24 replies · 578 views
New Order goes prog. I haven't heard the 20 minute version actually, but based on the version on Low Life, it does sound like NO's attempt to do progressive style music, sort of in the vein of a Genesis or Yes instrumental, but still having the distinctiveness of NO. I would imagine the 20 minute version is even more so progressive. What CD is this long version available on so I can go check it out?
J
i guess it is arty, maybe more like Philip Glass, but don't get obsessed with giving things stereotypical labels. not as lame as Genesis's pretentious pseudo classical musicianship. drags in it's 20 minutes thou
full length was on the limited extra 5th CD from Retro box set, a bonus extra
not as good as Soundtrack or Sabres Slow N Low Mix of Regret, as far as epics go, but not terrible either. the vers. on Low Life is plenty long enough and could even be trimmed down a bit to be a perfect little interlude.
The arrangement is probably ripped off from Morricone instead, there was a thread about it here somewhere. And the 20 minute version is just more of the same and not very prog; Yes or Genesis would have added other sections with different musical content to it in that timeframe.
Funny that Genesis was mentioned here; I think they're somewhat similar to New Order in being very technically limited as a band and yet at their peak (1971-74) they constantly released memorable tracks with their idiosyncratic playing styles all over the place. They were just kids and amateurs when compared to other prog bands but somehow are the best group from that era to me. The same with the Order. And to add to the comparisons:
Both bands often blurred the lines of what instruments are supposed to traditionally do (NO: guitar/bass, Genesis: guitar/keyboards).
In both bands the drummer was the most professional player, until Collins stopped kicking ass and started sucking ass by stepping in front of the mic.
(Of course I remember Steve's comments about "singing drummers" and "the full sound" of Genesis vs. "the empty sound" of JD, I'm just winding you up a bit!)
And to the sceptics: like with all music, there's good prog and bad prog. How about giving some thorough listens to the good one before dismissing a genre altogether, no? :p
The twenty minute version is just dull, basically the Low-Life version four times over... The 'edit' is plenty long enough... Reminds me a bit of JD and earlier NO, in terms of the 'atmosphere' and especially the cymbals, adding the sort of 'background noise' found on a lot of JD tracks and things like Cries & Whispers, IALP, etc. As for NO being prog, I think things like Temptation and TPK fit much better with that label, in terms of the different sections, length and use of different instruments/sounds... Used to have a bit of a prog thing going on, with hindsight much of it is unlistenable, but there are still bands and tracks that stand out as being good examples of how, despite all the excesses and ridiculousness associated with, say, Rick Wakeman, prog could stand the test of time... A lot of King Crimson, especially Starless & Bible Black and Red, some of Rush's late 70s and early 80s output, bits and pieces of Floyd still get played from time to time when the mood takes me...
Snorri xxx
Fookin' classic post! "The 20 min Elegia sounds Prog Rock...I haven't heard it, but the six min version makes me think the 20 min will....."
Do you suddenly get these compelling urges to post on here even when you have nothing to say?
With respect, MLANH (My Life Ain't No Holiday), your life here ain't gonna become a holiday while you keep setting yourself up to be shot down with shite like this! Comparing NO to Genesis and Yes is something only an acid head could do, surely? It's well documented that Morricone and Kraftwerk are the big influences on their synth compositions.
For the record, the long Elegia is just the same boring six minute thing round a few more times. Not their finest quarter hour.....
If you wanna hear New Order doing "prog" I would suggest Video/prime586 and that bonkers version of "When I'm With You" from Milan in 1982....love it to bits that tune, that single performance has probably influenced me more in the way I play live (OK, used to )than anything else NO have done. It's kinda like Kraftwerk meets the BBC Radiophonic Workshop....or The Orb thrown back in time.
Anyone who thinks all prog is Gabriel and his ilk wittering about fuck knows what, needs to do the following.....
While NO, being spawned of punk, are hardly likely to be huge prog heads, I came across a truly bizarre resonance once night. M mate is a HUGE soft machine fan (rather fond of them myself, but this guy is OUT there). He had found this dodgy as piss live tape from the late 60's of them supporting someone or other.....and I swear all you could hear was a whopping bassdrum, a snare like a floor tom with a snarebed (ie like Steve's) and overloud, seriously melodic, bass, it really was VERY JD/NO-esque. Sadly he fried his hard drive, and being not the most togher sort, has never managed to re-acquire the gig. Or else I would post a snippet. I have some live shit here, I will trawl through it one night to see if there are any examples within. Likelyhood that Barney, Steve and Hooky were into the Softs, 0.00000001%
oldmonkey wrote: Fookin' classic post! "The 20 min Elegia sounds Prog Rock...I haven't heard it, but the six min version makes me think the 20 min will....."
Do you suddenly get these compelling urges to post on here even when you have nothing to say?
With respect, MLANH (My Life Ain't No Holiday), your life here ain't gonna become a holiday while you keep setting yourself up to be shot down with shite like this! Comparing NO to Genesis and Yes is something only an acid head could do, surely? It's well documented that Morricone and Kraftwerk are the big influences on their synth compositions.
For the record, the long Elegia is just the same boring six minute thing round a few more times. Not their finest quarter hour.....
This is Tim`s way of saying hello! 
Its so long that the guitar ends up sounding way out of tune for the mess of the last 5 minutes. The edited version on Low-Life is superb however.
Why are people even remotely suggesting the genre "progressive rock" about any New Order song?
Doctor? wrote: If you wanna hear New Order doing "prog" I would suggest Video/prime586 and that bonkers version of "When I'm With You" from Milan in 1982....
Yeah, and then one could add the whole avantgarde tradition under the label of "prog", including krautrock, minimalism and the whole electronic composer tradition, including the academic professor nerds. I was mainly talking about symphonic prog wankery like messing around with different time signatures and the whole quiet/loud dynamics. But it hasn't been cool to like that ever since people swallowed down the stuff that Lester Bangs and the like wrote. And I like that wankery if it's done well, most of the time I think it's not though (never could stomach most of Rush's output, etc).
Anyone who thinks all prog is Gabriel and his ilk wittering about fuck knows what, needs to do the following.....
Gabriel's topics were pretty much ordinary British themes (just like The Kinks), although made surreal. There was also the whole influence of writers like T.S. Eliot, you know, the guy who also inspired that twat Curtis.
(sidenote: I prefer the Genesis lyrics that Gabriel wrote, not the ones that other members of the band wrote. The lyrics of Dancing With The Moonlit Knight rule, the ones on Firth Of Fifth or Watcher Of The Skies don't.)
Although I will admit that 99,9% of what Jon Anderson has written is nonsense that takes itself far too seriously. But that's an accusation you can't throw at Gabriel-era Genesis (Gabriel always made sure the band had its tongue in cheek most of the time), or for that matter at the band that's the main topic of this ole site.
- smoke yer tits off and stick "flying teapot" by Gong on.
Always preferred Camembert Electrique myself, just because of the sheer awesomeness of You Can't Kill Me.
- turn your stereo to what you normally think of as moderately deafening, stick on Lark's toungue in Aspic pt1 by King Crimson, and try really REALLY hard not to shite yourself (in fairness it does get a bit wanky-prog a coupla minutes in)
A classic it is, the two-punch of Talking Drum and LTIA part 2 at the end is amazing as well.
- Slip "The Elephant Song" by Giles Giles and Fripp, on at a party and just watch as 95% of your guests look mega annoyed at not hearing kylie anymore, and the other 5%, who are LISTENING, piss themselves. (OK, I think GG+F is pushing the definition of prog a little)
I'll add a few here myself:
Play the 'battle section' of Yes' The Gates Of Delirium and listen to the piling keyboard and guitar noises as they threaten to rip the speakers apart. Or the whole intro section to Close To The Edge which is as headbangable as Ceremony. Both do descend into "the hippy dippy shit" but those sections are long enough for one to think of them as separate songs. And sure, lots of those synth sounds are dated but what vintage synths aren't? Surely not the ones on '80s New Order albums?
Play Genesis's Harold The Barrel, where they cram an average 10+ minute epic of theirs into THREE minutes. Not to mention Gabriel's twisted humour about a guy who chopped off his toes and served them with tea.
King Crimson in general circa Larks'/SABB/Red, and at the beginning of the '80s. Many tracks were as much punk and new wave as prog, but I think we all agree on that one.
(True, they have their shite moments too but not all "symphonic prog" is worthless and made by fairies, or by pixies like Daevid Allen and his gang)
Likelyhood that Barney, Steve and Hooky were into the Softs, 0.00000001%
Steve was into Captain Beefheart and also had his "juvenile acid period". Who knows?
While I was partly joking with the whole NO/Genesis comparison, we did get some discussion out of it. 
leather_girl wrote: Why are people even remotely suggesting the genre "progressive rock" about any New Order song?
Fuck off. NO are considered to have broke new grounds in music. Surely that's progressive????
Always heard Elegia as a JD number, personally. Better live.
Mr disco 99 wrote: I've kinda wondered... Would GY!BE be considered prog rock?
I'd say Post-Rock more than anything.
Doctor? wrote:
- smoke yer tits off and stick "flying teapot" by Gong on.
Or go to the Gong Unconvention in Amsterdam at the beginning of November (like me)! 
Oh, and the 20 minute version of Elegia was included on the Retro Bonus CD as a bonus for fans, because us fans were asking for it at the time... 
I am afraid that october's Viking missions and my sister's wedding on the 1st of Nov, have kinda scuppered this for me.
Hoping you and Digi have a ball, and that digi sticks his MD recorder into his huge solar powerer pot head pixie hat ;)
This one time I saw a Genesis video on VH1 Classic. Actually, that was like every other time I've watched We Are The 80s.
Anyone watch RATT's Behind The Music tonight?
JV wrote: This one time I saw a Genesis video on VH1 Classic. Actually, that was like every other time I've watched We Are The 80s.
Anyone watch RATT's Behind The Music tonight?
If Phil fuckface was anywhere but behind a kit, it wasn't real genesis
"Elegia", or even "Peter Saville Show Soundtrack", sounds much more as mid-70's Tangerine Dream. A little bit spacey and ambient... There were krautrock influences in Joy Division and New Order (Kraftwerk, Can, Neu!). Bernard Sumner put Can's "Mushroom" on "Back to Mine" compilation.
The 20minute version is also on the 'By Design' DVD.
I don't mind it. I like how it builds from new age ethereal to out of tune guitar cacaphony.
Hook's bass riff gets a little tired after 20minutes though.
New Order cannot be prog because;
Digital Mike - The voice of reason 
Don't forget this one as well, Mike...
Snorri xxx
