterdam Paradiso was short of the first two minutes, so legend has it, because the tape hadn't been wound back in time (they re-used an old tape to record it, believe it or not), and it was still rewinding as they began the set !Did you ever figure out if there was a set that JD played before what was aired on Dutch radio and got booted? I'm inclined to believe that they didn't play (much) more than what was aired, but would like to see something more conclusive.--Sam

It's unlikely, it would seem. It appears as though they thought they could just do 35/40 minute sets until they found out that an hour was expected, hence the longer sets at Cologne, Eindhoven and Brussels, which were similar in length to Paris before the tour and much longer than any set they played in the UK. Amsterdam became two 35 minute sets rather than one full gig, and nobody in the audience was any the wiser !

Originally posted by Philip Collins > Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63> Birmingham's got absolutely nothing to do with Terry Mason forgetting to start any tapes !> > Birmingham was edited out at the start "so that it sounded like a bootleg" (AHW) - the whole point of Still was to make it an official bootleg, with unavailable tracks, mistakes on the track listing etc. Factory's two fingers to the proliferation of bootleg vinyl releases that flooded the market after Ian's death.> > Amsterdam Paradiso was short of the first two minutes, so legend has it, because the tape hadn't been wound back in time (they re-used an old tape to record it, believe it or not), and it was still rewinding as they began the set !

Sounds like typical Wilson bullshit to me - if there was a complete version of Ceremony from the mixer then it would have surfaced by now. Factory were just crap at recording JD live...missing Atmosphere from the Nashville, half of Passover from Amsterdam, losing the Bury tape, etc....

I dunno actually, the name of the record "Still" and its obvious bootleg connotations, he may be telling the truth here, or at least having a plausible explanation that buys into his myth-creating rhetoric.

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope > Originally posted by Philip Collins> > > > Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63> > Birmingham's got absolutely nothing to do with Terry Mason forgetting to start any tapes !> > > > Birmingham was edited out at the start "so that it sounded like a bootleg" (AHW) - the whole point of Still was to make it an official bootleg, with unavailable tracks, mistakes on the track listing etc. Factory's two fingers to the proliferation of bootleg vinyl releases that flooded the market after Ian's death.> > > > Amsterdam Paradiso was short of the first two minutes, so legend has it, because the tape hadn't been wound back in time (they re-used an old tape to record it, believe it or not), and it was still rewinding as they began the set !>

Sounds like typical Wilson bullshit to me - if there was a complete version of Ceremony from the mixer then it would have surfaced by now. Factory were just crap at recording JD live...missing Atmosphere from the Nashville, half of Passover from Amsterdam, losing the Bury tape, etc.... At least Atmosphere from the Nashville has surfaced.

True, but from a separate recording. Ceremony from Birmingham has surfaced as a separate recording too.

Originally posted by The Happy One > > Amsterdam Paradiso was short of the first two minutes, so legend has it, because the tape hadn't been wound back in time (they re-used an old tape to record it, believe it or not), and it was still rewinding as they began the set !Did you ever figure out if there was a set that JD played before what was aired on Dutch radio and got booted? I'm inclined to believe that they didn't play (much) more than what was aired, but would like to see something more conclusive.--Sam

I think that the parallel with the Paris show from three weeks earlier, where they also opened with Passover, plus the fact that by this time, Wilderness was only ever played as the second song in the set, is all the proof you need, Sam.

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 > Originally posted by The Happy One> > > > > > > > It's unlikely, it would seem. It appears as though they thought they could just do 35/40 minute sets until they found out that an hour was expected, hence the longer sets at Cologne, Eindhoven and Brussels, which were similar in length to Paris before the tour and much longer than any set they played in the UK. Amsterdam became two 35 minute sets rather than one full gig, and nobody in the audience was any the wiser !>

Are you suggesting that at the very outset of the European tour, the band intended to play their usual 10-song 45 minute sets? If so, I don't agree. I believe that the band wanted to give these new audiences, who got to see them for the very first time, full hour sets covering their entire history & future, mixing the usual suspects with oldies/rarities (Warsaw, Ice Age, Digital, Glass Auto-Suggestion) and brand new/unreleased songs (Dead Souls, Colony, Atmosphere, Atrocity Exhibition, These Days, The Sound Of Music).

I know what you're saying, but this isn't a band who has ever given a toss about the audience in front of them. It's more likely to be a case of the promoter insisting that they do longer sets in order to appease the people who paid to see inside.....look at the trouble they had in 1982 when they short-changed the Rotterdam Glazenzaal crew, and the subsequent set extensions thereafter on those dates.

Originally posted by Detweiler 3.63 I know what you're saying, but this isn't a band who has ever given a toss about the audience in front of them. It's more likely to be a case of the promoter insisting that they do longer sets in order to appease the people who paid to see inside.....look at the trouble they had in 1982 when they short-changed the Rotterdam Glazenzaal crew, and the subsequent set extensions thereafter on those dates.

Maybe I should have chosen my words more carefully. I didn't mean to say that the band wanted to pamper the European audiences by playing longer sets. They obviously didn't: assuming that the average visitor to those European gigs was only familiar with the ten songs off Unknown Pleasures + the Transmission single, the known set lists consist of 50+ % unknown songs, which is hardly crowd-pleasing behaviour. But I do think that the band took into account that their European audience had not had access to the Factory sampler & the Peel sessions, let alone had witnessed previous live shows. So, not so much as a gesture towards the audience, but in order to present themselves and the "unknown" side of their repertoire, I think they deliberately chose to play longer setlists.

For the same reason, I don't think you can compare the 1980 and 1982 tours. The 1980 campaign was the very first campaign abroad, which I'm sure must have been something special for the band (maybe less so than the prospect of the American tour, but still). By 1982, they had visited these shores several times already, and they acted correspondingly, starting out in their usual behaviour with a "standard" set.

You could be right, it'd be nice to think that they put that much thought into it. It'd be nicer still to have more of the 1980 recordings, or even some more information about them. Maybe one day we'll track down the promoter.....

isnt there also a souncheck recording of ceremony from the same night?

Originally posted by Ian Pillar isnt there also a souncheck recording of ceremonyfrom the same night?

You mean from the Birm U gig? Sure is...bleeds right into a soundcheck of Decades, too; hard to tell from the quality, but Decades sounds better than when they "properly" played it!

The Decades from the gig itself is abominable really, isn't it? A member of the band told me that the tape had stretched or got fecked up somehow which made the synth sound out of tune. Dunno if it's really true.

Originally posted by DC The Decades from the gig itself is abominable really, isn't it? A member of the band told me that the tape had stretched or got fecked up somehow which made the synth sound out of tune. Dunno if it's really true.

Doesn't sound very likely, as everything else would sound off-key as well. Some (all?) 70s analolgue synths had a tuning knob*. Perhaps that was off.

*I know, because when I was in a band, at school, my fellow bandmate sabotaged the synth a rival band was using, just before they went onstage, by detuning.

The answer lies deep in the pages of "An Ideal For Living" - de-tuning the pure-set on an instrument was believed to be the best means of attracting the listener's attention, but unfortunately they overdid it just a tad for Decades !