It seems like the world's biggest secret is the "Guitar" New Order

Everyone who isn't a fan automatically classifies New Order as this dance synth pop, Blue Monday/Bizarre Love Triangle band but we all know how much more than that in all facets of their music they are. But people forget that almost every NO album (with the exception of Republic, which sucked) is at least half guitar rock. PCL, Brotherhood, Technique, Low Life not so much though....I mean Way of Life, As It Was When It Was, Broken Promise, Wierdo, Leave Me Alone, Age Of Consent, Ceremony, Regret, Run, Guilty Partner, all of Get Ready and Movement......I mean people just do not know that this band still rocks out.....

J

Well, I agree with you, to a point.

I've got a good friend who likes New Order quite a bit, but, ironically enough, hasn't gotten into the last two albums because they aren't "techno-ie" (!) enough...

It goes both ways, I guess.

Me? I like New Order whatever they choose to do, but I have to admit I like their electronic themed stuff more than their "rock" stuff.

And didn't they admit that they strayed a bit too far from dance music on "Get Ready"?

well yes. i agree, but that is no great revelation. i think most of us fans know that new order have at least two modes, one acoustic, and one electronic, and also a mix of both.

I think straying from dance on Get Ready really betrays that the songwriting wasn't up to snuff, and that Here to Stay was recompense to some degree, which was a good blend of rock and dance.

Bernard's playing on the albums and singles is great. Great riffs that harmonize with the bass and stand on their own.

Alpharius wrote: Well, I agree with you, to a point.

I've got a good friend who likes New Order quite a bit, but, ironically enough, hasn't gotten into the last two albums because they aren't "techno-ie" (!) enough...

It goes both ways, I guess.

Me? I like New Order whatever they choose to do, but I have to admit I like their electronic themed stuff more than their "rock" stuff.

And didn't they admit that they strayed a bit too far from dance music on "Get Ready"?

Looks like it's your first posting here. Welcome to NOOL!

Alpharius wrote: Well, I agree with you, to a point.

I've got a good friend who likes New Order quite a bit, but, ironically enough, hasn't gotten into the last two albums because they aren't "techno-ie" (!) enough...

It goes both ways, I guess.

Me? I like New Order whatever they choose to do, but I have to admit I like their electronic themed stuff more than their "rock" stuff.

And didn't they admit that they strayed a bit too far from dance music on "Get Ready"?

welcome. ah yes I missed that this was your first post. btw quite a few tracks on get ready are eminently danceable.

Welcome ALPHA

Anyone who even tries to classify New Order needs castration, be they male or female!

'nuff said Monkey, they're beyond any classification !

It's kind of odd that while 'middle-of-the-road' is probably one of the most insulting adjectives one can use to describe music and not what I would call NO in a million years, it occurs to me that partly I love NO precisely because they are a bit rock, bit dance, bit pop, without being purely any of those things.

Rock snobs are boring homophobic guitar wankers more into virtuosity than feeling, people who only like pop don't really like music, and hard core dance music while fine for dancing to is crap for listening to, seems to be churned out by computers by the yard and usually seems to consist of an endless intro with no actual song. NO manage to avoid all of those traps.

I was a rock snob and NO transformed me. (Sometimes I think they get a little out of hand, but usually that's only when they've been Robied.) I'm pretty dismissive of new 'post-punk/dance-punk/indie' guitar bands these days, and when I need a guitar fix that's heavier than NO, there's always Les Bains Douches.

I'm not a big fan of New Order's guitar-based material, with the exception of some of the tracks on Technique and the latest album. I'm a dance nut unfortunately And I think Republic is class.

The fact of the matter is that New Order's legenday status owes more than a small part to the fact that they were influenced by Italo disco, Kraftwerk, and New York electro, which elevated the band into something unique.

Without this electronic dimension, I doubt they would have been as popular as they have been. I don't think they would have been just another Factory indie-guitar band, as they would always have been just another Factory indie-guitar band who used to be Joy Division, but its worth thinking about.

Al Jarvis wrote: Whereas the likes of BLT failed to even chart when the band were arguably at the peak of their powers.

It's always amazed me that "Bizarre Love Triangle" only got into the Top 30 in England, while here in Australia it got to Number 4.

I think they do well at both genres. I'm not really a rock fan because I think rock music in general is too macho, (and I hate overly macho men) but I love New Order's more rockier songs, I like Joy Division, and Monaco were pretty decent too.

oldmonkey wrote: Anyone who even tries to classify New Order needs castration, be they male or female!

I agree. People shouldn't classify things and people that much...

since the late 80s ...in the US New Order has always had sort of a Depeche Mode Jr. image which i think was reinforced by marketing them to the same audience as Depcehe Mode and Pet Shop Boys to hopefully sell more product.

i think most fans who know the bands work from Joy Division thru to Technique know the band is more than a synth pop group... thou Bernard's skills as a guitarist live are probably always been suspect

pumped full of drugs wrote: since the late 80s ...in the US New Order has always had sort of a Depeche Mode Jr. image which i think was reinforced by marketing them to the same audience as Depcehe Mode and Pet Shop Boys to hopefully sell more product.

i think most fans who know the bands work from Joy Division thru to Technique know the band is more than a synth pop group... thou Bernard's skills as a guitarist live are probably always been suspect

Suspect sometimes. Not always. Taras is a good example of precise clanging and picking. Even Glastonbury '87 has its moments (the intro to Temptation, and then he just goes down hill throughout the song, and then he rejuvenates somewhere mid-concert).

pumped full of drugs wrote: since the late 80s ...in the US New Order has always had sort of a Depeche Mode Jr. image which i think was reinforced by marketing them to the same audience as Depcehe Mode and Pet Shop Boys to hopefully sell more product.

i think most fans who know the bands work from Joy Division thru to Technique know the band is more than a synth pop group... thou Bernard's skills as a guitarist live are probably always been suspect

I don't think they market them over there similarly to Depeche Mode... In the end, who cares? We all know that they do some rock-ish stuff, and that they also do some more dancier stuff too. End of story.

I've never been much of a dancer and have virtually nothing in my record collection that you could hang a "dance" label on, but I've always loved the dance element in New Order - Technique is a cracking album and Republic is very under-rated.

I've always found you can mosh along to Fine Time or Temptation just as much as you can to Age of Consent or Ceremony or Sunrise!

Maybe that's the secret?!!:)

oldmonkey wrote: Anyone who even tries to classify New Order needs castration, be they male or female!

Positively fuckin sigworthy oh primordial primate.

pumped full of drugs wrote: since the late 80s ...in the US New Order has always had sort of a Depeche Mode Jr. image which i think was reinforced by marketing them to the same audience as Depcehe Mode and Pet Shop Boys to hopefully sell more product.

i think most fans who know the bands work from Joy Division thru to Technique know the band is more than a synth pop group... thou Bernard's skills as a guitarist live are probably always been suspect

Hey!

First, thanks for all of the "welcome messages"! When I saw this thread had a bunch of posts in it, I didn't imagine that some would be of the "hello" variety!

Now...

I agree with PFUD on this one! New Order hasn't, for the most part, been "marketed" (ugh!) correctly in the US. At least, not so that they could really take off. They broke in when Alternative music was just that (alternative AND listenable). And they were, unfortunately, lumped in with some rather lame (and yes, some not so lame) synth bands. Either people can't get past it, or they can.

But, they're brilliant, as most of us, obviously, already know...

Overall I agree that in the U.S., NO have been stuck with a bit of a Depeche Mode Jr label, though there are some sad souls here that only know NO from Regret. Hard to believe that it's really the only big NO hit in the US. Goes to show that the US charts suck. NO's key to success is their ability to blend elements of guitar rock, techno, and dance, thereby appealing to a wider audience and also making them tougher to get tired of. I'm a fan of all of their incarnations, though as a dance fan at heart, I have to say that Republic and Technique both kick ass!

I'd have to concur with the Depeche Mode Jr. image as well, which I never understood as the two spawned from two very different movements. I think one of the first times I heard of New Order was them being referred to as, "Depeche Mode, but not gay". I've also seen them lumped together with The Cure, particularly on allmusic, which isn't quite true, but makes more sense than lumping them with Depeche Mode.