http://www.depero.it/bibl-ita2.html
Funny thing discussed on the french forum.
I knew Saville inspired himself out of other artists' work, but THAT MUCH? 
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Origin of the movement sleeve
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When discussing some of the JD/NO sleeves in the April 2005 Mojo, Saville said:
Movement happened in exactly the same way as Closer. Rob brought them round and asked, 'What are you into?' I said, Italian Futurism. I showed them a book, they put post-it notes in it and left. They'd marked a particular poster, so I said OK, something like this? Rob said, "No, not something like it. That.' We don't have time to mess around. I was compromised with Movement, so I wanted to put: 'Designed by Peter Saville, after Fortunato Depero'. [Then] Rob said, 'Those Futurists, they got mixed up with fascism, didn't they? We've had enough of that with Joy Division, take it off.' But the whole point was that it is a Futurist poster. They called the record Movement and Futurism as an art form was focused around speed and movement. In the early 20th century, the world was speeding up and it was a conjoined art and political movement.
[magenta]cozmonite61[/magenta] wrote: Looks like plagiarism, Spotty.
No it doesn't! There's a "after a poster by Fortunato Depero" credit on Movement's sleeve, you know...
Monsieur Round & Round wrote:
[magenta]cozmonite61[/magenta] wrote: Looks like plagiarism, Spotty.
No it doesn't! There's a "after a poster by Fortunato Depero" credit on Movement's sleeve, you know...
Well SPOTTED
Isn’t plagiarism presenting someone else’s work as your own, original, work?
PS admits his influences and the sources of his "inspiration" haven’t exactly been kept secret - the exhibition of his work actually had many of the source pieces and materials on display!
Monsieur Round & Round wrote:
[magenta]cozmonite61[/magenta] wrote: Looks like plagiarism, Spotty.
No it doesn't! There's a "after a poster by Fortunato Depero" credit on Movement's sleeve, you know...
Absolutly 
Flying Teapot wrote: Reminds me of a Tesco Carrier Bag
Neat idea for the next album sleeve...
Snorri xxx
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/672/no7jw.th.png" class="max-w-full" alt="" loading="lazy" />
Snorrimon wrote: http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/672/no7jw.th.png" class="max-w-full" alt="" loading="lazy" />
"Buy New Order...Where every little helps"
OK, I went too far on my definition on "plagiarism". I guess it would be fair to say that Peter Saville is like Andy Warhol, if you think about the Campbell Soup Can.
I've spotted the Saville Spelling Mistake: It should be N.E.I.L. T.E.N.N.A.N.T.
Do I win £40?
monty wrote:
Snorrimon wrote: http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/672/no7jw.th.png" class="max-w-full" alt="" loading="lazy" />
Where every little counts. 
Snorrimon wrote: http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/672/no7jw.th.png" class="max-w-full" alt="" loading="lazy" />
I like it and it seems MINTY MINT!
Rocket Mick wrote:
Snorrimon wrote: http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/672/no7jw.th.png" class="max-w-full" alt="" loading="lazy" />
I like it and it seems MINTY MINT!
Double clubcard points with every copy as well...
Snorri xxx
It would appear that LTM (Les Temps Moderne) have also got a forthcoming release with the same cover based on the original:
Snorrimon wrote: http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/672/no7jw.th.png" class="max-w-full" alt="" loading="lazy" />
Love it!!
Snorrimon wrote: http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/672/no7jw.th.png" class="max-w-full" alt="" loading="lazy" />
Top design! Someone tell Peter Saville. (Depeche Mode's next should presumably be based on Lidl or Costcutter?)
My goodness it's not stopped there!!! It's on a t-shirt design on this very site! They've not even attempted to alter it. Shameful!
OK so I am biased for obvious reasons, but i thought i should stick up for Peter on this one, because if you turn to page 69 of his book "Designed By Peter Saville", you will see the movement cover, with an inset picture of the Futurismo journal cover immediately below it. He is quite clear about the basis of this cover design, as is the case with Fac 1 and the Jan Tschichold reference. There are other examples, like the Ceremony cover, Unknown Pleasures, etc, which also draw quite clearly from other source material, and with each of them, that is the whole point! By doing that you feel like you recognise the image in some way, and it takes on even more meaning, although by choosing such obscure examples it will be more obvious to some than others. I think you need to look at the entire spectrum of Saville's work over the last 30 years to really appreciate what he is about, and really understand where he is coming from. After walking round his show at the design museum i finally began to realise just how far his understanding of visual communication goes, because like fine art, it is only when you really begin to look into it, that you realise there is so much more to it than meets the eye. As for the line between inspiration, and plagiarism, well like everything in the design world, that is down to individual interpretation or opinion.
Anyway that was a bit heavy, so I'm going for a pint.
[pink]Missy Jem[/pink] wrote: My goodness it's not stopped there!!! It's on a t-shirt design on this very site! They've not even attempted to alter it. Shameful!
Well, that was the point ;)
We have asked for permission, still waiting for a few answers on that one.
Maybe I should convince Bill to do one for us 
, I don't think we can afford him, but if it's any like his Unknown Pleasures one, that was pretty cool.
I'm up for having a crack at a t-shirt for you guys, although i'm pretty busy at the moment, but i'll see if i can get some ideas together (I still need to have a think about the community 2 cover!). As for affording me, well there are some jobs you do just for the love of it.
By referencing an older work that his own audience might not have seen, the designer is making the older work, and by extension the wider body of work, available to the new audience. What's wrong with that? I've bought loads of books based on references in other artists work. If anything the 'theft' of referencing will result in increased interest in the source artist - hardly a bad thing.
Saville has always been clear and unashamed of his inspiration - to accuse him or his kind of theft is missing the point.
That bloody Holding guy though - what's that all about? He stole two of Saville's most famous designs, changed them a bit and sold them right back to him!
It seems to me that graphic design exists in the void between art and engineering. When I am working (as an Engineer) I hardly ever start anything from scratch. I look around and see what other people have done first - select the best from the other designs I can find and hopefully add my own improvements to come up with something that works the best for in my application.
This approach gives me the advantage of learning from the sucesses of others, and leaves a lot more time for going to the pub!
[black]Diamond[/black] wrote: By referencing an older work that his own audience might not have seen, the designer is making the older work, and by extension the wider body of work, available to the new audience. What's wrong with that? I've bought loads of books based on references in other artists work. If anything the 'theft' of referencing will result in increased interest in the source artist - hardly a bad thing.
No - it's not a bad thing at all. This is obviously the same argument as using a sample to create a song, like anything on DJ Shadow's works, or Moby's lifting of old blues records to create Play. In fact, I think it's really a tribute to the original art piece.
A lovely example of Saville crediting his inspiration can be found on the Run 2 12":
Cover by Peter Savile Associates after Bold!
plus he did alter it. slightly. & i'm not talking about the text.
anyone know why the US had a different colour version though?
