Bells on Who's Joe

I tried to imitate the "Who's Joe?" intro melody with my synthesizer. I used a Rhodes MkII patch, with a slight tremolo effect, a little bit of distortion, and some reverb. It comes pretty close to the sound, although it's not as natural sounding. I'm willing to bet NO used a real Rhodes in the studio. Here's an mp3 file of what I did:

http://www.onetransmission.com/mp3/who's%20joe%20intro.mp3

also, here's another mp3 sample i posted earlier with a bell-like Rhodes piano sound:

http://www.platinumloops.co.uk/demos/keyboard_samples/rhodesriffseven140b.wav

I tend to agree with Bentley. It's a great intro to the album that sets a somber mood that is sustained throughout the album (particularly in turn), which is why Overtime seems so out of place.

It also contrasts nicely with the fuzzier, grungier guitar on the song. They may have also wanted to invoke a ship-bell sound to associate the first song with the sailing theme the Siren's Call raises.

I can't decide if it's a synth or guitar. The bell-like sound from 4:16 to 4:30 causes me to lean toward synth. Of course, New Order could make a guitar sound like a synth playing bells or a synth sound like a guitar playing bells or bells sound like a synth or guitar playing bells. The wonderful things you can do with technology and music.

Bentley wrote:

Patrick wrote: Yes, of course, as I've said already today, everyone is certainly entitled to his or her own opinion. I think they're funeral bells and you don't. That's fine.

Right... you also asked for specifics on my part so... there they were. ;) Cheers!

You're absolutely right, Bentley, I asked for specifics, and you gave me a very specific and well-reasoned response, and I should have thanked you for that. I do now! Thanks!:) And I apologize for not saying this earlier.:(

BIGINOIL wrote: I'm not saying that any of you are wrong, but now the bells have been pointed out to me, I have become convinced that it is symbolic of a ships bell.

I have no idea whether ships have bells, and if so what they are used for.

Wouldn't they just clack about as soon as the ship hit the water and keep everyone awake at night?

A bell on a ship? What a stupid idea.

And why would New Order put one at the start of their new album..?

As ericpear notes after your post, a ship's bell would be extremely apt in light of the voyaging theme of the album.

Kevin Smith wrote: It's a keyboard programmed in the range that we associate with the sound of a bell. It also continues under the vocals for some of the first verse and reappears at 2.30 to 2.45. And at 5.02 to the end of the song.

This is just to confirm that the sound I am referring to does in fact reappear at 2:30 to 2:45, although there is also a rather prominent guitar in that section.

I have been Googling ships' bells, and now know that they are not just in my imagination. The bell is rung to signal the changing of through the ship's watch (lookout, not wrist-worn timepeice). At first, the bell was chimed manually, latterly a clock would chime automatically at the correct intervals. The ship's bell at the start of WFTSC is automated, which explains the faint whirring and clicking that is heard before the chimes themselves.

The more I think about, BIGINOIL, the more I like your ship's bell idea. In fact, it's not at all incompatible with the funeral bell interpretation. It could be a little bit of both. A funeral ship taking you to the land of the dead.

Patrick wrote: The more I think about, BIGINOIL, the more I like your ship's bell idea. In fact, it's not at all incompatible with the funeral bell interpretation. It could be a little bit of both. A funeral ship taking you to the land of the dead.

I am sure they had both theories in mind throughout production, sir.

Patrick wrote: The more I think about, BIGINOIL, the more I like your ship's bell idea. In fact, it's not at all incompatible with the funeral bell interpretation. It could be a little bit of both. A funeral ship taking you to the land of the dead.

But Patrick, we believe in the land of love.

:\pimp3:

depthcharge wrote:

Patrick wrote: The more I think about, BIGINOIL, the more I like your ship's bell idea. In fact, it's not at all incompatible with the funeral bell interpretation. It could be a little bit of both. A funeral ship taking you to the land of the dead.

But Patrick, we believe in the land of love.

:\pimp3:

Are you trying to suggest, DC, that you think it's not a funeral ship? There's clearly a lot of partying going on in WFTSC also.

Are you still working on your episode-by-episode comparison of WFTSC and Joyce's Ulysses?

Frankly I'm aghast that you appear to have missed the TPK reference.

:\pimp3:

It's funny, but if you read from beginning to end this thread runs like a frustrating comedy routine where Pastie has to keep everything under control until the boss gets home: 'No, don't press that!', 'Oi!, stop it', 'Hey! - I said the red one not the blue one, pay attention!'.

Whether or not the bell is symbolic of a funeral or a ships presence should not detract from the simple fact that yes indeed, the initial synthetic melody is played by a bell-like instrument. My bet is that NO selected a present synth patch and applied some simple editing to purify the tone to a cold, typical NO sound.

Plain and simple.

depthcharge wrote: Frankly I'm aghast that you appear to have missed the TPK reference.

:\pimp3:

What does TPK have to do with WFTSC, DC, apart from the one obvious thing?

Huntsman wrote: It's funny, but if you read from beginning to end this thread runs like a frustrating comedy routine where Pastie has to keep everything under control until the boss gets home: 'No, don't press that!', 'Oi!, stop it', 'Hey! - I said the red one not the blue one, pay attention!'.

Whether or not the bell is symbolic of a funeral or a ships presence should not detract from the simple fact that yes indeed, the initial synthetic melody is played by a bell-like instrument. My bet is that NO selected a present synth patch and applied some simple editing to purify the tone to a cold, typical NO sound.

Plain and simple.

If we spend this much time on each 30-second stretch of the album, we'll be here all day.

I was thinking of doing a poll on the end of track 1, but it appears that this one hasn't begun to run its course.

With suggestions as far ranging as 'jazz guitar' to 'Fender Rhodes' you sometimes wonder.

Nobody seems to have picked up on, or mentioned the 'low-octave' bell-like heavy breathing on the closing seconds.

P, I didn't read your last post on the previous page before I administered the above.

Is that 'beyond coincidence' (the book I am currently firmly absconded within).

Huntsman wrote: P, I didn't read your last post on the previous page before I administered the above.

Is that 'beyond coincidence' (the book I am currently firmly absconded within).

Actually, H, I thought I had made reference to that sound previously. I think of it as "the sound of a monster breathing." The last time I mentioned it, nobody was interested.

It's not wholly coincidental, H. The beginning of track 1 and the end of track 1 are not unrelated. But of course you are right that it is a striking coincidence that we should both bring it up at precisely the same time.

Not such a coincidence to some of us ...

:\pimp3:

I wonder if it would be at all relevant to crowbar in the highlights of the last few pages of the coincidence book, the subject matter itself, quite coincidental.

The book 'The Titan' and the coincidences with the doomed ship 'The Titanic'.

Is that a coincidence?

Huntsman wrote: I wonder if it would be at all relevant to crowbar in the highlights of the last few pages of the coincidence book, the subject matter itself, quite coincidental.

The book 'The Titan' and the coincidences with the doomed ship 'The Titanic'.

Is that a coincidence?

Are you claiming, H, that WFTSC is really a remake of Titanic, with Orlando in the Leo role?

I'm not certain that the consuming doom of the Titanic tragedy envelopes the dreamscapes of the NO album.

I do think there is much scope for some kind of Greek mythological movie with sensible appropriation of cgi effects for the monsters. In fact, I've been championing this for years.

Patrick wrote:

Huntsman wrote: I wonder if it would be at all relevant to crowbar in the highlights of the last few pages of the coincidence book, the subject matter itself, quite coincidental.

The book 'The Titan' and the coincidences with the doomed ship 'The Titanic'.

Is that a coincidence?

Are you claiming, H, that WFTSC is really a remake of Titanic, with Orlando in the Leo role?

...and that the ringing of the ship's bell is not to signal the change of watchman, but in fact the watchman ringing to alert the crew to something?

What's all the clicking and whirring about then?

Huntsman wrote: I'm not certain that the consuming doom of the Titanic tragedy envelopes the dreamscapes of the NO album.

I do think there is much scope for some kind of Greek mythological movie with sensible appropriation of cgi effects for the monsters. In fact, I've been championing this for years.

Are you talking about Clash of the Titans, H?

BIGINOIL wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Huntsman wrote: I wonder if it would be at all relevant to crowbar in the highlights of the last few pages of the coincidence book, the subject matter itself, quite coincidental.

The book 'The Titan' and the coincidences with the doomed ship 'The Titanic'.

Is that a coincidence?

Are you claiming, H, that WFTSC is really a remake of Titanic, with Orlando in the Leo role?

...and that the ringing of the ship's bell is not to signal the change of watchman, but in fact the watchman ringing to alert the crew to something?

What's all the clicking and whirring about then?

As I've acknowledged, Big, your revolutionary insight requires me to reexamine everything from scratch.

I need to listen to the entire album, and especially track 1 of course, from a new perspective.

It's a brave new world. And a new day.

BIGINOIL wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Huntsman wrote: I wonder if it would be at all relevant to crowbar in the highlights of the last few pages of the coincidence book, the subject matter itself, quite coincidental.

The book 'The Titan' and the coincidences with the doomed ship 'The Titanic'.

Is that a coincidence?

Are you claiming, H, that WFTSC is really a remake of Titanic, with Orlando in the Leo role?

...and that the ringing of the ship's bell is not to signal the change of watchman, but in fact the watchman ringing to alert the crew to something?

What's all the clicking and whirring about then?

It could be that the bell heard ringing on 'the ship', is simply the call for sailors to return from feasting on light snacks in the city centre.

The clicking and whirring could be appropriated to the shoes of the co-pilot, who was persistently warned against size 8's.

Alas, I have only the bootlegs here in the office. Their quality, and the quality of my reproductive equipment, is far too poor to listen for the nuances being discussed here.

I thank you for your kind words. Some exciting theories are being put forward by many people on this forum, and I am proud to be contributing in some small way.

I tried to find that post where a correspondent provided his own interpretation of the whole album. It was quite a frantic read, and at one point he concluded that Morning Night and Day proved that Barney is a COCAINE ADDICT. I remember those words, and the use of capitals, but little else about the ‘review’.

Does anyone else remember this?

I don't remember "cocaine addict," Big. But there is something in The Odyssey about lotus-eating, isn't there? As I've made clear, I think you've made an extremely important contribution to this collaborative effort of ours, Big, and I very much look forward to working closely with you on an ongoing basis.

After Big came up with his earthshaking insight about the ship's bell, H, it did occur to me that an occasion for a ship's bell to ring would be the sort of occasion you describe.

Or perhaps if there was a menacing giant squid spotted at starboard? I'd imagine that'd be worth a few frantic clangs.

Can someone satisfy my curiosity over who BIGINOIL was in a previous life - or avatar? He seems to have chalked up a few data entries but I can't place the tone or location.

:\pimp3:

It's only after such a left-of-field input has been submitted that you can extend the boundaries of the concept, which leads onto theories of theories. Without Big N, we may not have steered our vessel to even the thought of a ship after being so entrenched in the clanging bells seemingly ringing from a church tower.

A ships bell is rang, like a cars horn, to expedite presence, or to beckon someone, something or a collection of cheeses. I suspect that the initial bells are the Sirens calling from the rocks, with the ship the target of the lure as it potters across the crystal sea.

Likewise, it would be fairly pleasant to unearth the former name of the big friendly gentile.