Brotherhood is SOOO much better than Technique

mrgreen71 wrote: Technique is less "timeless" than Brotherhood. You can tell by just looking at recent NO setlists. Yes, there isn't any Technique track on it. And they're still playing BLT, which was on Brotherhood.

Not a good measuring call. BLT is for me the best dancy song they've ever done. Doesnt make the rest of the album a classic compared to Technique either.

As for playing Technique live, I think Gillian had a big input in making the record, which might explain why they dont play any of the songs live any more. Despite our protestations. If they did play something from Technique again, it would invariably take the roof off.

Tim wrote:

Blunderer wrote:

Brotherhood is full of standout tracks.

Such as?

BLT and the undersung Angel Dust.

Yeah, TECHNIQUE is such a better "album" from start to finish than Brotherhood......That's why it's scattered with dance track next to rock track, as opposed to Brotherhood which flows through a natural progression from acoustic to electric to electronic......And for all the audiophiles out there, who cares if the sound quality of Technique is better. You're comparing a mid 80s album with an album that was almost 90s. Of course the 89 album will be of better sound quality. It doesn't detract from the greatness of the songs....

And bi the way, I think "Round And Round" should have been a huge hit. It's so catchy! I like it just as much as BLT, and I'm shocked that the rest of the world didn't.

J

I think Technique is brilliantly sequenced.

Shug wrote:

MLANH- "My Life Ain't No Holiday" wrote: Yeah, TECHNIQUE is such a better "album" from start to finish than Brotherhood......That's why it's scattered with dance track next to rock track.... J

Dance track next to Rock track

Name me one rock track on Technique. Go on, I dare you

you aint seriously suggesting that "loveless" is a dance track are ya shug?

His Holiness, The Pope wrote:

Tim wrote:

Blunderer wrote:

Brotherhood is full of standout tracks.

Such as?

BLT and the undersung Angel Dust.

That's about as "full" as the waiting list for MLANH's fanclub!

Shug wrote:

MLANH- "My Life Ain't No Holiday" wrote: Yeah, TECHNIQUE is such a better "album" from start to finish than Brotherhood......That's why it's scattered with dance track next to rock track.... J

Dance track next to Rock track

Name me one rock track on Technique. Go on, I dare you

All The Way?

MLANH- "My Life Ain't No Holiday" wrote: Yeah, TECHNIQUE is such a better "album" from start to finish than Brotherhood......That's why it's scattered with dance track next to rock track, as opposed to Brotherhood which flows through a natural progression from acoustic to electric to electronic......And for all the audiophiles out there, who cares if the sound quality of Technique is better. You're comparing a mid 80s album with an album that was almost 90s. Of course the 89 album will be of better sound quality. It doesn't detract from the greatness of the songs....

And bi the way, I think "Round And Round" should have been a huge hit. It's so catchy! I like it just as much as BLT, and I'm shocked that the rest of the world didn't.

J

Brotherhood was recorded August 86. Technique was recorded pretty much throughout 88. Somewhat shortens your mid-80s/almost 90s argument!

Round and Round is horribly dated. The rest of the world was right.

Burt Reynolds wrote:

mrgreen71 wrote: Technique is less "timeless" than Brotherhood. You can tell by just looking at recent NO setlists. Yes, there isn't any Technique track on it. And they're still playing BLT, which was on Brotherhood.

As for playing Technique live, I think Gillian had a big input in making the record, which might explain why they dont play any of the songs live any more. Despite our protestations. If they did play something from Technique again, it would invariably take the roof off.

They don't play the Technique songs because they haven't sequenced them, and because they would need to change the song keys to enable Bernard to sing them these days. From a source who is apparently as frustrated about it as we are!

Tim wrote:

His Holiness, The Pope wrote:

Tim wrote:

Blunderer wrote:

Brotherhood is full of standout tracks.

Such as?

BLT and the undersung Angel Dust.

That's about as "full" as the waiting list for MLANH's fanclub!

Paradise - one of the early NO rabble rousing choruses As It is and When It Was - a bit spoilt by the acoustic guitar but a classic live track Broken Promises - rock n roll BLT - an alltime pop classic All Day Long - big songs, small dicks

And I even like some of the others.

Technique?

Errr.....Vanishing Point. And that's about it.

El Jarvo wrote:

Tim wrote: Brotherhood was recorded August 86. Technique was recorded pretty much throughout 88. Somewhat shortens your mid-80s/almost 90s argument!

Don't think it was recorded in August, Tim? The tracklisting was out by then and it was released last week in September. Surely no-one (Fac especially) could have such a turnaround?

Based purely on the fact that Paradise and Way of Life weren't finished in mid-July 86 if the G-Mex renditions are anything to go by, and only Every Little Counts was new in the August 86 gig in Denmark yet they all surfaced in the September gigs, I'm pretty sure it was recorded between the end of July and the first week of September. Unusual for them in that half the album was written in the studio rather than taken out live first. Remarkably short turnaround for Factory, but it would explain the half-finished sound some of it has got!

MLANH- "My Life Ain't No Holiday" wrote: Yeah, TECHNIQUE is such a better "album" from start to finish than Brotherhood......That's why it's scattered with dance track next to rock track, as opposed to Brotherhood which flows through a natural progression from acoustic to electric to electronic......And for all the audiophiles out there, who cares if the sound quality of Technique is better. You're comparing a mid 80s album with an album that was almost 90s. Of course the 89 album will be of better sound quality. It doesn't detract from the greatness of the songs....

And bi the way, I think "Round And Round" should have been a huge hit. It's so catchy! I like it just as much as BLT, and I'm shocked that the rest of the world didn't.

J

Exactly which tracks are acoustic, which are electric and which are electronic? I dont buy into this first half is acoustic and 2nd half is electronic. Its complete tosh!!!

And I dont buy into the ethos that mid 80's albums were all bad quality. Listen to Genesis, Fleetwood Mac. Michael Jackson, Pet Shop Boys or Dire Straits (there again dont!) and their albums are all well produced and polished (irrespective of what year they were recorded).

To me Brotherhood sounds like it was recorded in a week with little variation in instrument sounds. Some of the distorted guitar parts are awful and I find the album quite distburbing sonically at times. Whereas Technique is gorgeous synth driven pop and a joy to behold. If 1989 was the summer of love then 1986 was the winter of hate.

Brotherhood is still a good album though and I enjoy parts of it. But can anyone honestly say they have heard a worsely recorded album??

ally wrote:

NO Regret wrote: Listen to Genesis, Fleetwood Mac. Michael Jackson .... or Dire Straits

No ta!

I think I'd spontaneously combust if I was forced to listen to that little lot

Fair enough but youre missing my point.

ally wrote:

Blunderer wrote: Paradise - one of the early NO rabble rousing choruses As It is and When It Was - a bit spoilt by the acoustic guitar but a classic live track Broken Promises - rock n roll BLT - an alltime pop classic All Day Long - big songs, small dicks

And I even like some of the others.

It's all opinion I know but Paradise is fcuking shit, it's just not a good song either instrumentally or lyrically. They tried to breath new life into it for the 3rd John Peel Session in '98 and it didn't work then either. The Robert Racic remix is listenable however.

I'll say it again, I think Brotherhood should've been worked on slightly longer by the band. If the songs had been more fleshed out and a seperate producer brought in to rescue the production then it quite easily could've been a record to equal Technique; the potential was there but it was never lived up to.

Technique?

Errr.....Vanishing Point. And that's about it.

No special mention for All The Way, Run or Dream Attack? Surely they've got that "classic" New Order sound plus some fine lyrics from Barney? Since you get so misty eyed over that whole Aceeed House era I definitely would have had you down as a fan of Mr Disco!?

Paradise is one of the few highlights on Brotherhood. Admitedly it could have been better produced. As It Was When It Was could have been great rather than average.

NO Regret wrote:

ally wrote:

Blunderer wrote: Paradise - one of the early NO rabble rousing choruses As It is and When It Was - a bit spoilt by the acoustic guitar but a classic live track Broken Promises - rock n roll BLT - an alltime pop classic All Day Long - big songs, small dicks

And I even like some of the others.

It's all opinion I know but Paradise is fcuking shit, it's just not a good song either instrumentally or lyrically. They tried to breath new life into it for the 3rd John Peel Session in '98 and it didn't work then either. The Robert Racic remix is listenable however.

I'll say it again, I think Brotherhood should've been worked on slightly longer by the band. If the songs had been more fleshed out and a seperate producer brought in to rescue the production then it quite easily could've been a record to equal Technique; the potential was there but it was never lived up to.

Technique?

Errr.....Vanishing Point. And that's about it.

No special mention for All The Way, Run or Dream Attack? Surely they've got that "classic" New Order sound plus some fine lyrics from Barney? Since you get so misty eyed over that whole Aceeed House era I definitely would have had you down as a fan of Mr Disco!?

Paradise is one of the few highlights on Brotherhood. Admitedly it could have been better produced. As It Was When It Was could have been great rather than average.

Probably says more about me, Ally, but I can only remember Run from the four tracks you mention. Not bad, as lots of Technique is, but not brilliant.

All this dewy eyed nostalgia over a fundamentally poor record has driven me to this…….

The oldmonkey Brotherhood review, as of today, which replaces any previous rants I may have had about the product.

Paradise – grrrrr. Annoying bassline, an octave too high. Trite words, besides that it would be passable as a filler if they were short of tracks.

Weirdo – not quite as bad as some of the stuff off this album, but still a pretty poor effort by their standards. Hated it when they started doing it live in 85, the record did nothing to improve this opinion.

As It Is When It Was – should have been a lot better, the acoustic opening does it no favours at all. Fundamentally decent song though, not a classic by any means, but better than 5 of the offerings on this one.

Broken Promise – should have been good, the song is basically a good one, but the production is shocking, they’ve hollowed out a rock beast in much the same way that Hannett screwed half of Unknown Pleasures with less emptiness.

Way Of Life – this is their idea of a joke, surely? It’s a parody on some of their earlier stuff, with the bassline not only being a hybrid of other songs but even changing into them at the end.

Bizarre Love Triangle – the only one they really got right, it was leaps and bounds ahead of the song that had developed live, and is the album’s genuine classic.

All Day Long – beautiful musically, ruined by crass lyrics. Would have been a great instrumental. Production-wise it’s not too bad.

Angel Dust – interesting idea, some way different to anything they’d done before, different percussion, heavy metal guitar solo, backwards bits, innovative and deserved to be presented with better songs.

Every Little Counts – the beginning of the end. How the people who wrote stuff like Temptation, LWTUA, Atmosphere and Perfect Kiss managed to churn this one out is beyond me. I can only assume that the quality control department were on strike this day. A blot on their CV.

Tim wrote: All this dewy eyed nostalgia over a fundamentally poor record has driven me to this…….

The oldmonkey Brotherhood review, as of today, which replaces any previous rants I may have had about the product.

Paradise – grrrrr. Annoying bassline, an octave too high. Trite words, besides that it would be passable as a filler if they were short of tracks.

Weirdo – not quite as bad as some of the stuff off this album, but still a pretty poor effort by their standards. Hated it when they started doing it live in 85, the record did nothing to improve this opinion.

As It Is When It Was – should have been a lot better, the acoustic opening does it no favours at all. Fundamentally decent song though, not a classic by any means, but better than 5 of the offerings on this one.

Broken Promise – should have been good, the song is basically a good one, but the production is shocking, they’ve hollowed out a rock beast in much the same way that Hannett screwed half of Unknown Pleasures with less emptiness.

Way Of Life – this is their idea of a joke, surely? It’s a parody on some of their earlier stuff, with the bassline not only being a hybrid of other songs but even changing into them at the end.

Bizarre Love Triangle – the only one they really got right, it was leaps and bounds ahead of the song that had developed live, and is the album’s genuine classic.

All Day Long – beautiful musically, ruined by crass lyrics. Would have been a great instrumental. Production-wise it’s not too bad.

Angel Dust – interesting idea, some way different to anything they’d done before, different percussion, heavy metal guitar solo, backwards bits, innovative and deserved to be presented with better songs.

Every Little Counts – the beginning of the end. How the people who wrote stuff like Temptation, LWTUA, Atmosphere and Perfect Kiss managed to churn this one out is beyond me. I can only assume that the quality control department were on strike this day. A blot on their CV.

An excellent summary there. Can you comment on SOTN too? I Know alot of folk hate it but its my 2nd favourtite off the album.

Personally I think the acoustic intro to AIWWIW is the best part of the song. I just wish it had continued as an acoustic song with a stronger chorus. In fact I wish NO had done more acoustic guitar tracks. Loveless and Run Wild are great in my book.

Tim wrote: {in best Simon Cowell voice.....}

Mr.Baron. You haven't got a clue. That much is obvious. I think you're trying too hard to make an impression. Don't. All you are doing is setting yourself up for derision, and there will be plenty of that round here if you come up with crass statements like "Brotherhood is better than Technique". Let's face facts. Brotherhood is a poorly-produced record that contains a few good songs, a couple of decent ones and a couple of half-ideas. Technique was the first album that sounded polished from start to finish, that sounded how they actually wanted it to.

'Nuff said

Burt Reynolds wrote:

You don't say trolling again

Trolling???

In my real life all the New Order fans I know, of which there are quite a few, mid 30's mancs who have been fans for over 20 years, Blunderer represents the majority view.

Sometimes you can substitute 'New Order' for 'Westlife' on this site. Take away the social aspect of gigs these days and they are plain wank.

AIIWIW is a classic NO track imo, but like oldmonkey says, the guitar intro just doesn't fit into the song. And I like the live versions more than the album version.

NO Regret wrote:

An excellent summary there. Can you comment on SOTN too? I Know alot of folk hate it but its my 2nd favourtite off the album.

Personally I think the acoustic intro to AIWWIW is the best part of the song. I just wish it had continued as an acoustic song with a stronger chorus. In fact I wish NO had done more acoustic guitar tracks. Loveless and Run Wild are great in my book.

State of the Nation wasn't on the album......unless you are American, and as far as I am concerned the UK release is the definitive one, their being a UK band and all that.

Anyway, if it had less pathetic lyrics it wouldn't be too bad, but once again the antennae in his brain let him down. Tune-wise it's ok. One of the songs that I wouldn't mind hearing again actually, even though they won't play it again. Re: Order do SOTN surprisingly well actually.

Fac That wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

You don't say trolling again

Trolling???

In my real life all the New Order fans I know, of which there are quite a few, mid 30's mancs who have been fans for over 20 years, Blunderer represents the majority view.

Sometimes you can substitute 'New Order' for 'Westlife' on this site. Take away the social aspect of gigs these days and they are plain wank.

are you Blunder? sorry no he doesn't represent the majority view. each to their own. music is subjective.

blunderer's problem is that he thinks that he needs to convince us of the validity of his views.

sorry no. I haven't agreed with any of his points yet.

the more he tries to convince us of his views the more he come across as a dick.

he should just accept that most of us think differently to him

but imo technique is a brilliant album. brotherhood has glimpse of brilliantness, but is badly executed. those songs sound so much better live.

when i saw blundrer agree with mr no holiday, i just thought yeh right of course he'll try and flame this issue.

he prolly doesn't even actually think that brotherhood is better that technique.