New Order's backing singers Dawn Zee etc. Are they really necessary?

NO Regret wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

Hannett of the Apes wrote: .....they've stopped using their trademark studio trick of making multiple recordings of Bernard doing the chorus and playing them simultaneously on top of each other for that nice reverberating effect. My favorites were on Brotherhood, where it really seemed like they had recorded to entirely different vocal tracks (with different lyrics) for entire songs and played them over each other.

Yeah - you're right about that one - but he did that on "Low Life" first - the end of the track "This Time Of Night" being the prime example. :)

I always thought Hooky sang "whatever you may do to me, dont take away my dignity"

Hooky? I was always of the impression that it was Barney backing himself on that track - as indeed he does on all the Brotherhood ones.

I can very easily live without those female backing vocals. they weren't needed in the past, and should i feel not be on songs that were recorded without them like TF.its better then using taped ones though as they did in Oz. somehow it doesn't quite seem very rock n roll.

dont fret kid its cool you have your opinion on this and people will give shite about your opinion whatever it is.i bet if u said new order are cool as fuck i love them they are the bestest band in the whole wide world some nob would still dispute it even though they are on the new order website lovin the band and probably have new order for every occassion and wud gladly geta brown head from rectum entry of any of the band. anyway i know what you mean she doesnt sound that hot really sounds better on albums/singles rather than live.she isnt exactly janis jopp or annie lennox and is kinda ten a penny...im sorry all you fans of hers!

:p but using a tape recording is so retro dont u know darling!:D

who is your little purple friend in the pic? will u dye my neighbours stoopid cat that ran in a mirror today!

can i just say how imperfect is bob dylans voice or neil young and for fucks sake neil youngs the proper shit guys so if vocals sound a little poo and they suit the style then thats cool but with the recent new order female singer she aint that good and im sure they could find someone a little better they probably used to be mates with her mam or something and now they feel they have to let her step on stage and wail abit.:D

I don't mind the backing singers, but I would rather that NO went old school and didn't use them except occasionally (as in World). While we're on the subject of outside help, to be honest, I don't think the use of outside producers on NO's albums has really helped either and I would prefer they didn't use them. It was a cool concept to use producers on singles and not albums, and as NO are not really a major commercial force, why not go back to the old ways? While I like what Stephen Hague does with Pet Shop Boys, Erasure, and Dubstar, his only good contribution to NO seems to be on True Faith. The rerecording of Round and Round for a single was unnecessary and his production of Republic turned it into a pop record during the era of balls-out grunge and roughly produced rock.

NO Regret wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

Hannett of the Apes wrote: .....they've stopped using their trademark studio trick of making multiple recordings of Bernard doing the chorus and playing them simultaneously on top of each other for that nice reverberating effect. My favorites were on Brotherhood, where it really seemed like they had recorded to entirely different vocal tracks (with different lyrics) for entire songs and played them over each other.

Yeah - you're right about that one - but he did that on "Low Life" first - the end of the track "This Time Of Night" being the prime example. :)

I always thought Hooky sang "whatever you may do to me, dont take away my dignity"

Yeah it's definitely Hooky on this time of night.

Am I wrong in thinking it's Gillian on Shame of the Nation?

daithi wrote: So in another thread I've been criticising Dawn Zee because I can't stand that vocal style and think it is particularly out of place with New Order. Some people seem to object to this and are defending her.

So what do the rest of you think?

Should New Order ditch those 'soulful' backing singers like Dawn Zee and just do all the vocals themselves like they used to?

Maybe get Gillian back into the studio to do some proper backing vocals?

Or is Dawn Zee the icing on the cake for you?

I gleefully await a bitter dispute

I have not heard it yet, (my whole New Order collection is older stuff) but it sounds like she might be better suited for a R&B act, or maybe a House vocalist.

I think they should get Gillian back in! It is a disappointment to hear that they could be overdoing it with too much vocals and production.

I usually dislike "soul" (so stereotypical and clich'e) except in some House tracks, and nowadays everyone seems to be trying to "hip-hop" it up too much-

(playing into the African-American stereotypes too much...seems like the Afro-American -no offense, I am a racial minority myself, being Tahitian- artists always play into the R&B/Soul/Rap thing and it is getting so predictable...that is why I am not watching Usher's latest movie, a violent hip-hop dj-would have been better if he played a Trance dj!)

-and also everyone lately seems to go a bit over-the-top on the vocals om their releases.

One thing that attracted me to New Order was they used the "less is more" approach and the vocals were so clear, clean, and simple, not over-done or over-produced. Bernies vocals have a quality I appreciated.

Too much background singers and too much over-production makes a band sound like they are trying just a smidge too hard, and it is a huge turn-off.

Less is more sometimes.

Keep it simple, with the vocals.

It can work both ways...

i.e.;

Behind Closed Doors is brilliant, but simple.

The Perfect Kiss is brilliant, but complex.

craig's digitalwaters wrote: It can work both ways...

i.e.;

Behind Closed Doors is brilliant, but simple.

The Perfect Kiss is brilliant, but complex.

(me) I always thought TPK was lyrically and vocally a bit more simple, than alot of tracks done today, and that is what I was meaning...If you are referring to the instrumentation, then yes, TPK is indeed quite complex....and it is my favourite of all time.

What I was referring to, was the over-use of too many background vocals, often too busy and too loud, that seems to plague most of today's releases, and overly-busy instrumentation seems to be the norm nowadays as well...every producer has all the latest computer Pro-Tools in his or her studio, and feels it is necessary to fill EVERY single track on the multitrack recording, even if it has over a hundred tracks...back in the day, four to thirty-two tracks was the norm, and not all of those were used. Just because you have that many tracks available, does not mean that you HAVE to use them up. I am not giving up my reel-to-reel, that is for sure! I like to do it old-skool. Many producers nowadays do not know when to say "when" a track is finished.

TPK, while musically complex, is smooth, and not what I would call "busy" and jazzed up with crap like horn sections and loud rock and roll guitars, and background vocals all over the place...TPK is very dreamy and ambient, and the drum layers and samples, and the layered synths and bass-line are well-performed, and an example of utter perfection, and to me it is the way it all should be done. Complex, and layered, Danceable and uplifting, The low end in the drums are there, but not overbearing, the orchestration is brilliantly arranged, and full, yet with a somewhat chilled and minimal feel that not too many artists can pull off nowadays.

Well-produced, but not over-produced.

Everything fits, and everything works, with no excess. That is the way it needs to be done more often. That is why The Perfect Kiss is a brilliant production.