FINAL STATEMENT (Dreams Are Over - PART 2)

Fuck! :(

Clarification: Fuck as in "Shit, that's bad" not as in "Fuck you" etc etc. ;)

i thnk FUCK is the word

I'm not sure if publically calling people twats, banning members with no explination and re-naming people as cunts is really a professional way to run a website. Quite why Sebs has taken so much exception to people is ludicrous. What the hell has Snake Briggs ever done? or any of the others.

I would suggest to remove the last post for many and several reasons before many people have a chance to see it.

Fuck indeed!

Why create such an excellent site and ruin things by saying such hateful words? ...

?

Tends to be a bit melodramatic...

I DO understand though ! tpgwadp anyone ? :p

Seems like a lot of things have changed since I visited last time hmmm... Well it's a shame it's going to end like this.

I hope you feel a bit better now Seb - though I don't think youre doing yourself any favours with these posts, calling the Huntsman a Cunt and advertising his real name all over board when he has obvious been well within his rights to keep it to himself.

I for one never thought of you as a 'fucking idiot' (though youre doing your best to change that at the mo) despite having different ideas for the direction this board should have been taking.

Between you and Nic you've created a superb site which you can rightly be proud of. I've yet to see any criticism of any aspect of this site other than this board. I have used this site reguarly not only as a reference for all things NO, but will be always be grateful for not only getting to chat to some great characters through the board, but also the chance to meet some people who share my passion with NO in the flesh, Allen, Liv, Hooky monster etc, and hopefully Shug, Tim J and others in the near future. Therefore in my mind this board has been nothing except a positive experience.

Delighted to see that a less than frequent poster like myself has made it to the top of your hate list Seb. Cheers!! Perplexed as to why this is so but "thems the breaks" as they say.

Anyhow while everyone else seems to be pussyfooting around the issue for fear of being banned and in response to being labelled a twat I'd just like to say a big "fuck you" to our strung out webmaster. Dry your eyes and get a life, loser.

Delighted to see that a less than frequent poster like myself has made it to the top of your hate list Seb. Cheers!! Perplexed as to why this is so but "thems the breaks" as they say.

Anyhow while everyone else seems to be pussyfooting around the issue for fear of being banned and in response to being labelled a twat I'd just like to say a big "fuck you" to our strung out webmaster. Dry your eyes and get a life, loser.

I'd like to echo Briggsy's sentiments as posted in the message above. This site has become an invaluable resource and area of entertainment - I have spent more time here than on my own sites in the last few weeks at least. Thank you both webmasters for that, and to all (well nearly all) of the contributors to these messageboards.

There was a sense of growing disillusionment coming across from Seb the Web in the last few weeks, an ominous sudden outbreak of good humour followed by a sustained outpouring of catatonic bile that seemed personally aimed at a few of the lifeblood members. Having already incurred the wrath of half of the powers that be myself, in my NOL infancy, over a quite innocent misunderstanding, the severity and even acidity of this outpouring wasn't as unexpected as maybe some people thought. It was starting to be clear that there were some cracks in the webmasters' relationship - various snipes from Seb the Web about the alleged apathy of Nic towards site management commitments were telltale signs.

Whatever lies behind the problems, I can't help but feel that so publicly falling on your sword like that doesn't leave anyone with any lasting respect. It didn't become an altruistic gesture, or the romantic suicide (so to speak, and with the utmost respect for the friends and family of suicides, being one myself) so beloved by the verbose theorist amongst us. Instead, it became a very public (well, to a captive audience of the 50 or so from the 3500 members who post here) throwing of toys out of the pram, which is a real pity and leaves a slightly sour taste in the mouths of all those who together have brought life to these boards.

What the hell did Snake, Facsy, Tabsy, and The Livster do to make it onto the 'most wanted' list?

Just before New Year Seb said he wanted to rename smilies as a gesture for our contributions, :huntsman:, :liv:, and :muffy:. Now that Hunts and Liv head the most wanted list does that make me teachers pet??

Well, this is all pretty fucked up isn't it? I can understand the guys getting bored with the website and having other commitments, so why not just say 'yes, the site is being sold' and explain why? No need for personal attacks and privacy being breached. Disgusting.

I just hope the site comes out of this intact. That worldinmotion.net message board is not as good and i can't see us all going there.

When love breaks down its never a pretty sight....

Though, Sebs, this IS a very pretty site.

Haven't I offended anyone?? Must be mellowing out in my old age.

M.

Originally posted by martin fradley When love breaks down its never a pretty sight....Though, Sebs, this IS a very pretty site.Haven't I offended anyone?? Must be mellowing out in my old age.M.

... actually, I find that quite offensive.

Pistols or Rats tails sir?

Being a student, my entire day is spent wasting my time. So, if any help is needed with the site i'm offering it. No need for everyone to start hating each other, i'm sure everything will turn out good. :)

Perhaps you might feel a bit differently if you had your name changed from Huntsman to 'Banned Member' for no apparent reason, subsequently banned from the site altogether with 'absolutely no word of warning' ... told the next day that everything is okay and you've been re-instated, only to find the next time you look the webmasters have changed your name to 'Cuntsman' and publically displayed your personal details after promising they never would.

Data protection act springs to mind.

I would like to bury the hatchet, after they have removed my personal details and apologised specifically to me. I don't think there is much chance of that as Sebastien has 'ignored my e-mails' and nobody has been arsed to help me out with the personal issue.

Shafted up the backside springs to mind.

Would you like it if the webmaster wrote an essay on how he hated you, changed your name to cunt and banned you without telling you?

Originally posted by Huntsman Would you like it if the webmaster wrote an essay on how he hated you, changed your name to cunt and banned you without telling you?

No I wouldn't, but that's the price of love (plus one) I guess :)

Jeff, I don't think anyones doubting the time and effort put in, and I tried to make clear how much I love and appreciate this site. But read 'Part 1' and tell me thats a responsible way for someone in a position of power to act.

And personally, if I was acting in a 'disappointing' method - i would have prefered to have been quickly emailed to tell me that I was being anti social or whatever. I can honestly say I've never tried to piss someone off intentionally (even you Hank ;)).

Seeing as how collective feathers seem to have been ruffled by "Morris Fan"'s ramblings, perhaps its time s/he added their tuppenceworth before this becomes a "you cunt/no, YOU cunt" free-for-all. This is just about the only messageboard I can be arsed with, and I'd be sad to see it go. But then, I'd rather see it vanish than limp on without the charisma/humour/personalities/idiosyncratic types that makes it as much fun as it usually is. The best bits of life are usually off-topic, after all.....

M.

Originally posted by Huntsman Perhaps you might feel a bit differently if you had your name changed from Huntsman to 'Banned Member' for no apparent reason, subsequently banned from the site altogether with 'absolutely no word of warning' ... told the next day that everything is okay and you've been re-instated, only to find the next time you look the webmasters have changed your name to 'Cuntsman' and publically displayed your personal details after promising they never would.Data protection act springs to mind.I would like to bury the hatchet, after they have removed my personal details and apologised specifically to me. I don't think there is much chance of that as Sebastien has 'ignored my e-mails' and nobody has been arsed to help me out with the personal issue.Shafted up the backside springs to mind.Would you like it if the webmaster wrote an essay on how he hated you, changed your name to cunt and banned you without telling you?

I'm not agreeing with what the guy has done, just trying to help.

Originally posted by martin fradley Seeing as how collective feathers seem to have been ruffled by "Morris Fan"'s ramblings, perhaps its time s/he added their tuppenceworth before this becomes a "you cunt/no, YOU cunt" free-for-all. This is just about the only messageboard I can be arsed with, and I'd be sad to see it go. But then, I'd rather see it vanish than limp on without the charisma/humour/personalities/idiosyncratic types that makes it as much fun as it usually is. The best bits of life are usually off-topic, after all.....M.

Unfortunately Seb the Web took it on himself to defend and even promote the ill-advised tracts from Morris Fan, so there is little chance of any tuppences landing in the styrofoam cup of penance or sense. Not entirely convinced that it wasn't the anti-French rant and ensuing tactless nuclear missile deployment that created an additional dent in the camel's back.

Originally posted by Seb Briggs Jeff, I don't think anyones doubting the time and effort put in, and I tried to make clear how much I love and appreciate this site. But read 'Part 1' and tell me thats a responsible way for someone in a position of power to act.And personally, if I was acting in a 'disappointing' method - i would have prefered to have been quickly emailed to tell me that I was being anti social or whatever. I can honestly say I've never tried to piss someone off intentionally (even you Hank ;)).

I share Mr. Briggs' views on this.

Sloppy feet, could Love Plus One be the first personal name related gag? ... if so, you must be commended for your bravery. Yet another reason why I never wanted my real name published, oh the embarassment of it.

The next gag will have to be something about hair cuts otherwise I'll probably not have a fantastic day.

Nothing wrong with your name Hunter, my real name is Mick Hunt but don't tell anyone.

Thanks Keeper of the Majestic Key of Life.

Now the rat has escaped from the baggage, and for all those who aren't bothered, this is the construction of my tag name on the good ship chicken wings:

Real Name: Nicholas 'Hunter' Heywood

With just a few strategic shifts of only 8 letters, we can formulate this:

'Huntsman'

a nick-name several people have used for me in 'real life' since I was born in a soup bowl back in the 60's ... the 1860's.

Its nice to know we have another 'Hunt' in the area. We should go hunting together and spear grouse for our dinners. Don't worry though, I won't tell no-one.

Incidentally, the eighties pop singer Nick Heyward hasd a marginally different spelling which I always say to people when they mention the hilarious similarities, every day of the year.

Oh, come on Huntsy!

Mike Hunt?

Think about it.....

Oh dear, sorry lads, I'm having a bad day.

I would still go hunting though.

Christ every time I come back to this board theres something there to Suprise me again

You really are Nobody's fool Huntsy

Since I saw rachel in it(below), thats becaome one of my favourite shirts

etc etc

Hunts, just thought I'd point out I hadn't deduced that(your real name) when I changed my name to Huntsman and posted that Haicut 100 was the first band I went to see, they were. And I thought your name was Nicholas Hunter even though I'd seen the Hunter/Heywood Site for San Francisco. err hope that's clear.

Briggsy, you little tinker, how can mentioning that own goal be construed as not mentioning something intended to wind me up? Now I've deduced you support Mansfield I'll be keeping an eye out for their results.

Originally posted by Maggie Simpson© Hunts, just thought I'd point out I hadn't deduced that(your real name) when I changed my name to Huntsman and posted that Haicut 100 was the first band I went to see, they were. And I thought your name was Nicholas Hunter even though I'd seen the Hunter/Heywood Site for San Francisco. err hope that's clear. Briggsy, you little tinker, how can mentioning that own goal be construed as not mentioning something intended to wind me up? Now I've deduced you support Mansfield I'll be keeping an eye out for their results.

wind you up in rather than piss you off. In a friendly way of course....;)

Originally posted by Huntsman Oh dear, sorry lads, I'm having a bad day.I would still go hunting though.

Heh heh heh hehhehehehehe :D

Took you a while did it... maybe i should have said my name is Wayne Carr or Aaron Mycock or something.

Originally posted by Seb Briggs wind you up in rather than piss you off. In a friendly way of course....;)

Get back to work.

Originally posted by Huntsman Thanks Keeper of the Majestic Key of Life.Now the rat has escaped from the baggage, and for all those who aren't bothered, this is the construction of my tag name on the good ship chicken wings:Real Name:Nicholas 'Hunter' HeywoodWith just a few strategic shifts of only 8 letters, we can formulate this:'Huntsman'a nick-name several people have used for me in 'real life' since I was born in a soup bowl back in the 60's ... the 1860's.Its nice to know we have another 'Hunt' in the area. We should go hunting together and spear grouse for our dinners. Don't worry though, I won't tell no-one.Incidentally, the eighties pop singer Nick Heyward hasd a marginally different spelling which I always say to people when they mention the hilarious similarities, every day of the year.

Certain amount of empathy accompanies this riposte, as one of my colleagues at the footy has the name Stephen Astley. His cousin is the fabled but sadly never gagged (p)Rick Astley. To combat 20 years of hurt he added his wife's maiden name, to become Astley-Morton. The urine is still extracted on a daily basis, indeed we almost beseeched a calendar change from our leader and mentor Blair (T) to allow us more than 365 opportunities to extract said urine from beleaguered popstar cousin. Defintely need a ciggy....(was going to put "fag", then remembered where old Maccy D comes from and decided not to allow him another bilious belch).

Well, in response to my being named Public Enemy #7, let me say that my threats to leave were based solely on the thought that Huntsy wasen't coming back, meaning a dearth of good humor which could only be bad news for the site. Now that he's back and better than ever, I have no reason to throw my lot in with the "adios amigos" crowd. I take no offence at being named to the Nuremburg list of war criminals. Considering the company I'm in with, it's an honor.

Personally I'm very disappointed that I hadn't made that select few. Obviously my contribution round here isn't valued either way ! :(

Might I just point out that the last twenty or so posts above are exactly the reason I love this forum.

Thankyouandgoodnight.

Martin.

Dear Sloppy,

Thank you for showing semantic sensitivity and not using a word that we in NA consider "bigoted".

Here's some irony for you: It would seem that the Huntsman and myself are the only ones to have the word "*un*" creatively melded into our names. (Mine in my surname by a poster.)

Who would have thought we'd be brothers in arms! :)

T U A

It's Giuseppe to you :)

Peace ?

Dear Giuseppe,

Peace. :)

Thank you for the olive branch. It is appreciated.

Michael

oh my god i've missed so much!!!!!!

as usual, ive been watching this one from the sidelines. i have to admit the callous side of me found it very entertaining. all this malarky was totally unnecessary though, it never ceases to amaze me how events can snowball and before you know it someones blown his top, had a go and buggered off for good. what a shame. seb must be feeling rather underappreciated, poor sod, otherwise i doubt hed lash out in such an unpleasant manner; he seemed to be a reasonably easy-going fella, well most of the time anyway; although there were some signs that he was starting to crack. oh well, dont want to start dissecting it all...

Seb and Nic, your job was really great till now. No other New Order fan made so much for them like you two did. I really understand that it's very difficult to keep the quality of the site without being supported, but you should keep trying and get some kind of advertisement support or record label support. The thing is, your gret job cannot be throw away in the litter. I understand that you're upset with some people that visit the site but that's very normal when you run a public thing. It's like when we talk about politicians or football players, you cannot please everybody. the only thing you can do is keep the constructive critique and mind about the bad critique to see if you can get something from that. All the rest must be left where it belongs: trash. Last thing: New Order is the best man. You've grown up but don't forget the best moments of your life with a New Order song in the back! Lucky for you and us!

No point in me just going over what everyone else has said.

I just personally find it a bit unfair that certain members had to be "named and shamed" on the board itself. Hardly professional. In my profession, if i made someone feel humiliated or uncomfortable I could find myself on disciplinary charges. Its just a shame that other people dont work by these rules.

I salute you Seb (funnily enough you said the same words to me less than a week ago) for everything you have done.

I love this site, and have been here almost everyday since i joined last summer. I have made some very good friends here, and throughly enjoyed meeting people at the gigs in October (Jarvo, Seb Briggs, Hooky Monster, Dave Hibell etc etc) and others too (Chris P, Mike Garrity) and am looking forward to meeting Tim and Shug next weekend. And this I have to thank this site for.

This place has become a haven for me recently, more than ever. Since losing my Dad I have been trying to find things to keep myself occupied, and its here that I have come generally. Reading Sebs comments today hurt me. Now feel as though the place that I used for comfort and escapism has rejected me too. But still, Im a big girl, no point in crying over what Seb has already said and can clearly never be taken back.

As for the rest of you, many of you (especially Shug, Muffy, Tim, Mike Garrity and Jarvo - and the others who emailed me at the time)have helped make the worst few weeks of my life just that bit more bearable...

Liv :(

This site has certainly not lost it's soul. Sebs (and Nic), this is the best site. I certainly understand some of what Sebastien is saying. NewOrderOnline is no longer small enough to be a hobby. It has grown up to be site that needs to be managed by someone full time. The WebMasters have every right to be stressed. On the other hand, we have Huntsman, and whatever he was going through. (Sorry, I've been away for most of this). Sebs said some pretty nasty shit to some of you. I can't decide whose side to take, so I'm not going to. I'm still going to come to this site every fucking day I can, like I have been for the past year. I hope everyone else will do the same.

Agreed Jason. I'll still be posting here. I came to talk NO/JD and there are still many who still wanna do the same. As far as I'm concerned I'll still post here as if nothing has happened. I'm sorry if that may offend some people.

I personnally think that since Seb acknowledged that he had acquired a girlfriend 2 months ago, and his demeaner had changed about the last 2 weeks that could only lead to one conclusion...............................:p

I am genuinely sorry you feel that way, you wanker

My £1's worth ('cause 2p gets you nothing these days):

I hope the site can stay the same as it is now (or, at least, as near to it as possible) even if it is sold. I've been coming here since its early days in its Temptation incarnation (I was one of the first people to join the fan community) and I've watched it grow into the best site on the Net for all things NO-related. I'd like to thank Nic and Seb for that and to say that I think it'd be a tragedy for NO fans if it were to go.

I hadn't picked up any really strong vibes that the site was in any mortal danger of imminent closure really, more that Seb had decided to pull out of it. As Nic says in another thread, there is a lot of work involved, but that he enjoys it as it is a testing ground for his employment. We'll see in time.

Hey Liv, I dug this angel out of my collection for you:

I was going to use it for a record cover many years back...my own ripoff of Technique ;) (seeing as I'd already blatantly ripped off the Low Life cover for my second record). Thank you Mr. Saville...

As far as Dreams Are Over (American Style), Reprise hasn't updated neworderweb.com since the album release here...October 16. You'd think that Get Ready's appearance on so many year-end "best of" lists might give the marketing folks there a clue...oh well.

I guess I bring this up for some perspective...Reprise has a full-time marketing and A&R staff and can't be bothered with tiny little niche nostalgia acts like our lads...even with Billy Corgan attached, who was selling out worldwide arena tours not long ago. I'm thankful for this site and this forum. That olive branch was downright nice...a fella could get all weepy...I kid you not.

Oh well...back to work. Thanks all for listening.

Oh, one other thing. All judgement about the "naming of names" aside...

I'm 34 and married with two children and (until two years ago) a mortgage as well, and it's all I can do to drag these creaky old bones to the computer to sign on. So, though I suppose I can empathize with the pressures of being 28 with a girlfriend...

Just you wait!

"Twenty-four hour potty person"

Originally posted by Gnu Odor Oh, one other thing. All judgement about the "naming of names" aside...I'm 34 and married with two children and (until two years ago) a mortgage as well, and it's all I can do to drag these creaky old bones to the computer to sign on. So, though I suppose I can empathize with the pressures of being 28 with a girlfriend...Just you wait!"Twenty-four hour potty person"

Such demanding things, these girlfriends :) I got rid of mine so I could spend some more time here. Now that's how you should be doing it chaps !

[Content deleted by Buster Klumpy on 1/11/02 9:58:16 AM EST]

Sorry about that whitey.. That post was meant for another thread...

It's funny when you consider I created a thread, some weeks ago, that was aptly named "do you have to be single to be active on this forum ?"

Originally posted by Buster Klumpy It's funny when you consider I created a thread, some weeks ago, that was aptly named "do you have to be single to be active on this forum ?"

I know :) Maybe that thread was the inspiration behind my life-enhancing decision !!

What was the result of your thread , Buster? That we all are singles? We could all team up then at the bloody singles-bar! Seriously, i don't really know what to say about all of the things happening here the last week(s). Due to holidays i haven't been able to visit as frequently as i normally do, so i missed out a bit on all the fuzzin' and fighting. I would like to say that i have lots of respect for our two Canadian hero's, they have done/still are doing a great job on this fabulous website!! Over the past months i have become a NOonline addict and i love it. This Forum is both entertaining as well as informative and i like to thank all its contributors for making that all happen. I believe that there should be room for NO related topics as well as for off-topics. Life's not only 'bout New Order and i have had much fun and laughs mostly with off-topic threads... Anyway , i do hope this site will continue to exist and once again, all my regards to Nick and Seb and everybody who made this site as it is.

Cheers

and remember......eh,....never mind!

I offer my time and typing ability if it's of any use, I don't have any other web-based skills.

Anyway, it's good to see the board is improving, seeing that Jarvis, Mickey Way and Johnny Giles are back to post

Thank you Sloppy Guiseppe!!

Btw these sideline comments of Sèbastien B, i might i have done the same thing and see it can be a bit confrontional to others, but respect the honesty.