KRAFTWERK

I think Joy Division's production is similar to Kraftwerk's in it's use of silence, reverb,echo or whatever to produce a certain type of atmosphere. The same applies to a lot of the New Order stuff around the 'PCL' period, 'YSF' does sound like 'Franz Schubert'. After this time (especially 'Brotherhood')the space seems to have disappeared.

Can I be the first to say I'd like to kick Chris Martin's head in (thought not!), he's ruined one of my favourite Kraftwerk melodies for ever.

Oh yeah, Old Blue is correct about the 'Uranium' sample - I suspect this is a more likely explanation for any Kraftwerk visit to the 'Blue Monday' studio than any bass drum sound.

NO was definitely influenced by Kraftwerk, but Kraftwerk was definitely influenced by Afrika Bombatta(read Planet Rock, Planet Patrol, Looking for the Perfect Beat, etc).

It can go both ways though, Pete. My lad had been singing that melody all the time, so I played him Computer Love. Next thing I know he's knicked the CD off the shelf and is playing it on the stereo we got him for Christmas. He reliably informs me that he prefers the second version of Computer World on the album to the first one...

Isamu wrote: Kraftwerk was definitely influenced by Afrika Bombatta(read Planet Rock, Planet Patrol, Looking for the Perfect Beat, etc).

Please, tell me you are only joking. And if not, go and have a closer look on the release dates of the album covers.

Speaking Kraftwerk, the 5.1 DTS mix of the Minimum-Maximum DVD is currently blowing plaster off my living room ceiling. Kling klang!

:\pimp3:

Steve Campbell wrote:

Al Jarvis wrote:

Outoforder wrote: you only have to listen to "your silient face" new orders, tribute to Kraftwerk.

Which, basically, sounds f'all like any Kraftwerk track I can think of!

Yeah, that's what i said, but as I also pointed out.....I never heard a raw 4-track demo or anything..... lord only knows what the original track sounded like.

The synthy percussion at the start sounds like it fell straight off Computer World.

Steve Lea wrote:

Guilty Partner wrote: To a certain extent is my vote.

Songs like YSF, BM EGG, Thieves Like Us amd TPK are really influenced. Plus, Barney also used Karl Bartos in quite a few songs with Electronic in the mid 90's.

They also talk of Sylvester quite a lot and Patrick Cowley - anyone heard any of their stuff?

Kraftwerk's 'The Models' album is corking but I was really disappointed with 'Trans Europe Express'. Anyone recommend any of their others?

I think the percussion on TEE and Metal on Metal is fab.

Best 13 minutes I can think of

Patrick Cowley is perhaps best known for his 16 (or is it 17?) min remix of Donna Summer's I Feel Love, and his production work for Sylvester. Listen to the synth work on Do You Wanna Funk? Outstanding, and very uplifting in a 'let's get off our heads' kind of way. You can see why he found favour with New Order. He sadly passed away in 1982 to an AIDS-associated illness. Sylvester followed soon after.

New Order for me are influenced by Kraftwerk, but more so by Partick Cowley, Hi-NRG, electro, and in particular, Italo-Disco. Temptation, Blue Monday (which was NOs failed attempt to programme the beat from Klein and MBO's fantastic Italo hit, Dirty Talk), TPK, BLT, Subculture and Thieves Like Us all sound very Italo/Hi-NRG/electro.

Joy Division + Kraftwerk x Giorgio Moroder x Can(Patrick Cowley x Bobby O + Arthur Baker) = New Order

Al Jarvis wrote:

Outoforder wrote: you only have to listen to "your silient face" new orders, tribute to Kraftwerk.

Which, basically, sounds f'all like any Kraftwerk track I can think of!

It's quite similar to Europe Endless isn't it? I think so!

I voted hugely - for me, it was the underlying influence of Kraftwerk that got me into the Order in the first place, having listened to my Dad's copy of 'Radioactivity' as a nine year old (Dad, I stole that album from you - sorry!). Elements of 'Movement' just scream Kraftwerk at me, in particular the drums/synths - pretty much the same goes for the JD albums and 'P C & L'

But I love the way that they can be so different - Kraftwerk for me are just technically perfect and precise, but JD/New Order have that punky edginess to them - but fundamentally, they both have common elements.

Kraftwerk are full of contradictions and that's one of the reasons why I find them fascinating.

Andy McCluskey remembers going to Liverpool (Anglican?) Cathedral to see them in 1975, for what for him was a truly Damascene experience. He said all around him were long-haired bearded hippies sitting cross-legged on the floor when four blokes dressed in smart suits with short hair came on and two blokes appeared to be playing tea trays with knitting needles!

When they played Detroit and Chicago on their 1991 Mix world tour, the audiences were nearly totally black and paid respect by throwing dollar bills onto the stage.

They used to have a dislike for performing and even had this idea that they could stay inside Kling Klang and beam live gigs to thousands of cinemas worldwide instead. They've also said they'd like to send their robots out to do the gigs instead of them so they could sit and watch 'themselves' perform!

By the way does anyone think that the cover for Krafty is reminiscent of the reissue artwork for Autobahn? Just a thought.

Kraftwerk are totally autonomous: they have been with EMI for over thirty years, making them the longest still productive band with the company. Even EMI have no idea of how to reach them on a daily basis: Kling Klang - their studio - doesn't have a phone or even an address apparently. Bernard and Johnny Marr got to know Karl Bartos (former percussionist) and were given a time to call him on his mobile which was precise to the minute. Ralf and Florian insist on mobiles being switched off inside the studio. There is no sound there unless they are making it.

They're very anti-musak and have been known to go around disconnecting the leads that pipe muzak into lifts etc. Ralf is mad into cycling and sometimes cycled up to a hundred kilometres a day. He had a serious accident whilst cycling but made a full recovery.

Florian's dad was an architect and designed Cologne airport. Both he and Ralf are classically trained and come from wealthy families. Despite the perception that Kraftwerk are a quartet, it's only ever been Ralf and Florian, the two others being hired hands, even if long-term ones.

There aren't many Kraftwerk books on the market (I know of three) but former percussionist Wolfgang Flur wrote his memoir "I was a robot" a few years ago and it's a terrific read.

Yes, Your Silent Face has a fair bit of Europe Endles in it in that it has a continuous melodic sequence running all the way through it. You can see why its working title was Kraftwerk One.

leather_girl wrote: I don't think they were extremely influenced by them, (otherwise, they might have sounded like a Kraftwerk clone)but I think a lot of bands that used synthesisers that came out in the late 70s throughout the 80s were to some extent influenced by them. Speaking of this thread, though, on this other message board, (not on here; some other site), some idiot preteen who didn't know what she was talking about said that Depeche Mode's new album sounded Kraftwerk-ish. I told her, "WTF?".

Take another listen to John the Revelator.

Have to add something here, I remember reading an interview with Steven a few years ago - I think it was in Q when London re-released the back catalogue. He talked about Power, Corruption and Lies and said that Your Silent Face was Bernard, "doing his Kraftwerk record". He also mentioned the subtances being consumed at the time and Bernard wearing a lab coat in the studio and hitting people across the knuckles with a ruler! Can't imagine Ralf and Florian doing that, but I've now got an image in my head of them trying to look through the windows of New Order's studio to find out the mystery of the bass drum sound with the robots giving them a bunk up. No substances consumed here either. Also, check out "World" and listen to "The Telephone Call" off "Electric Cafe" - there is a definite influence.

Not fair Al - the truly talented ones left in the late 80's after 16 years with the band. That's hardly 'hired hands'

It is true that Ralf prefers to refer to them as hired percussionists/drummers in a bid to downplay their role over the years. I do think Wolfgang and Karl were more than that but wouldn't ever state that they were the truly talented ones. You can, after all, see who wrote what if you read the sleeves. Was Emil Schult one of the truly talented ones too? Now also uninvolved in the band.

G'day mate!

The hired hands reference was alluded to in Flur's book and also in interviews that Bartos gave after he'd left. Despite the fact that both of them had been at the very heart of what Kraftwerk had been about from Autobahn onwards and yet they were treated badly after they left.

Ralf especially gave them the impression that they were expendible and that Kraftwerk were essentially Florian and himself and always had been. It's a disgraceful way to behave and disloyal in the extreme.

I don't think for a second that Gillian is thought of in any similar way. I think they've collectively got the highest respect for her and what she helped them achieve. She had to stand down because of her and Steve's daughter, not through any disillusionment and she could always return (although I think that unlikely now).

Chemical wrote: Ralf is mad into cycling and sometimes cycled up to a hundred kilometres a day. He had a serious accident whilst cycling but made a full recovery.

I read from somewhere that Hütter went into a coma after that accident and when he woke up his first words were: "Where is my bicycle?"

I don't think they've ever used certain substances to the same extent as NO but Ralf and Florian are apparently both big-time coffee addicts too.

There is something at the heart of Neon Lights that is similar in spirit to Your Silent Face.

And i'd just like to add that this is a great book..

Chemical wrote: Kraftwerk are full of contradictions and that's one of the reasons why I find them fascinating.

Andy McCluskey remembers going to Liverpool (Anglican?) Cathedral to see them in 1975, for what for him was a truly Damascene experience. He said all around him were long-haired bearded hippies sitting cross-legged on the floor when four blokes dressed in smart suits with short hair came on and two blokes appeared to be playing tea trays with knitting needles!

When they played Detroit and Chicago on their 1991 Mix world tour, the audiences were nearly totally black and paid respect by throwing dollar bills onto the stage.

They used to have a dislike for performing and even had this idea that they could stay inside Kling Klang and beam live gigs to thousands of cinemas worldwide instead. They've also said they'd like to send their robots out to do the gigs instead of them so they could sit and watch 'themselves' perform!

By the way does anyone think that the cover for Krafty is reminiscent of the reissue artwork for Autobahn? Just a thought.

Kraftwerk are totally autonomous: they have been with EMI for over thirty years, making them the longest still productive band with the company. Even EMI have no idea of how to reach them on a daily basis: Kling Klang - their studio - doesn't have a phone or even an address apparently. Bernard and Johnny Marr got to know Karl Bartos (former percussionist) and were given a time to call him on his mobile which was precise to the minute. Ralf and Florian insist on mobiles being switched off inside the studio. There is no sound there unless they are making it.

They're very anti-musak and have been known to go around disconnecting the leads that pipe muzak into lifts etc. Ralf is mad into cycling and sometimes cycled up to a hundred kilometres a day. He had a serious accident whilst cycling but made a full recovery.

Florian's dad was an architect and designed Cologne airport. Both he and Ralf are classically trained and come from wealthy families. Despite the perception that Kraftwerk are a quartet, it's only ever been Ralf and Florian, the two others being hired hands, even if long-term ones.

There aren't many Kraftwerk books on the market (I know of three) but former percussionist Wolfgang Flur wrote his memoir "I was a robot" a few years ago and it's a terrific read.

How do you know all this?

Interesting.

It could be that they underestimated just how much Bartos put into Kraftwerk. He co-wrote several tracks on Raise The Pressure remember and not just the drums either, I take it.

How do I know this stuff? Many years of hearing and reading about them I suppose! Been into them since about 78...which is a long time!

Johnny wrote: There is something at the heart of Neon Lights that is similar in spirit to Your Silent Face.

And i'd just like to add that this is a great book..

Maybe the 2nd Edition had a major rewrite, but the first one which I read was pretty poor in my opinion - too many plugs for his solo stuff and too much of his own fanmail I thought and he spends a lot of time saying how shut out he and Karl Bartos were. Something from Ralf and Florian might fill out the missing years though..?

Kraftwerk have obviously been a major influence on New Order over the years...

Whilst we're on the topic of the German techno legends... has anyone noticed that Coldplay's new song has a blatant Kraftwerk rip off on it?? The chorus and the guitar riff sound IDENTICAL to the keyboard riff on 'Computer Love'

DShamen wrote: Kraftwerk have obviously been a major influence on New Order over the years...

Whilst we're on the topic of the German techno legends... has anyone noticed that Coldplay's new song has a blatant Kraftwerk rip off on it?? The chorus and the guitar riff sound IDENTICAL to the keyboard riff on 'Computer Love'

Its listed in the credits on the cd "X5 contains elements of the song Computer Love by Kraftwerk"...

I expect those millionaires in Coldplay are paying Kraftwerk a few quid for it. Are they listing them as co-writers on that song (Talk) or is the note on the sleeve legally all they need to do? I kno that Mr Paltrow and at least one other member are huge Kraftwerk fans (check some of their t-shirts recently, Radio-Activity apparent). It's weird because Coldplay are nothing like Kraftwerk musically.

I remember being in a music store just after X & Y was released - to the usual brown-nosing "most fantabulous record ever made" bollocks that accompanies any album by any band the NME thinks are worthy of their - and our - attention - and it was like being struck by a thunderbolt as Ralf's brilliantly crafted Computer Love melody come out of the speakers...played on a guitar along with an identikit Coldplay-by-numbers beat. I think I just shook my head sadly, thinking "Oh there goes another great riff. Another generation who'll think Coldplay wrote the tune..."

I know Mr Paltrow and his anonymous mates were having real bother writing and recording the album but did they really need to resort to ripping off a classic song to get some badly needed inspiration? Unlike Kraftwerk themselves, the delay on the album actually affected the company's share price apparently so maybe time was tight and inspiration spent...

Bambaataa was sued when Robie ripped off the melody to Trans-Europe Express for Planet Rock and rightly so. It would seem Ralf & Florian are a bit more easy-going these days!

I wonder how Paltrow would feel if someone pinched one of his bits for a song...

Chemical wrote:

I wonder how Paltrow would feel if someone pinched one of his bits for a song...

This is of course assuming anyone would want to nick one of his bits. Imagine having to write "Nicked sample off Coldplay, who nicked it off*insert band here* who are far cooler."