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How Will YOU Feel When The Album Gets Leaked?

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... as it surely will.

There is a bit of a lively debate going on over at the Doves message board, where a good proportion of posters believe that it is taking food out of their beloved musicians mouths. ("Some Cities" is all over Soulseek at the minute).

I can agree to a point, but I severely doubt that anyone downloading that or WFTSC a month ahead of release is going to leg it down to market and knock out 50 cheap copies.

I'll be downloading it the minute I find it, and I'll do so with a clear conscience. I've already ordered it, and my motive will purely be the need to hear new music from a band I love.

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I don't approve of downloading music.

I only listen to albums on a Saturday night, in the comfort and privacy of my own bedroom, so as not to force the moment.

But I hope that, were the album to made available in such a way, that the band members would not resort to childish media tactics (and look like spoilt brats, for the sake of a higher chart position).

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Personally I won't bother: call me an old sap but I like the idea of picking up a new LP on the day of release and rushing home for that virgin listen while flicking throgh through the sleevenotes. I like that whole anticpiation thing. Have no problem with people downloading in advance as long as they buy the thing when it comes out.

BTW, Clive - have you had a listen to the new Doves record yet? Any good? I love them anyway, but they've gone up yet another notch in my esitmation as they're bothering to play Aberdeen next month....

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It's a new concept to me, to be honest. I didn't bother getting hold of any of the Get Ready material before buying the record, and haven't with any of the other bands I buy product by.

It won't worry me in the slightest if I do not hear the tracks before buying the CD, it never used to be an issue before the advent of the internet, and won't be now.

What does bother me is the number of people turning up out of the blue to blag a copy of Krafty. At least have the common decency to engage in a little community interaction before coming straight out with the same multiple request!

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This concept is new to me as well. I've never done this before but I have to admit that knowing the new single was going to get played got me all hot and bothered with the streamripper at the ready. I suppose if I knew where to look I would probably download it but I won't be upset if I have to wait for the official release.

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i downloaded the interpol album six months before it came out and i bought it when it came out i just got the bloc party album downloaded and ill buy that as well

i myself use downlaoding as a try before you buy its stoped myself from buying a load of shit i tell you

and how many of you downloaded the new NO track this time last week?

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I'd sooner it wasn't leaked, would be nice to get it on the day of release, without having heard it. I no longer bother with any P2P networks but would probably be bothered to request tracks by e-mail if it is leaked.

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Of course I'll download it. I'm supposed to get a promo, and even then, I'm going to buy the domestic copy to encourage the group, as I did with Get Ready.

And I won't buy the Japanese version, bonus tracks are nice, but they do ruin the way the album was supposed to be. However I should have bought the Japanese Republic, it's unfindable right now (the one with the Sabre of Paradise remixes)

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Originally posted by Hank Wiseass© I'd sooner it wasn't leaked, would be nice to get it on the day of release, without having heard it. I no longer bother with any P2P networks but would probably be bothered to request tracks by e-mail if it is leaked.

Just look at the Krafty threads, you'll have your answer...

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Just out of curiosity, why are you supposed to get a promo?

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Originally posted by oldmonkey Just out of curiosity, why are you supposed to get a promo?

He's webmaster of the official New Order web site

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If only that were the case - they really do need an official site, and this should be it. They are really missing out by not having official representation - just look at the possibilities, official announcements of gigs etc, records......

The approach New Order show to the internet (and indeed to promotion of anything like gigs) is still firmly rooted c.1985. Astonishing really, given the way they have embraced music technology so readily.

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Originally posted by Doctor Clayhead Personally I won't bother: call me an old sap but I like the idea of picking up a new LP on the day of release and rushing home for that virgin listen while flicking throgh through the sleevenotes. I like that whole anticpiation thing. Have no problem with people downloading in advance as long as they buy the thing when it comes out.BTW, Clive - have you had a listen to the new Doves record yet? Any good? I love them anyway, but they've gone up yet another notch in my esitmation as they're bothering to play Aberdeen next month....

That's a viewpoint I can respect, sadly my willpower isn't that strong.

As for Doves, it's truly excellent. Nothing that immediately smacks you in the face and nothing that's a huge departure from what has gone before. 11 solid songs, no filler. In my opinion better than The Last Broadcast, but not as good as Lost Souls. My only criticsism at the moment is that "Walk In Fire", which has single written all over it, is a direct descendent of "There Goes The Fear".

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Originally posted by The Haçienda must be (re)Built > Originally posted by oldmonkey Just out of curiosity, why are you supposed to get a promo?

He's webmaster of the official New Order web site

That's what Warner Italy is thinking. Ask them a promo, Nick. :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by oldmonkey Just out of curiosity, why are you supposed to get a promo?

Because I asked Warner :D

Complicated I must say, but that probably the only good side of running this place.

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So it's still not through any kind of official recognition? We really need to work on getting this site seen as the one to be at, don't we?

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Originally posted by oldmonkey So it's still not through any kind of official recognition? We really need to work on getting this site seen as the one to be at, don't we?

At least I got the press release from the official publicist, that's a start. I believe Johnny Giles and Chris Nash helped in "getting us known" to them.

But no, we're a long way from getting there... Warner UK is hard to get in touch with... especially when the people Sebastien contacted don't work there anymore and you can't find who's replacing them.

The band's management knows us, WenOrder sent them a batch of Community...

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Now back to the subject of this thread, I'm downloading the album as soon as it leaks! Everybody will be chatting about the album on this board and my curiosity is stronger than myself. How many of us decided not to get the "Krafty" MP3 when it was circulating?

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I believe Old Blue's question was, how will you feel about it because of people downloading it that won't buy it...

Not most of us, because we'll buy it anyways.

Those people might have bought it, but won't because they downloaded it.

Can't blame them, I've done it several times with other artits... best example is Interpol.. never bought it, but when Antics came out, I bought it on the first day it has been released.

Otherwise, I wouldn't even know who Interpol was...

So there's a good side and a bad side to everything.

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i tend to download sometimes but i dont do it from a kazza or limewire, i burn them off the cd to my harddrive and just do that and make my own cds, i dont like rippin off new order in money, they need it

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I wont feel bad at all. I buy everything they bring out. Downloading music is a way of life now, If bands want people to buy their cd then they better add dvd's or something to make it worth our buck. But New Order has nothing to worry about from me. They release it and I will buy it!

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Good point Spike made about the money side of it - after all, this release will be adding to the wheelchair and zimmer frame fund! :p But seriously, I'll be holding out until release, just 'cause I enjoy getting it home and hearing the FINISHED product - always have. (Not the same since the demise of vinyl though, eh oldies?!!) If there are mixes kicking around that are different and worth hearing, then I'll certainly download and have a listen if they're not going to be released. But until I've got a shiny new cd in my hand I'll be happy with radio play and all that hype.

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iF I could get a GENUINE PROMO i will.But then again i am stuck with the old days of buying a single or album when i can and listen to it at my leisure.I know the INTERNET is a good thing but what a DRAG when people are slagging KRAFTY before it is even out in it's TRUE format.I never really listen to other peoples OPINIONS anyway.Music is such a SELFISH medium,sounds good for one and bad to another!ALso i will be expecting another great COVER.Might go to MANCHESTER to buy the CD though.Seems kinda right for me here.But it will be hard when everyone is saying how it does not match up to TECHNIQUE.But what if it DOES.Let's be proud that they are BOTHERING at all.What else could ROCKET MICK spend his dole money on?Kids today...don't know they are BORN! :wink:

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Originally posted by Jeff The Chef Good point Spike made about the money side of it - after all, this release will be adding to the wheelchair and zimmer frame fund! :pBut seriously, I'll be holding out until release, just 'cause I enjoy getting it home and hearing the FINISHED product - always have. (Not the same since the demise of vinyl though, eh oldies?!!) If there are mixes kicking around that are different and worth hearing, then I'll certainly download and have a listen if they're not going to be released. But until I've got a shiny new cd in my hand I'll be happy with radio play and all that hype.

VINYL and a large COVER!NICE:thumb::laugh:

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Originally posted by Rocket Mick > Originally posted by Jeff The Chef> Good point Spike made about the money side of it - after all, this release will be adding to the wheelchair and zimmer frame fund! :p> But seriously, I'll be holding out until release, just 'cause I enjoy getting it home and hearing the FINISHED product - always have. (Not the same since the demise of vinyl though, eh oldies?!!) If there are mixes kicking around that are different and worth hearing, then I'll certainly download and have a listen if they're not going to be released. But until I've got a shiny new cd in my hand I'll be happy with radio play and all that hype.

VINYL and a large COVER!NICE:thumb::laugh:

And an "Our Price" "Nice Price" sticker on it! Yeah baby, shake your Zimmer!!! :laugh:

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Hmmm, MP3's before I get the CD...

I kinda look at it a little like masturbation before a big date..

Yeah, it's ok at the time, but takes the extra *BAM* out of the end of the night :p

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nah...I won't be downloading any of it off the internet...

that's just me though....bwhahahaha

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Won't be taking the contributions to this thread as an accurate market sample.

All I know is that over the last 5 years, the volume of illegally downloaded music has rocketed and in the same time period CD sales have plummeted. Now lets see what that tells us :rolleyes:.

For every kind soul like Old Blue, who downloads an album then buys it on release there's many more that stick with the illegal version. Why shell out for something you've already got ? unless you're the real hard core of the fanbase.

Not that surprised that professional musicians get wound up by this.

Think how little cash we had in our yoot, if there was a free way of getting albums then we'd have jumped at it. Ok, we swapped each others albums and taped 'em but that didn't give us access to much. Soulseek is like going into the Record store, bundling as much gear into your basket as you like then breezing out without paying.

I can't see anyone pursauding me that p2p sites are a swings and roundabouts situation. The figures speak for themselves. Fans gain, artists lose. In the long run I can see this costing fans too, some starting-out bands just won't find it commercially viable to continue and will have to revert to a more conventional living and their music will never make it out there. That'll be a shame but you can see it happening can't you ?

You can't halt progress but you can police it properly to stop it getting into the wrong hands. Record Companies should be thinking innovatively about how to capitalise on the download market and lobbying the authorities to put in place enforceable discencentives.

Can't wait to see some smug 17 year old net-head being dispatched to a young offenders for illegal downloads. In a cell with a GBH case...."so what did you do to get in here ?".....KER-POW!.

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If you look at it for a moment, there is an argument that the record company have no argument against the p2p networks. I mean, Warner currently have two versions of Krafty available as a stream, and it doesn't take much technical savvy to get them onto a hard drive or an mp3 player. Just a naughties version of recording it off the radio I suppose.

Still, I remember the good old days when you used to have to drive miles to a record fair and pay some scroat through the nose for an advance promo...

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Nice one JOHNNY.Have you finished KNITTING me that BOOTLEG SCARF yet? Cheers Rocket KNIT :D

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Originally posted by Old Blue If you look at it for a moment, there is an argument that the record company have no argument against the p2p networks. I mean, Warner currently have two versions of Krafty available as a stream, and it doesn't take much technical savvy to get them onto a hard drive or an mp3 player. Just a naughties version of recording it off the radio I suppose.

That's ok cos its the Record Company deciding to do it as part of their promotional plan. They're, in effect, happy to give it away, the purpose of a single is to promote an album and I guess they're using the stream in the same way. As a sampler for what's around the corner. They know that people are gonna upload it onto p2p networks but its only 1 track so they take a view that they can live with that.

Downloading a whole album without the Record Companies consent is totally different.

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Originally posted by Rocket Mick Nice one JOHNNY.Have you finished KNITTING me that BOOTLEG SCARF yet?Cheers Rocket KNIT :D

Nearly. Me Grans almost there. The first two she did I put out on ebay. We use the money to pay her Ovaltiney subs. If she doesn't get yours finished by the morning she'll have no dinner till Monday. I've told her. Crack on Gran!!.

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In regard to piracy issues, this isn't a new Britney Spears/U2/50 Cent album :barf: It would seem "those" fans are the disloyal, easily bored type who download it, burn it, and that's the end of it. That is, I would like to think that even a newbie Order fan or a mildly interested punter one would at least shell out some cash for the single.

It's New Fuckin' Order, a band that in my opinion is one in the same with fan loyalty and support. I'm all for advance listens, but only if the band gets their rightly deserved money, which many of the 'ard core fans are more than willing to shell out. But for me, I still want to keep the whole LP untouched for my virgin ears :evil4:

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Doubt I will buy it, I don't have all their albums. Their lame studio output does not compare to the live experience.

Mind you their quite lame live now , auto cue and all :evil4:

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i always end up buying the vinyl if i like a particular album or single. it's the only way to really listen to music (assuming you have a great stereo system and turntable). but the digital domain is basically a matter of convenience, and i do use iTunes frequently to buy music. i don't illegally download, but i feel that if you are one who does, and you do like the artist and like the album (at least), you should buy a legit copy of it whether it is cd, iTunes version or another commercially available format which will allow the band/artist to make the royalty deserved. There's no stopping any release from being available on kazaa or whatnot, but I'm not going to get mad about it - leave it to the legal people to handle that situation as they are probably the best ones to obtain enforcement. But I think for me personally, I need to account to the artist. I need to show my appreciation for their craft. So buy it by all means.

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Will probably download it but will DEFINETLEY WITHOUT QUESTION STILL BUY IT!!!

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Sure anybody can dowload the album. I will if I can find it.

I will also purchase the album as well. There is a presentation factor that is very exciting and important to me. Am I alone on this one? :confused:

Call me crazy but I love looking and admiring the cover artwork, I collect vinyl as well so I will be buying that too.

Also I will pay to see them in concert and buy a concert T-shirt. Who knows this might be my only chance to see them live.

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I don't much fool with p2p type programs at all. While I'm just as guilty as most of us for getting an mp3 of Krafty to satisfy my curiousity, I won't be seeking out the entire album to download. If nothing else, mp3 and any form of audio file compression, has a horrible sound to it and is not acceptable as an enjoyable format for me to listen to. It's a shame that most people have settled for this format and it's having a crippling effect on the music industry. If music sales continue to fall, nobody will be willing to risk the amount of money it takes to put out a decent album and several artists and labels will fall by the wayside.

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I fall in line w/what Bentley has added. It's been years since I bothered w/ a p2p service, and I frankly don't miss it much. There are some mp3 blogs out there where I can sample music by artist that intrigues me, though certainly the selection on those can't compare to Napster's heyday.

Once I get the proper album or single, then I will delete the evaluation track, because the sound quite often isn't as good as what's on the official release. I might possibly d/l Siren if I come across it in the month between the UK and US release, because I can't see a good reason to release it just before the start of whatever US dates they may have lined up.

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I used to download - a lot. This summer, I downloaded the Moz's new album, mostly because I was curious but never liked his solo efforts. However, for the Cure's box set and their album, I didn't download anything and I'm not planning to for New Order's. In my opinion, it spoils listening to the album all the way through when you first buy it. Downloading doesn't offer cover art or linear notes and you only get one track at a time, out of order. With an album like Technique, for example, the order and cover art also make the album. If Dream Attack started and Fine Time finished it, the album wouldn't have the same feel. Downloading also messed up my computer a myriad of times, especially on a college network, and I don't even use Soulseek or K-Lite anymore.

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Is it wrong to download albums that you once owned, but they are either ruined, too scratched to listen to, or you lost them?

Once I discovered P2P services, that is the first thing I did was Download everything I once owned, because I thought it was my right to re-own what I once did own.

As for order of tracks and album art, liner notes, etc...my ipod photo displays a copy of the album art when I play a song. Also, if you are familiar with itunes, you can easily set up the tracklisting in the same exact order as the original album. That is one of the first things I do is go on "amazon.com" and check out the tracklisting and setup the right order.

Liner notes can also be downloaded into your ipod's "notes" section very easily. I like to put lyrics, magazine articles, and other notes in that section. It comes in very handy.

R

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I steer clear of peer to peer.

I'll PreOrder the NewOrder album as soon as its available :)

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