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I started listening to Kraftwerk around 1978 and loved the weird sounds. I've always felt that some of the JD drum and synth sounds were very much influenced by Kraftwerk (and still are) - I know that NO/JD have been quoted as saying that they admired the German band, but to what extent do you think that holds true now?
There are tales of Ralph and Flurian visiting the NO studios to find out how the BM bass drum was recorded - but how much Kraftwerk do you hear in JD/NO?
I think basically it has been to an extent. Definitely admired them, and perhaps just being admirable of them was the catalyst of them embracing electronic music so much - but they verged off away from what Kraftwerk's direction and took what they admired and applied their own lack of know how and swath of inspirtaion into making it their own.
I like to put on a comparison test sometimes of how different they sound with albums of the same period - like electric cafe and then following it with brotherhood. You can hear nuances of the sound, but overall they aren't very majorly influenced by their direction.
Hugely. They can't get thru an NO interview without mention of them.
NO interviews generally consist of the following subject matter:
Ian Curtis' death, Hacienda, Blue Monday, Questions on their longevity, Drugs, World in Motion/John Barnes/Keith Allen (on a 4-yearly cycle), Kraftwerk.
The only KW song I liked was The Model, then Jarvo bullied me into going to see em by buying me two tickets to the shows in Brixton in March 04.
Since then I've listened to loads of Kraftwerk and you can clearly tell they played a big influence with the Order. As has already been mentioned above, Kraftwerk do get quite a few mentions and right enough.
There was an interview with Hooky on telly a year or two back when he says whenever he's in America people come up to him and say New Order invented Electronic music. He says to them "Yes we did" while pissing himself and then saying to camera "It was fookin Kraftwerk weren't it!"
There's a definite krautrock influence in both JD and NO; I know that at least Ian listened to Kraftwerk, also to Popol Vuh and maybe some other krautrock bands too. The krautrock influence is at its most obvious in Hannett's production experiments, also in the doomy keyboard work (on UP, Closer and Movement at least) and in the incredibly precise, machine-like drumming by Steve; I don't know if he actually listened to something like Neu! or Can or wanted to become another Jaki Liebzeit but at least he had his own touch in whatever he played.
The influence of Kraftwerk (Autobahn and beyond) is the most noticeable one though, obviously especially in something like "Your Silent Face". But even if the sequenced bits of that track could have easily appeared on a Kraftwerk record, it still sounds different in many other ways.
Hannett of the Apes wrote: Blue Monday is Kraftwerk meets Ennio Morricone meets Planet Rock.
Planet Rock already IS Kraftwerk. Drumbeat from 'Numbers' vs Melody from 'Trans-Europe Express'.
I'm surprised Miss Chapman hasn't come down her mountain to speak up on this :)
i'm funny about kraftwerk, there's maybe a dozen tracks of theirs I could listen too over and over forever, and others I am not too fussed on....oddly enough including "the model".
It's a documented fact Ian used to drum Kraftwerk into JD at rehearsals. And Blue Monday's CONCEPT, if not's it's reality was VERY Kraftwerk. i never did get the KW1 thing with YSF...there are several other tracks that sound more KW that that......then againn I've never heard a raw demo of it...has anyone? Much of NO's electronic work is far more punk than anything else....the gate trigger thing they use(temptaion EGG etc) is just "lash it up and it'll fuckin rock", no pissing about.
correct me if i am wrong by all means.....but KW would rather boil in oil than be seen in public with a yamaha RXnn?
Fogface wrote: There's a definite krautrock influence in both JD and NO; I know that at least Ian listened to Kraftwerk, also to Popol Vuh and maybe some other krautrock bands too. The krautrock influence is at its most obvious in Hannett's production experiments, also in the doomy keyboard work (on UP, Closer and Movement at least) and in the incredibly precise, machine-like drumming by Steve; I don't know if he actually listened to something like Neu! or Can or wanted to become another Jaki Liebzeit but at least he had his own touch in whatever he played.
The influence of Kraftwerk (Autobahn and beyond) is the most noticeable one though, obviously especially in something like "Your Silent Face". But even if the sequenced bits of that track could have easily appeared on a Kraftwerk record, it still sounds different in many other ways.
I do remember Steve mentioning a couple of Can albums in the History In Cuttings collection and also mentioning Jaki Liebzeit and John Bonham in a interview done about the time Low-life was due for release(it also mentioned upgrading the DMX/Polysequencer/Prophet 5 combo to the Voyetras, QX1 sequencers and RX11 drum machines and the idiosyncrasies of those beasties).
Sher[gold]GOLD[/gold] Six wrote: QX1 sequencers and RX11 drum machines and the idiosyncrasies of those beasties).
you mean a Yamaha badge right?
To a certain extent is my vote.
Songs like YSF, BM EGG, Thieves Like Us amd TPK are really influenced. Plus, Barney also used Karl Bartos in quite a few songs with Electronic in the mid 90's.
They also talk of Sylvester quite a lot and Patrick Cowley - anyone heard any of their stuff?
Kraftwerk's 'The Models' album is corking but I was really disappointed with 'Trans Europe Express'. Anyone recommend any of their others?
my fave track is actually a modernish one
Expo 2000
not just cos it's lovely, but it truly is sonic perfection...such a good track for shaking down a soundsystem.
*Influenced by* doesn't mean *sounds like*. Everyone's influenced by everything they hear, even if they hate it and end up making something that sounds the absolute opposite. But anyway... Kraftwerk are clearly a sizeable positive influence on New Order.
I've often wondered what other krautrock JD listened to. Steve's drumming is very like Klaus Dinger and especially Jaki L at times. For other Factory bands I'd say that Can were definitely big favourites of ACR and Section 25. The Knife Slits Water bassline is a direct rip-off of a Can track (Aspectacle IIRC), and SXXV’s Key Of Dreams *is* Can, both in the editing-down of hours of jams approach and also the sound itself.
Outoforder wrote: you only have to listen to "your silient face" new orders, tribute to Kraftwerk.
Which, basically, sounds f'all like any Kraftwerk track I can think of! 
Al Jarvis wrote:
Outoforder wrote: you only have to listen to "your silient face" new orders, tribute to Kraftwerk.
Which, basically, sounds f'all like any Kraftwerk track I can think of!
Yeah, that's what i said, but as I also pointed out.....I never heard a raw 4-track demo or anything..... lord only knows what the original track sounded like.
Al Jarvis wrote:
Outoforder wrote: you only have to listen to "your silient face" new orders, tribute to Kraftwerk.
Which, basically, sounds f'all like any Kraftwerk track I can think of!
To my ears YSF does sound a bit like Neon Lights. Krafty on the other hand sounds nothing like Kraftwerk.
Steve Campbell wrote: my fave track is actually a modernish one
Expo 2000
not just cos it's lovely, but it truly is sonic perfection...such a good track for shaking down a soundsystem.
Detroit - Germany - Were so electro.
I still cant work out what the link is with detroit. I remember hearing that the live version of expo (or Planet Of Visions) was a reworking of a remix by Underground Resistance. Planet Of Visions is fantastic though, & I agree, "the model" is by far and away my least favourite KW song.
I'm sure they did influence NO - but not as much as they did OMD - who are back together.
Fogface wrote: T
The influence of Kraftwerk (Autobahn and beyond) is the most noticeable one though, obviously especially in something like "Your Silent Face". But even if the sequenced bits of that track could have easily appeared on a Kraftwerk record, it still sounds different in many other ways.
I always thought YSF sounded pretty close to Franz Schubert on Trans Europe Express. The story was that the sequencers started playing by themselves on the Kraftwerk track in the style of Schubert, hence the name... The last good thing those guys did was the remix of Radioactivity but that was back in 1991 believe it or not!
Guilty Partner wrote: To a certain extent is my vote.
Songs like YSF, BM EGG, Thieves Like Us amd TPK are really influenced. Plus, Barney also used Karl Bartos in quite a few songs with Electronic in the mid 90's.
They also talk of Sylvester quite a lot and Patrick Cowley - anyone heard any of their stuff?
Kraftwerk's 'The Models' album is corking but I was really disappointed with 'Trans Europe Express'. Anyone recommend any of their others?
Computer World is good to my ears, used to love Computer Love which is now Coldplay's Talk. TEE came out in 1977 and like all their stuff, was 'ahead of its time' - I think the percussion on TEE and Metal on Metal is fab. A good snapshot of their stuff is The Mix, well worth a listen. Karl Bartos' Communication solo cd has a couple of good moments and is indistinguishable from Kraftwerk's stuff.
Clockwork C wrote:
Steve Campbell wrote: my fave track is actually a modernish one
Expo 2000
not just cos it's lovely, but it truly is sonic perfection...such a good track for shaking down a soundsystem.
Detroit - Germany - Were so electro.
I still cant work out what the link is with detroit. I remember hearing that the live version of expo (or Planet Of Visions) was a reworking of a remix by Underground Resistance. Planet Of Visions is fantastic though, & I agree, "the model" is by far and away my least favourite KW song.
I'm sure they did influence NO - but not as much as they did OMD - who are back together.
OMD back together??? Wow that's the first I heard about it! Is it the same line up?
Apparently, Andy McClusky is very good friends with Kraftwerk's Karl and Wolfgang and has worked with Wolfgang Flur on occasion.
I always found Kraftwerk to be a great band to listen to when my mind has been ahem... altered slightly 
King of Nothing wrote:
To my ears YSF does sound a bit like Neon Lights. Krafty on the other hand sounds nothing like Kraftwerk.
That was my thought exactly. Of all the tracks they've done, how is Krafty the one that reminded them of Kraftwerk?
again....you're talking about the track as WE hear it...not the "here's an idea I had" version. I can hear KW in Krafty...FFS the drums are pure ancient electro.
For me, Neon Lights is one of the most achingly beautiful songs in the pop canon. If any Kraftwerk song influenced YSF, it's surely this one
I put a Kraftwerk tune on at a NYE party this year, cant remember the track, I'm sure it said it was done in '74 on the label. I only noticed it when it stopped, very bland. Still, it must have been good in its time, defo pioneering.
Actually all this stuff about New Order influencing, inventing etc I dont really go for. Apart from maybe '82 to '84 the fookin Bee Gees were probably more influential than NO.
Right, I'm fookin leggin in now......
I don't think they were extremely influenced by them, (otherwise, they might have sounded like a Kraftwerk clone)but I think a lot of bands that used synthesisers that came out in the late 70s throughout the 80s were to some extent influenced by them. Speaking of this thread, though, on this other message board, (not on here; some other site), some idiot preteen who didn't know what she was talking about said that Depeche Mode's new album sounded Kraftwerk-ish. I told her, "WTF?".
Hi Chris mate!
Happy new year to you and your good lady. Give me a shout and we'll go for drinkies.
Ah, the perennial Kraftwerk question. The Dusseldorf genuises are at the very heart of what New Order have always done, along with The Velvets, The Pistols etc. I'd say NO have a less...forensic approach to their music than Kraftwerk do but Kraftwerk's influence on JD/NO and their influence can't be underestimated.
Certainly Joy Division were already taking on board the sounds and approach of Kraftwerk from Trans-Europe Express (77) and The Man Machine (78) and were probably already into them before, Uranium appearing on Radio-Activity (75). There's a long (by modern standards), naked choir sound on there which would've been perfect for sampling some eight years after RA was released.
Bernard used to say in interviews that Ian brought in both TEE and TMM to rehearsals and they'd sit down and listen to the albums all the way through, knocked out by the minimal precision, the clicking beats and the strange, almost cold war feeling of it.
I was watching KW's new live double DVD (their first folks!) the other day and the magnificence of them struck me again after all these years. I've seen them live four times now, including two consecutive nights at Hammy Apollo on their Computer World tour in 81 - man, they blew the place away. Both the Order and Kraftwerk are awesome live but for totally different reasons.
Your Silent Face had the early title of KW1 - Kraftwerk One. Karl Bartos (now ex-member, as he left before The Mix) appeared and co-wrote on Raise The Pressure and Ralf and Florian were amazed at the DMX bass drum on Blue Monday to the extent that they considered recording at the studio where it was made!
Andy McCluskey (of OMD) is a lifelong Kraftwerk obsessionist and sung on Karl Bartos's short-lived Elektrik Musik project album 'Esperanto' on the track Kissing The Machine. The second (four-piece) line-up of OMD are to reform for a series of special gigs when they'll play their 1981 masterpiece album Architecture & Morality in its entirity. They're planning a new album too!
Chris Nash wrote: Apparently, Andy McClusky is very good friends with Kraftwerk's Karl and Wolfgang and has worked with Wolfgang Flur on occasion.
We were standing right near Andy Mcluskey at the Kraftwerk show at Brimingham Hummingbird in 1991.Slighty under the influence i voiced to him my disdain of OMD .I think he was amused actually
