Who should produce the next album?

As we all know, New Order is a democracy, as long as we all do what Barney says. :D

That said, I vote for Richard X.

The Chem Bros

I like the idea of working with a few producers, but if I had to pick one at the moment, I would say Ben Hillier. He is working on the new Depeche Mode album at the moment, but I loved his work on the Doves, Blur, and Elbow albums.

We'll see how he sounds with Depeche Mode and see if it might be a fit for New Order. I like Out Of Control and Here To Stay a lot, but not sure if the Chem’s producing would be the best fit. I think the sound may become to "samey" and be a bland record. Who knows though?

I say Gabriel and Dresden =)

The band themselves.

John Leckie, I found, did a great job. Like Krafty and Dracula's castle or not, they are well tuned I think. I would like to see him work alongside them again.

The Hannettarium wrote: The Chem Bros

I concur

Eno? :)

Ok the band themselves.

It would be good if the band produced more tracks themselves.

I also think it would be nice to strip things down a bit on the production, not to many layers of vocals, not too many over dubs. Keep the synths, guitars, bass, drums and vox to a minimum, keep it raw. It seems to me that the music biz is in a simmilar state to just before punk (over produced), the apple kart needs upturning again.

PWL:D

I wanna see that Pink FLoyd, i think he did a good job

Ah Eno! I remember when there was a rumor (or did someone make a joke about it in an interview?) that he was producing WFTSC and I flipped out!

What next album are you talking about? Because the next album (well, at least seven songs from it...) is already written, recorded and produced!

I'm surprised there have been no volunteers from NOOLers yet. There has been plenty of critisism for past efforts - why not have a go if you think you're good enough!

Obviously, I should produce it.

If not me, then...

The Neptunes!

Surefire top-ten single there. Pharrel could sing backup. Hip, fresh, urban, and today.

BIGINOIL wrote: I'm surprised there have been no volunteers from NOOLers yet. There has been plenty of critisism for past efforts - why not have a go if you think you're good enough!

It is assumed that we all think we are good enough, we needn't remind ourselves.

Ally3000 wrote: For the love of god I hope they don't return to Steve Osborne. I was originally quite interested in the idea of him producing Get Ready as I was a big fan of Perfecto's stuff and thought he could only lead to great things. How wrong I was. Guitars overdubbed to death, flat drums and an overall "messy" wall of sound. Only Hooky's bass managed to shine through on Get Ready. Osborne can't be fully blamed of course, the band obviously wanted the sound to go in that direction.

Ally, your venom towards everything related to Get Ready disturbs me on a daily basis ;)

Honestly, I loved the way GR sounded, and wouldn't mind the band sounding like that again. I'm probably the only one here that feels that way though.

What? No volunteers? I'll do it... clear my schedule! Blue Order, have them call me when you get off the phone with 'em! :D

On a serious note, I think the production on the new album sounds fantastic! Lots of subtle and not so subtle layers of sound with something new to discover on each listen. It may be too much of a pop record for some to bear, but it's definitley mixed to perfection.

How about Mylo

I know! Get the Pet Shop Boys to do it!

No, really.

I think Eno and Flood would be a great team. Their interest in both rock and electronics is ideal for a band like New Order rather than having a rock producer or a dance producer. Maybe Stephen Hague and Steve Osbourne could be good as a team for a sound not too clean like Republic or too noisy like Get Ready!

Eno did a great job with James on Seven, and they got another album out of the sessions too - the name escapes me right now. Wah Wah or something.

Strictly for the fans, an interesting document of the band at work to complement the finished product.

Ally3000 wrote: There are tracks on Get Ready I like (ironically I think the b-sides are top) but as an overall album it's perhaps their weakest.

You think Get Ready is weaker than Republic? At least Hooky plays bass on all of the songs on GR... I only hear signature Hooky bass in about 3 or 4 tracks on Republic! I suspect most of the bass on that record is played by computer/sequencer. I'm willing to bet most of the drumming is computer generated as well. At least GR was a proper effort by the whole band.

Anyway, I don't think we're going to get anywhere here. GR is pretty much my favorite NO record, and it's your least favorite. Any discussion about that record between us is pretty pointless at this juncture. Let's just agree to disagree :)

Trent Reznor should do it. Then we could have this Joy Division-esque return, it would rock. Maybe he should have worked on Get Ready, or he might have wanted to much synth then. Anyway, I like Trent Reznor, and it would interesting to hear what he would do with them.

Whomever is chosen, I want them to reapply Hannett's overblown, over-the-top digital delayed drum sounds again. Well, either that or the slight reverberation effect on most of True Faith and Technique.

I'd want someone who:

(1) would lock the whole band in the studio together with their instruments (rather than Barney and his computer on a yacht, Steven and his computer on the farm, Hooky off with some hookers somewhere)

(2) knows analog synths and how to record them (Aphex Twin, maybe? Not Karl Bartos...he had his chance)

(3) doesn't have a black book full of shrieking backup divas' phone numbers

Steve Albini?

Wait...some UK Garage guy. Dizzee Rascal. Wookie. Grime it up. Seriously. I want Wookie.

New Order, and one or two tracks from Hague, to create a real blast like True Faith and 1963.

Ally3000 wrote: I'm curious, was Get Ready your "first" new New Order album? I don't mean anything by that, I'm just wondering.

it surely was! i've stated it many times here and i'll proudly say it again. i'm a guitar player at heart, and i was raised on guitar-driven alternative/indie rock... i guess that's why i like the way Get Ready sounds so much. thanks to that album, i've dived into the rest of the band's catalog and can say that they've been one of my favorite bands for the past 3-4 years.

getting back to the topic of production... i think WFTSC sounds more over-produced than GR does. in my opinion, the guitar-based songs lack the clever and subtle synth/sequencer parts that GR has, and the synth-driven songs like "jetstream" and "guilt" sound too forced, as if the band were trying too hard to make dancey synth songs. that isn't to say i dislike the album... i've grown to love it quite a lot.

i understand that you're more of a synth/dance music fan, and that is probably where the root of our disagreement lies.

if i can make a suggestion... go back and listen to GR with headphones on, and without any distractions. listen very closely and keep your ears open for the clever synth parts dancing about between the guitars. it's those subtle layers that get me excited; everytime i listen to GR i hear something new that amazes me. (well, other than "slow jam"... i really don't like that song at all. the rest are fine by me, and the b-sides are all top).

here's a whacky idea...

what if steve albini produced their next record? that might make for something outrageous and off-the-wall.

I'm afraid if Albini produced the next album, it would be quite unflattering to the band as he's stated he prefers to be quite transparent in the process. From an engineering standpoint it would sound fantastic I bet.

Bentley wrote: I'm afraid if Albini produced the next album, it would be quite unflattering to the band as he's stated he prefers to be quite transparent in the process. From an engineering standpoint it would sound fantastic I bet.

that would be the point. let NO do the "producing" while having albini engineer/record it so that sonically, it will sound amazing.

The Neptunes

charles wrote:

Bentley wrote: I'm afraid if Albini produced the next album, it would be quite unflattering to the band as he's stated he prefers to be quite transparent in the process. From an engineering standpoint it would sound fantastic I bet.

that would be the point. let NO do the "producing" while having albini engineer/record it so that sonically, it will sound amazing.

Yeah... but I'm still not conviced it would be the right combination. Nothing against Albini.

Themselves or Steve Osborne. I think that I'm the only person here that finds Get Ready to be more electronic-sounding than WFTSC; sure, the synths of WFTSC are higher-up in the mix, but the synths on Get Ready seem to flow really well with the non-electronic bits instead of sticking out like a sore thumb like on the majority of WFTSC. Although the glitchy acoustic guitar in the middle of "Guilt..." is brilliant, IMO, as are the electronics of "I Told You So", the synths in "Krafty" and "Morning Day And Night" kind of sound more like an Afterthought than an integral element of the song like in earlier New Order material.

I really liked the production on the former much more than the latter.

It would be great to have New Order produce themselves this time around, though, just to see what happens. They've done their best work that way.

D.V. Caputo wrote: Themselves or Steve Osborne. I think that I'm the only person here that finds Get Ready to be more electronic-sounding than WFTSC; sure, the synths of WFTSC are higher-up in the mix, but the synths on Get Ready seem to flow really well with the non-electronic bits instead of sticking out like a sore thumb like on the majority of WFTSC.

Ah yes! D.V., you should read my earlier posts about Get Ready's production. You and I are on the same page about the synth layers.

Ally3000 wrote: There are tracks on Get Ready I like (ironically I think the b-sides are top) but as an overall album it's perhaps their weakest.

Sorry, I strongly disagree with you! Get Ready is one of their best albums ever, ranks just after Low Life for me.

Anyway, I think Arthur Baker should produce the next album. I really like his remixes and most of thhe work he's done for NO by now.

Baker, good call!

charles wrote:

Ah yes! D.V., you should read my earlier posts about Get Ready's production. You and I are on the same page about the synth layers.

I just did and I must say that I agree completely. The synth-work in GR is indeed much, much better than in WFTSC; it almost seems as though some of the tracks in WFTSC kind of say "Look, over there, it's a synthesizer! WOW.", whereas the synths in GR just mesh with everything else to form, as somebody else said earlier(in a derogatory form, though),a wall of sound, In a really great way; the same goes for a grand majority of New Order's best work, IMO.

D.V. Caputo wrote:

charles wrote:

Ah yes! D.V., you should read my earlier posts about Get Ready's production. You and I are on the same page about the synth layers.

I just did and I must say that I agree completely. The synth-work in GR is indeed much, much better than in WFTSC; it almost seems as though some of the tracks in WFTSC kind of say "Look, over there, it's a synthesizer! WOW.", whereas the synths in GR just mesh with everything else to form, as somebody else said earlier(in a derogatory form, though),a wall of sound, In a really great way; the same goes for a grand majority of New Order's best work, IMO.

Yeah, Get Ready's one of NO's best work's.

Muahaha!!! See that Ally? My fellow Get Ready supporters have rallied with me!

Rumor has it that Eno was supposed to produce Republic, but chickened out out because of the band's copious drug consumption stories. It would have been interesting to see what he could have done with them.

Gotta side with Ally on his view of Get Ready. I appreciate the fact that everyone is entitled to their opinion and arguing about it is pretty much a moot point but I'll throw my own opinion into the ring as well. It's not so much as Get Ready suffers from some not so great tunes as it does from an overall bad sound. It could have happened in production or it could have happened at mastering, but Get Ready is very harsh, brittle and 2 dimensional. There's too much grit and grind going on in the guitars to let much else breathe through. Also, the sibilence present in Barney's vocal on Crystal is so bad I can't bear to listen to it... and it's a fantastic tune. The horrible tone of this record pared with mediocre songs make it a struggle for me get through it. You may indeed like the "wall of sound" effect but I find it tiresome and uninspiring. Again, it could be partly in the mastering since it sounds a bit over compressed as well. It's just a sonic mess.

WFTSC has a depth of field to it's sound and a much better stereo image. Sure the songs are a bit too "poppy" for some, but they're well arranged, executed, and full of subtle touches in just about every mix. The guitars are powerful enough while leaving a bit of breathing room for the rest of the mix. The Drum sound is world's better here as well.

Anyway... rant off now. Everyone's opinion is as unique as each of our reasons for liking the band. So, if you think Get Ready is fantastic, then I'm glad you were able to get more from it than I was.

charles wrote:

getting back to the topic of production... i think WFTSC sounds more over-produced than GR does. in my opinion, the guitar-based songs lack the clever and subtle synth/sequencer parts that GR has, and the synth-driven songs like "jetstream" and "guilt" sound too forced, as if the band were trying too hard to make dancey synth songs. that isn't to say i dislike the album... i've grown to love it quite a lot.

totally agree with this. songs like crystal and primitive notion are really guitary, yet slick because of the more subdued synths.

Ideally, I'd like the band to produce the next album. However, I don't envision that happening for a number of reasons. I do like the mixture of producers off WFTSC as I feel they did an overall fantastic job.

What I wish is there was just one track that had the potential to highlight the album by way of a chart-topping single. Krafty is good stuff (I wasn't too fond of it in the beginning, but I'm slowly learning to appreciate it), but it's not up there, IMO, with Regret or Crystal. That's the glaring misfortune of this album.

I hope they saved some real crackers for the next album and at least one of them is strong enough to chart and draw more attention to the band.

With that said, Stephen Hague is slick and would probably know how to turn a single into a chart-topper. I never had a problem with him even though he may have been too glossy and slick. What about doing something similar for this next album as they did with WFTSC? Such as, bringing in Stephen Hague and a few other producers. Or keep Street or Lecknie. Chemical Brothers would be interesting, too. Not too sure about Osbourne or Baker, but I certainly wouldn't boycot it if they contributed! How about Moby? Okay, forget I suggested Moby. I do like the idea of a small team of producers with different methods and viewpoints contributing - it gives the fan a blend of all sorts of styles, á la WFTSC.

Sorry but Stephen Hague is not the answer, IMHO.

While he had a hand in a couple of NO's finest moments, part of his legacy is the overproduced disaster that was most of Republic. There are always diehard NO fans who claim to love it but ask NO, ask most critics and they're unanimous about its mediocrity. Songs like Liar are the absolute epitomy of it.

After reading over 50 reviews of WFTSC, I've noticed that the most common criticism of it is that it lacks any sort of danger, edge or risk. To suggest that now NO should drag Hague back into the studio would be to subject us to an album full of Jestreams and would signal the deathknell for most of us. Someone like Eno would be a more astute choice, or even John Cale, who the band have courted for many years.

It's all a bit redundant anyway isn't it? 70% of the next album is mixed already using the producers from WFTSC. So what's the argument about here? 3-4 more tracks?

:\pimp3:

My mistake-- I thought it was 3-4 tracks recorded, with more to go.

depthcharge wrote:

It's all a bit redundant anyway isn't it? 70% of the next album is mixed already using the producers from WFTSC. So what's the argument about here? 3-4 more tracks?

Nah, I don't think so. And you can always get another producer to work on those tracks again. If Arthur Baker did it, I'd be very happy.

Ruined in a day wrote:

depthcharge wrote:

It's all a bit redundant anyway isn't it? 70% of the next album is mixed already using the producers from WFTSC. So what's the argument about here? 3-4 more tracks?

Nah, I don't think so. And you can always get another producer to work on those tracks again. If Arthur Baker did it, I'd be very happy.

But why would they want to? Barney has said they're very excited about the finished tracks.

:\pimp3:

DC's probably right, but if a new producer was to come in I'd want Paul Epworth, who produced Bloc Party's Silent Alarm. He's also knocked out some decent Dance mixes under the 'phones' moniker, so I'd expect him to appreciate New Orders Rock/Dance sensibilities

Bentley wrote: The Drum sound is world's better here as well.

Don't get me started on drum sounds, or they're going to have to create a separate forum just for that topic.

I agree with everything Bentley's said up to this point, but the drums on WFTSC to me sound just like a lead plugged from the V-Drums brain straight into the console. Yes, they sit well in the mix, but ...

Listened to Movement on headphones last night, speaking of depth and space. Martin Hannett, man... I'm talking 7.1 Dolby Surround out of a $12 pair of headphones.

Arthur Baker is a good idea. Or the Chem Bros. or the Crystal Method works for me too. What's Quincy Jones doing these days? ;)

My opinion on this subject would be Peter Gabriel as New order have evolved form a synth based band to a more eclectic sound.

I reckon they should go try out Rob Kirwan again(he produced Rock the Shack on Get Ready-as well as the Frank and Walters Album"Beauty Becomes More Than Life")-he was a dub/Dance producer but he seems to work well-disappeared for a bit now though. Pity. I wouldn't mind seeing someone unusual like Kevin Shiels or Andrew Weatherall producing the next record though.

And What? You think Get Ready is a worse album then Republic? An Album Sumner tries to forget in interviews. Fair enough I suppose.

Also-glad to see someone remembers Aqua Teen Hunger Force as well. What a great show."What you talking bout Shake, There ain't no wolfman." Wish that was still on. Much better then Space Ghost Coast to Coast. Ahem. Back to the topic I suppose.

Stephen Hague, no doubt, letting Barney getting more synthy together with GILLIAN one more time. Possibly also letting Arthur Baker in to co-produce a couple of them.

OK, I know this will never happen but it would be THE perfect way to sum the career of the "best band in the world" (Flashback moment: The Circus @ STHLM Dec 2001, Arthur Baker stops Dj-ing...picks up a mic and says "Just let me introduce you to the best band in the world, my great friends...NEW ORDER". Stuff like that you simply don't forget.

Actually, in real world (not Utopia where I just was ...) the Basement Jaxx guys could possibly enhance Barney's beats and lines, along with a good level of Hooky (alright then, a bit of the Marion-boy's guitars as well) as long as Barney keeps his pedantic approach to it all.

either John McEntire or Steve Albini.

Albini is the only producer who can properly mic and record a drumkit.

Baker is so overated. I don't think Hague can bring something new to the band. Let theses guys in the past.

My choice would be Alan Wilder. Just take any Recoil album, the guy is a sound genuis.

What's Shep Pettibone up to these days? :dead:

John Leckie and all the people that work for the WFTSC! compare the WFTSC album with the GET READY please and you will find the difference. WFTSC got the clearest sound in history. you can hear everything in it with the most perfect way! it is an art of production.

has phil specter been sent down yet, give him a chance to do one last record, as long as he doesn't shoot anyone !!!

seriously though, i think it would be good to get someone from a totaly different genre to do it, a bit of experimentation, it worked for the pistols on never mind the bolocks.

Or how about anna dudly from art of noise, she does some great string arrangements which some tracks could really benifit from and she did strings on getting away with it.

I agree that Stephen Hague has produced some of the best NO tracks ever - and he also has co-written some of those - so maybe another album produced by him wouldn't be a bad idea. But personally I would like to have someone to push NO into the synths/electronic side. If they say they are out of date with the actual scene, people like The Chemical Brothers can help to bring these elements back to the thing. Or maybe Mac Quayle, who did my favourite NO track from the WFTSC 'era' til now: his version of Guilt is one of my favourite NO tracks ever.

Eno is unfortunately not very interested in New Order and would not likely work with them (god knows what he finds interesting about Bono and Co... probably a paycheck?)

If the band wanted to revitalize the sonic element of what they do they would work with people like Matthew Dear or Christian Vogel and Jamie Lidell of Supercollider... but I bet the band havent even heard of them... thats the truly pathetic thing... when you have a band who have made their reputation on being one step ahead of their audience who now is so out of touch with modern music that they think that Anna Matronic is a fresh collaborator... yikes!!!

And forget the Chems... they are as past their sell by date as New Order are...

Ajw

Oh lets not forget Autechre (who needs someone to pull them out of their own asses), Aphex Twin or Funkstorung... or Mark Bell of UFO who does such great work for Bjork... there are countless choices... how about Godspeed or Labradford or Graham from Bark Psychosis or... well any of the interesting bands that you could be listening to INSTEAD OF NEW ORDER

The list is endless...

Actually Mark Bell would probably be the best real world choice as he has been able to coexist with the godawful ex-hairdresser Depeche boys... surely he could put up with this lot long enough to finish a few tracks...

Ajw

BIGINOIL wrote: I'm surprised there have been no volunteers from NOOLers yet. There has been plenty of critisism for past efforts - why not have a go if you think you're good enough!

Yes why dont they let me have a go at that mixing board! Imagine what that would sound like...

Ajw

A scary thought.

BTW if you're talking about Mark Bell of LFO, his guiding hand recently produced the worst Depeche album in 20-odd years.

:\pimp3:

Steve Hillage

Hague, Osbourne or themselfs any would be excelent. I think GR is one of NO's best.

Whoever produced Such a Good Thing. The production on that track is some of the best I've ever heard.