Who should produce the next album?

Ally3000 wrote: I'm curious, was Get Ready your "first" new New Order album? I don't mean anything by that, I'm just wondering.

it surely was! i've stated it many times here and i'll proudly say it again. i'm a guitar player at heart, and i was raised on guitar-driven alternative/indie rock... i guess that's why i like the way Get Ready sounds so much. thanks to that album, i've dived into the rest of the band's catalog and can say that they've been one of my favorite bands for the past 3-4 years.

getting back to the topic of production... i think WFTSC sounds more over-produced than GR does. in my opinion, the guitar-based songs lack the clever and subtle synth/sequencer parts that GR has, and the synth-driven songs like "jetstream" and "guilt" sound too forced, as if the band were trying too hard to make dancey synth songs. that isn't to say i dislike the album... i've grown to love it quite a lot.

i understand that you're more of a synth/dance music fan, and that is probably where the root of our disagreement lies.

if i can make a suggestion... go back and listen to GR with headphones on, and without any distractions. listen very closely and keep your ears open for the clever synth parts dancing about between the guitars. it's those subtle layers that get me excited; everytime i listen to GR i hear something new that amazes me. (well, other than "slow jam"... i really don't like that song at all. the rest are fine by me, and the b-sides are all top).

here's a whacky idea...

what if steve albini produced their next record? that might make for something outrageous and off-the-wall.

I'm afraid if Albini produced the next album, it would be quite unflattering to the band as he's stated he prefers to be quite transparent in the process. From an engineering standpoint it would sound fantastic I bet.

Bentley wrote: I'm afraid if Albini produced the next album, it would be quite unflattering to the band as he's stated he prefers to be quite transparent in the process. From an engineering standpoint it would sound fantastic I bet.

that would be the point. let NO do the "producing" while having albini engineer/record it so that sonically, it will sound amazing.

The Neptunes

charles wrote:

Bentley wrote: I'm afraid if Albini produced the next album, it would be quite unflattering to the band as he's stated he prefers to be quite transparent in the process. From an engineering standpoint it would sound fantastic I bet.

that would be the point. let NO do the "producing" while having albini engineer/record it so that sonically, it will sound amazing.

Yeah... but I'm still not conviced it would be the right combination. Nothing against Albini.

Themselves or Steve Osborne. I think that I'm the only person here that finds Get Ready to be more electronic-sounding than WFTSC; sure, the synths of WFTSC are higher-up in the mix, but the synths on Get Ready seem to flow really well with the non-electronic bits instead of sticking out like a sore thumb like on the majority of WFTSC. Although the glitchy acoustic guitar in the middle of "Guilt..." is brilliant, IMO, as are the electronics of "I Told You So", the synths in "Krafty" and "Morning Day And Night" kind of sound more like an Afterthought than an integral element of the song like in earlier New Order material.

I really liked the production on the former much more than the latter.

It would be great to have New Order produce themselves this time around, though, just to see what happens. They've done their best work that way.

D.V. Caputo wrote: Themselves or Steve Osborne. I think that I'm the only person here that finds Get Ready to be more electronic-sounding than WFTSC; sure, the synths of WFTSC are higher-up in the mix, but the synths on Get Ready seem to flow really well with the non-electronic bits instead of sticking out like a sore thumb like on the majority of WFTSC.

Ah yes! D.V., you should read my earlier posts about Get Ready's production. You and I are on the same page about the synth layers.

Ally3000 wrote: There are tracks on Get Ready I like (ironically I think the b-sides are top) but as an overall album it's perhaps their weakest.

Sorry, I strongly disagree with you! Get Ready is one of their best albums ever, ranks just after Low Life for me.

Anyway, I think Arthur Baker should produce the next album. I really like his remixes and most of thhe work he's done for NO by now.

Baker, good call!

charles wrote:

Ah yes! D.V., you should read my earlier posts about Get Ready's production. You and I are on the same page about the synth layers.

I just did and I must say that I agree completely. The synth-work in GR is indeed much, much better than in WFTSC; it almost seems as though some of the tracks in WFTSC kind of say "Look, over there, it's a synthesizer! WOW.", whereas the synths in GR just mesh with everything else to form, as somebody else said earlier(in a derogatory form, though),a wall of sound, In a really great way; the same goes for a grand majority of New Order's best work, IMO.

D.V. Caputo wrote:

charles wrote:

Ah yes! D.V., you should read my earlier posts about Get Ready's production. You and I are on the same page about the synth layers.

I just did and I must say that I agree completely. The synth-work in GR is indeed much, much better than in WFTSC; it almost seems as though some of the tracks in WFTSC kind of say "Look, over there, it's a synthesizer! WOW.", whereas the synths in GR just mesh with everything else to form, as somebody else said earlier(in a derogatory form, though),a wall of sound, In a really great way; the same goes for a grand majority of New Order's best work, IMO.

Yeah, Get Ready's one of NO's best work's.

Muahaha!!! See that Ally? My fellow Get Ready supporters have rallied with me!

Rumor has it that Eno was supposed to produce Republic, but chickened out out because of the band's copious drug consumption stories. It would have been interesting to see what he could have done with them.

Gotta side with Ally on his view of Get Ready. I appreciate the fact that everyone is entitled to their opinion and arguing about it is pretty much a moot point but I'll throw my own opinion into the ring as well. It's not so much as Get Ready suffers from some not so great tunes as it does from an overall bad sound. It could have happened in production or it could have happened at mastering, but Get Ready is very harsh, brittle and 2 dimensional. There's too much grit and grind going on in the guitars to let much else breathe through. Also, the sibilence present in Barney's vocal on Crystal is so bad I can't bear to listen to it... and it's a fantastic tune. The horrible tone of this record pared with mediocre songs make it a struggle for me get through it. You may indeed like the "wall of sound" effect but I find it tiresome and uninspiring. Again, it could be partly in the mastering since it sounds a bit over compressed as well. It's just a sonic mess.

WFTSC has a depth of field to it's sound and a much better stereo image. Sure the songs are a bit too "poppy" for some, but they're well arranged, executed, and full of subtle touches in just about every mix. The guitars are powerful enough while leaving a bit of breathing room for the rest of the mix. The Drum sound is world's better here as well.

Anyway... rant off now. Everyone's opinion is as unique as each of our reasons for liking the band. So, if you think Get Ready is fantastic, then I'm glad you were able to get more from it than I was.

charles wrote:

getting back to the topic of production... i think WFTSC sounds more over-produced than GR does. in my opinion, the guitar-based songs lack the clever and subtle synth/sequencer parts that GR has, and the synth-driven songs like "jetstream" and "guilt" sound too forced, as if the band were trying too hard to make dancey synth songs. that isn't to say i dislike the album... i've grown to love it quite a lot.

totally agree with this. songs like crystal and primitive notion are really guitary, yet slick because of the more subdued synths.

Ideally, I'd like the band to produce the next album. However, I don't envision that happening for a number of reasons. I do like the mixture of producers off WFTSC as I feel they did an overall fantastic job.

What I wish is there was just one track that had the potential to highlight the album by way of a chart-topping single. Krafty is good stuff (I wasn't too fond of it in the beginning, but I'm slowly learning to appreciate it), but it's not up there, IMO, with Regret or Crystal. That's the glaring misfortune of this album.

I hope they saved some real crackers for the next album and at least one of them is strong enough to chart and draw more attention to the band.

With that said, Stephen Hague is slick and would probably know how to turn a single into a chart-topper. I never had a problem with him even though he may have been too glossy and slick. What about doing something similar for this next album as they did with WFTSC? Such as, bringing in Stephen Hague and a few other producers. Or keep Street or Lecknie. Chemical Brothers would be interesting, too. Not too sure about Osbourne or Baker, but I certainly wouldn't boycot it if they contributed! How about Moby? Okay, forget I suggested Moby. I do like the idea of a small team of producers with different methods and viewpoints contributing - it gives the fan a blend of all sorts of styles, á la WFTSC.

Sorry but Stephen Hague is not the answer, IMHO.

While he had a hand in a couple of NO's finest moments, part of his legacy is the overproduced disaster that was most of Republic. There are always diehard NO fans who claim to love it but ask NO, ask most critics and they're unanimous about its mediocrity. Songs like Liar are the absolute epitomy of it.

After reading over 50 reviews of WFTSC, I've noticed that the most common criticism of it is that it lacks any sort of danger, edge or risk. To suggest that now NO should drag Hague back into the studio would be to subject us to an album full of Jestreams and would signal the deathknell for most of us. Someone like Eno would be a more astute choice, or even John Cale, who the band have courted for many years.

It's all a bit redundant anyway isn't it? 70% of the next album is mixed already using the producers from WFTSC. So what's the argument about here? 3-4 more tracks?

:\pimp3:

My mistake-- I thought it was 3-4 tracks recorded, with more to go.

depthcharge wrote:

It's all a bit redundant anyway isn't it? 70% of the next album is mixed already using the producers from WFTSC. So what's the argument about here? 3-4 more tracks?

Nah, I don't think so. And you can always get another producer to work on those tracks again. If Arthur Baker did it, I'd be very happy.

Ruined in a day wrote:

depthcharge wrote:

It's all a bit redundant anyway isn't it? 70% of the next album is mixed already using the producers from WFTSC. So what's the argument about here? 3-4 more tracks?

Nah, I don't think so. And you can always get another producer to work on those tracks again. If Arthur Baker did it, I'd be very happy.

But why would they want to? Barney has said they're very excited about the finished tracks.

:\pimp3:

DC's probably right, but if a new producer was to come in I'd want Paul Epworth, who produced Bloc Party's Silent Alarm. He's also knocked out some decent Dance mixes under the 'phones' moniker, so I'd expect him to appreciate New Orders Rock/Dance sensibilities

Bentley wrote: The Drum sound is world's better here as well.

Don't get me started on drum sounds, or they're going to have to create a separate forum just for that topic.

I agree with everything Bentley's said up to this point, but the drums on WFTSC to me sound just like a lead plugged from the V-Drums brain straight into the console. Yes, they sit well in the mix, but ...

Listened to Movement on headphones last night, speaking of depth and space. Martin Hannett, man... I'm talking 7.1 Dolby Surround out of a $12 pair of headphones.

Arthur Baker is a good idea. Or the Chem Bros. or the Crystal Method works for me too. What's Quincy Jones doing these days? ;)

My opinion on this subject would be Peter Gabriel as New order have evolved form a synth based band to a more eclectic sound.

I reckon they should go try out Rob Kirwan again(he produced Rock the Shack on Get Ready-as well as the Frank and Walters Album"Beauty Becomes More Than Life")-he was a dub/Dance producer but he seems to work well-disappeared for a bit now though. Pity. I wouldn't mind seeing someone unusual like Kevin Shiels or Andrew Weatherall producing the next record though.

And What? You think Get Ready is a worse album then Republic? An Album Sumner tries to forget in interviews. Fair enough I suppose.

Also-glad to see someone remembers Aqua Teen Hunger Force as well. What a great show."What you talking bout Shake, There ain't no wolfman." Wish that was still on. Much better then Space Ghost Coast to Coast. Ahem. Back to the topic I suppose.

Stephen Hague, no doubt, letting Barney getting more synthy together with GILLIAN one more time. Possibly also letting Arthur Baker in to co-produce a couple of them.

OK, I know this will never happen but it would be THE perfect way to sum the career of the "best band in the world" (Flashback moment: The Circus @ STHLM Dec 2001, Arthur Baker stops Dj-ing...picks up a mic and says "Just let me introduce you to the best band in the world, my great friends...NEW ORDER". Stuff like that you simply don't forget.

Actually, in real world (not Utopia where I just was ...) the Basement Jaxx guys could possibly enhance Barney's beats and lines, along with a good level of Hooky (alright then, a bit of the Marion-boy's guitars as well) as long as Barney keeps his pedantic approach to it all.

either John McEntire or Steve Albini.

Albini is the only producer who can properly mic and record a drumkit.

Baker is so overated. I don't think Hague can bring something new to the band. Let theses guys in the past.

My choice would be Alan Wilder. Just take any Recoil album, the guy is a sound genuis.