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"Ceremony" is now considered a classic by most but what was the opinion when the single first came out? Were people happy to just have the guys continuing or did some think they were just exploiting Joy Division? Were some disappointed? Was there negative press? Or a warm response?
I would assume that Movement got somewhat of a cool response overall.
It was given the most warm of receptions, I think everyone was absolutely delighted that they managed to pull off something so glowingly perfect and powerful. The media was a mixture of reverence and relief. Movement was a different kettle of fish though!
Yes, it was a resounding sense of relief and joy that Ceremony (and In a Lonely Place) were so good - remember that Still had yet to be released so most of us hadn't ever heard Ceremony before, it was only the 'written by Joy Division' phrase that gave away the origin of these songs. Then 'Procession' came out and this was fantastic too, Movement was a bit underwhelming after the first 2 singles and then Temptation came along and took them off in an altogether different direction.
Well, imagine New Order putting singles on album back then... Movement would have Ceremony, Procession and EGG on it probably, it would have been a total different story.
Couldn't form an opinion of it till 1984 which was when i first heard it.But my opinion then was that it fcuking superb
Not putting singles on albums was all part of the 'alternative' way of doing things that Factory represented. It made getting the singles much more important. In fact, I always felt that NO started becoming a little less special when they started taking singles off Lowlife.
Ceremony when released was VERY hotly aniticipated. You have to remember, in those days, they were marketed as the entire package, cover art, run off grooves, everybody was looking for it for a multitude of reasons. For the most part, Ceremony didn't fail to please. Overall the reviews were good, and fans were very happy with the direction the band were taking. Now Movement on the other hand, was extemely hotly anticipated and though the material itself was well written the very poor mix of the finished product left fans a little disappointed.
What prompted them to re-record it? Simply because Gillian joined?
I was introduced to Ceremony via Substance, and when I got Singles, I was excited to finally hear the original single. However, I noticed the mix is a bit dodgy and the playing was a little more loose. I don't want to incur the wrath of old time fans, but I'm curious to know if anyone else felt the production was little uneven after the perfection of Love Will Tear Us Apart and Closer.
I always loved the production on the first recording of Ceremony.But that'a a topic that's been raked over many many times round here already
Strange how different the perspectives are - to my mind, the Gillian version production is much looser than the original, which I think is very tight, emotional and has way more drama than the re-recorded version on Substance. If I didn't know better, i'd have thought the second version was produced by the band themselves as it very straightfoward and doesn't have the richness of a Hannett job.
if memory serves,one review of the time dared to say that new order had achieved the impossible,they was BETTER than joy division. whilst i would er to agree at the time i was amazed at ceremony,what would it have turned out like with ian on vocals we will never know. as for movement the reviews was split really,some thinking it was a turd(the backlash had to start somewhere)others comparing new order to pink floyd and pointing to the fact that they would become a huge band. how right they where.
How is New Order at all like Pink Floyd though? Except if you wanted to make a parallel between Ian Curtis and Syd Barrett.
I'm surprised "Ceremony" got positive reviews though. I don't hate the song, but I mean it seems to be a sort of holding pattern instead of real progression.
Jamie Fairlie wrote: Not putting singles on albums was all part of the 'alternative' way of doing things that Factory represented. It made getting the singles much more important.
It wasn't just Factory bands - lots of groups did it. The Jam and The Clash are particularly notable examples.
The NME review for Ceremony was a good one, calling it " a brave new beginning" "that acknowledges the past without milking it for the myths with which others ungraciously embroidered it". It got to thirty something in the charts and you often heard it at parties etc.
The live reviews that followed were a real mixture though, they got slated at Blackpool, got called 'elitist zombies' at Bristol Trinity Hall and played "40 minutes of electric soup" at Heaven I remember!
Procession/EGG came out in September 81 and people either loved or hated it and then Movement came out in November, and there was a lot of negativity: " a dry, brittle affair, sometimes spacious, but mostly woefully introverted" and "Unfortunate as it is to say, New Order's Movement sounds like the discarded reams of Joy Division ideas, half baked under a Martin Hannett production that for him seems contradictory to an expected ethic of atmospheric acoustic shocks and reminding one of the poorer songs on the recent "Still" in seeming regimented and repetitive" (John McKenna, gobshite of note).
Ceremony was the real bright light that kept the faith until Temptation came along. Dont think many people appreciated how the production really castrated the songs on Movement until much later. In "An armchair guide to NO etc" by Dave Thompson, Bernard tells Melody Maker 'I absolutely hated Movement, I've hated it since I first heard it. Never played it since. I was so angry with Movement, having to put out a record I didnt like.'
Steve Lea wrote:
In "An armchair guide to NO etc" by Dave Thompson, Bernard tells Melody Maker 'I absolutely hated Movement, I've hated it since I first heard it. Never played it since. I was so angry with Movement, having to put out a record I didnt like.'
And only two years after having to put out a record about which he felt the same (Unknown Pleasures) as well.....
This just shows us how far they had come in terms of confidence that they no longer jumped when Hannett told them to.
redphoenix11 wrote: How is New Order at all like Pink Floyd though? Except if you wanted to make a parallel between Ian Curtis and Syd Barrett.
One would think that's exactly why they picked on pink floyd for the comparison
Twas Wilson who made the comparrison between New Order & Pink Floyd, he told Dave Savage (then Sounds writer) that New Order would be bigger than Pink Floyd after Syd disappeared.
Gotta say this has been one of the best threads of late, it's good to hear some of the *ahem* older members give us their memories on the start of the band.
I was only 5 in 1980!!! ;)
I was 10 and only just becoming aware of the music scene...
The first groups I got into were ABBA and The Police, which may be a bit sad; but then again this reflects my taste for the disco / rock sides of NO as well.
Yes. I can't remember anything but great reviews for Ceremony. I only clearly remember Dave McCullough's review in Sounds for Movement. IIRC, He gave it 3 stars out of 5 and pretty much admitted that he didn't know what to make of it. I don't remember who reviewed it for the NME - no doubt someone will have a scan of it somewhere. Was it Morley? I've repeated my thoughts on Movement several times on here and written of it elsewhere. Suffice to say, it's one of the best 5 records ever made, by far New Order's best, and an examplar of how great music should be made - risky, difficult, confusing, avoiding the obvious moves... That it baffles the band itself is yet more evidence of it's stature.
BTW - Tim, many many thanks for the Retford Porterhouse CD. GREAT stuff!
I don't remember any of the reviews when it came out but I do remember the anticpation surrounding it and I must say I thought (and still do) that they had created 2 wonderful songs and pretty much knew from that point that the band would continue making great music. I never did like the 12" version though and for me the difference in production between those two is the same as the difference between the Peel sessions and the tracks that ended up on Movement. It was as if an edginess had been filtered out.
Apologies if these are already elsewhere on the site...here are a couple of reviews of Movement from the old scrapbook. Don't remember the Dave McC one so maybe somebody could post that? And not so much of the 'older' ta very much. I got called 50 and a bad parent on BCD t'other day so I came here for a bit of p and q!
Sweeting's review has some credible observations. Sounds like he wants the group to succeed but can't comprehend why they've shortchanged themselves. Obviously historical circumstances explain Movement, but it does sound a bit regressive when compared to the lively early singles. (By the way, I've always been a fan of Movement, but more so because of the songs that appear in 316 and on the Peel Sessions than for the production on the actual album.)
Took me about six weeks after the UK release to get ahold of a copy, but the aforementioned praise in the UK was matched in a couple of US zines that I was also reading at the time. The anticipation from the reviews I'd read prior to hearing was in no way diminished once I'd heard the single.
I love Movement, but to divert slightly.....
...where was that picture of Bernard with Shergold taken? I've never seen a New Order picture of him playing it, perhaps it was from one of the earliest gigs?
Interesting to read in "Torn Apart" that Joy Division were due to record for 'Celebration' in the week leading up to Ian's death, but a technicians strike at Granada TV meant it never happened. The songs to have been performed were Ceremony and Heart And Soul.
Had it gone ahead, I guess that may have totally altered the way the song was subsequently received.
Old Blue wrote: Interesting to read in "Torn Apart" that Joy Division were due to record for 'Celebration' in the week leading up to Ian's death, but a technicians strike at Granada TV meant it never happened. The songs to have been performed were Ceremony and Heart And Soul.
Had it gone ahead, I guess that may have totally altered the way the song was subsequently received.
That strike was the same reason LWTUA never appeared on TOTP as well from what I remember. What's that book like then Clive?
johnny james wrote: I love Movement, but to divert slightly.....
...where was that picture of Bernard with Shergold taken? I've never seen a New Order picture of him playing it, perhaps it was from one of the earliest gigs?
Heavily suspect it was from the JD days - he bought the Gibson during the early days of New Order, with Gillian using the Masquerader.
Gillian's was another Masquerader (slightly different model and not customized like his), apparently he traded in his Shergold for the ES335 at the Rhythm House in Stockport. Admittedly it won't have covered the value of a new 335!
