Brotherhood is SOOO much better than Technique

El Jarvo wrote:

MLANH- "My Life Ain't No Holiday" wrote: For the guy who said that WAY OF LIFE sounds like everything they've done before, tell me exactly what older New Order song it sounds like?? What bassline is it ripping off?

Fcuk me, that's easy. Way of Life opening bars equals Love Will Tear Us Apart opening bars.

After which it's basically then shit.

And is the same notes as Age of Consent in various places with a slightly different rhythm. Also goes back to LWTUA at the end.

Must admit I seem to dig out Brotherhood more these days than Technique. I think it's because, while Technique is polished, Brotherhood is more a collection of demos. Makes it a bit more interesting. I can't really compare the two, as they were approached in differing ways. Some highlights:

Paradise has a great drum and synth opening. The 'I want you..' bit always grated.

Weirdo is just a rushed song, and I love it.

AISAWIW's acoustic opening knocked me sideways when I first heard it, as it was the last thing I expected to hear in a NO song. Gives it a folk flavour.

The arrangement of ELC gives the album a nice close. Everything has been said about the lyrics.

Plus it has the best album cover EVER. IMHO.

MLANH- "My Life Ain't No Holiday" wrote: Not that I want to continue this thread any more, but I have some more things to say.....

First off, I don't try to make an impression. I speak my mind. Half of you guys are British people who seem to automatically disagree with everything I say simply because I said it- just admit it! I'm gonna say this, and take this with a grain of salt.....British people are incredible at making music, but I've noticed that many aren't exactly the most sociable when it comes to everyday conversation. I'm half joking when I say this, but a lot of British people act like they have their heads up their asses and their dialogue is always so full of negativity and profanity! With that said, I still love British people. Even the wankers on here who consistently ridicule me.......

Second of all, EVERY LITTLE COUNTS is GENIUS! That's right folks....I think it's brilliant. The lyrics aren't exactly Bob Dylan quality, but listen to the interaction between Hook's bass and the synths when the instrumental part starts. And how about the ending with that awesome drum beat! It's feel good music. It's not a statement song, but it's a very good one. A hell of a lot better than RUN.

Also, here's my issue with RUN. With all due respect to Barney, write your own fucking guitar solo! Don't jack John Denver's! That is LAME!

As far as ALL THE WAY goes, which bi the way I think is still a good song, with all due respect to Peter Hook, write your own fucking bassline! Don't blatently steal the bassline to "Just Like Heaven"! Not cool!

For the guy who said that WAY OF LIFE sounds like everything they've done before, tell me exactly what older New Order song it sounds like?? What bassline is it ripping off? Way Of Life always brings a smile to my face when I hear it. It's wonderful catchy pop, and a lot better than DREAM ATTACK! When I listen to WAY OF LIFE, I'm in excstacy (no pun intended). When I listen to DREAM ATTACK, I think, "decent, but where's Peter?".

I like Technique. I think it's mediocre by New Order's standards. I still think it's a good album which I enjoy listening to. I think Brotherhood is better. I love every song except Paradise. And for the person who asked which songs are acoustic, which songs are electric, and which are electronic? Wierdo and As It Was are acoustic, Broken Promise and Way Of Life are electric (although Wierdo, AIW, and WOL are both, really), and BLT-Every Little Counts is electronic. Paradise is Electric and Electronic. I think Brotherhood is sequenced perfectly. I think Technique isn't. It's awkward when you have a dance song like Round And Round followed by a rock song like Guilty Partner.

Some may prefer Technique. I prefer Brotherhood.

Thank You

J

Im glad you cleared the acoustic, semi-acoustic, electric with acoustic intro, electric, electric with electronic, electronic with acoustic, semi-electonic with electric quandary.

I think you must have a different copy of Brotherhood to me. My ones got this simple song called Every Second Count which is abit of a filler track and doesnt have any drum beat at the end. It ends with lots of keyboard string effects, a needle being dropped on a record sound and then kicks into SOTN.

When I listen to Way of Life I think "wheres Gillian?". Is she making the tea or hiding in the corner.

I dont think Techniques track order is awkward. And Ive never even considered Guilty Partner to be a rock song.

Same far prefer live recordings any mistakes intact. No Hannett. Though Bless. To water things down, clean it or mix past recognition. Lots of loud bass and clean crisp drums. Where they should be. Competing with or just set w/ithin the venue.

mrgreen71 wrote: AIIWIW is a classic NO track imo, but like oldmonkey says, the guitar intro just doesn't fit into the song. And I like the live versions more than the album version.

This general theme has been said.. Brotherhood feels as if it was dulled and suffered on a rushed production line. Technique is genius for its synths work though hollow and at times feels tinny. A different year reflected on Vinyl on CD. Yet Brotherhood excels 'cause it feels more spontaneous. Worked out on stage or in the studio more than just on paper.

Fine Time is sublime. Listen to the downtime guitar that brings up the back layers every so often through the tune and you can't help but realize New Order are a class above. That Brotherhood and Techn. were works and play from the same band, the same three that stomped, slinked and went past loud 'an brash punk to be Joy Division. EDIT oops time and a place..
Both albums are excellent. Apples oranges. Don't see the attraction of Paradise or in parts even Dream Attack. Like the confidence and all that Technique is. Whistle Down the Wind. Fine TimeIf arsed. Listen at 1.25 2.19 at 2.44 through.

i shall conduct the ultimate subjective test today by listening to both albums back to back in the car.

i'm afraid the outcome is already determined.

NOOLigan wrote: i shall conduct the ultimate subjective test today by listening to both albums back to back in the car.

i'm afraid the outcome is already determined.

And not the "objective test"? Please don't spin.

[magenta]shedmonite61[/magenta] wrote:

NOOLigan wrote: i shall conduct the ultimate subjective test today by listening to both albums back to back in the car.

i'm afraid the outcome is already determined.

And not the "objective test"? Please don't spin.

I do hope you knew the difference between objective and subjective when you posted that.

Yeah. Unfortunately, I sound like Bill O'Reilly. I hate his guts.

[magenta]cozmonite61[/magenta] wrote: Yeah. Unfortunately, I sound like Bill O'Reilly. I hate his guys.

Yeah, me too. How do you feel about his guts, though? :D

I meant guts. Sorry for the typo. But I hate his guys too.

i have conducted my test. the results are that most of the Brotherhood songs do not linger long in my mind, whereas those on Technique do.

MLANH- "My Life Ain't No Holiday" wrote: I know some of you love Technique, but let's be real here....MEDIOCRE!!!!! I listened to both albums back to back the past few days, and I get such a happy well being feeling listening to "WEIRDO", "AS IT WAS WHEN IT WAS", "WAY OF LIFE", "BLT", "that song after BLT about child abuse that I for some reason forgot the name of", and "EVERY LITTLE COUNTS"....."ANGEL DUST" and "BP" are also great, although not very cheerful.

Technique on the other hand, comes off as polished and at times, a bit dull......With that said, I LOVE "Fine Time", "Round and Round", and "Vanishing Point" tremendously. Those three songs are incredible. But 3 songs out of 9 ain't gonna cut it! "All the Way" is ok, but it sounds like the Cure. "Guilty Partner" reminds me of Joy Division a little bit, but is kind of dull, and never really takes off. "Love Less" and "Run" kind of stink, "Mr Disco" is nothing special, and "DREAM ATTACK" is decent, but it bugs me that Peter Hook is barely on the song! That song especially feels like it's missing something.

Just my two cents!!!!

J

Definitely different strokes for different folks. Brotherhood has an awful, muddled production quality, in my opinion, and also mostly mediocre songs, in my opinion, for the bands standars whereas Technique, in my view, has only one poor song in total. Interestingly you choose the two singles, and the one, wannabe single off Technique as the only quality songs. I identify the songs you chose as best, as by and large the worst, other than Vanishing point which has interesting qualities.

Really it's a fantastic album in my eyes. All the Way is brilliant and grows on you with time, loveless was a favorite immediately, Run is easily in my top 10 list of fav new order songs, Mr. Disco is flawless execution of a dance tune stuffed to the gills with beauty, vanishing point follows with epic verses (and would have been even better if they'd used the instrumental version as the final version to match the lyrics), and the coda, in dream attack. It's a spectacular album whose only flaws in my mind, were Fine Time (kind of by the numbers dance music), Round and Round (a similar complaint, but at least Round and Round had some amazing remixes, some interesting lyrics and a nice overall sound) and Guilty Partner, that took a very very long time for me to warm up too.

When it comes to Brotherhood, it's new order, so I'll always care about it, but if I had to go without New Order tunes of their prime era (in my view '82-'89), I don't think its a coincidence that I'd make do without this period of music. Some of their worst ever singles (Shell Shock, State of the Nation), and an album that sounded mostly like a collection of pieces of New Order filler, with a few exceptions. It's new order doing New order, and while it's still better than 95% of the albums out there at that time if not more, its nowhere near as good as Technique, Low-Life, or PCL in my opinion.

Paradise? Dull. Weirdo-I actually like, no one else does, As it is when it was would be perfect if they had used a better drum track, maybe even the bongos that REM used in live renditions of Swan Swan Humingbird and King of Birds from their '86-'87 era, broken promise is okay, all the way is dull, BLT is outrageously good, but the version on the album is the worst of all the versions they ever recorded, All Day Long is epic in magesty but missing something, its halfway to greatness, Angel Dust needed Evil Dust as the instrumental with Angel Dusts lyrics, either way though its just mediocre, and Im one of the few people on the earth who actually does like every little counts.

So when I look at it, I see only really one or two songs that I think are genuinely darn good, and a bunch of average tunes that weren't fully realized. Just my sense of things of course.

Foreign F**kwitt wrote:

Brotherhood is SOOO much better than Technique

IMO, yes. The general sound of Technique is polished indeed. Still it is well done and complete but then again it has never appealed to me as much as Brotherhood. I agree that Brotherhood is less (read: badly) produced but it's exactly what I like about New Order no matter how stupid it may sound. I'm a Movement/Low Life/Brotherhood fan and I get irritated when people slag them off. But I still think that Technique is a very appealing album although it sounds a bit dated at times. Dream Attack and Run are the only songs I ever listen to anymore

Who slags off Low-Life? Don't we all love it? I've always felt the only debate with Low-Life, is whether its #1, or #2 or #3 amongst their albums (usually #1 or #2). I am, however, a card carrying member of the "Movement sucks" contingent. It's an interesting period piece, transition, where you can feel the band moving about blindly trying to find their way to their sound without Ian, but it's not a very good album to me, most of the band, and to most critics at that time. I just cannot for the life of me understand why its loved by some. I don't see it at all. I can see that people who like rough production, might not appreciate the sleek qualities of Technique, I get that argument, even if I don't agree, but I just have never seen why there are devotees of Movement. It's such a disappointment to me, and is an album I tend to lose all the time because I so rarely listen to it, I only seem to listen to it when Im really depressed and really could use another fresh listen to, "here I am/in a house/full of doors/with no exits" sort of Ian-light lyrics that sometimes echo my own frustrations with life.

However, if you can get pleasure out of it, that's really whats important in the final analysis, I just wish I could find what you find in it, as it could then make for another New Order album I could love. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way for me. I just don't hear anything except a band that is lost, and confused, and not up to their full capacity yet when I hear it. Perhaps things would have been better if they'd waited to release their debut till '82, then it probably would have been stronger as by '82 they seemed to be picking up steam and getting what their "sound" really was.

Shug wrote:

MLANH- "My Life Ain't No Holiday" wrote: Yeah, TECHNIQUE is such a better "album" from start to finish than Brotherhood......That's why it's scattered with dance track next to rock track.... J

Dance track next to Rock track

Name me one rock track on Technique. Go on, I dare you

I'd say "All the Way,", and if it counts, really the first half of "Run," is very much a rock track. They've got two guitars and a bass ripping it up after every verse and chorus, and it definitely rocks, till it goes out with that gorgeous melodic outro.

Stephen Smith wrote:

Foreign F**kwitt wrote:

Brotherhood is SOOO much better than Technique

IMO, yes. The general sound of Technique is polished indeed. Still it is well done and complete but then again it has never appealed to me as much as Brotherhood. I agree that Brotherhood is less (read: badly) produced but it's exactly what I like about New Order no matter how stupid it may sound. I'm a Movement/Low Life/Brotherhood fan and I get irritated when people slag them off. But I still think that Technique is a very appealing album although it sounds a bit dated at times. Dream Attack and Run are the only songs I ever listen to anymore

Who slags off Low-Life? Don't we all love it? I've always felt the only debate with Low-Life, is whether its #1, or #2 or #3 amongst their albums (usually #1 or #2). I am, however, a card carrying member of the "Movement sucks" contingent. It's an interesting period piece, transition, where you can feel the band moving about blindly trying to find their way to their sound without Ian, but it's not a very good album to me, most of the band, and to most critics at that time. I just cannot for the life of me understand why its loved by some. I don't see it at all. I can see that people who like rough production, might not appreciate the sleek qualities of Technique, I get that argument, even if I don't agree, but I just have never seen why there are devotees of Movement. It's such a disappointment to me, and is an album I tend to lose all the time because I so rarely listen to it, I only seem to listen to it when Im really depressed and really could use another fresh listen to, "here I am/in a house/full of doors/with no exits" sort of Ian-light lyrics that sometimes echo my own frustrations with life.

However, if you can get pleasure out of it, that's really whats important in the final analysis, I just wish I could find what you find in it, as it could then make for another New Order album I could love. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way for me. I just don't hear anything except a band that is lost, and confused, and not up to their full capacity yet when I hear it. Perhaps things would have been better if they'd waited to release their debut till '82, then it probably would have been stronger as by '82 they seemed to be picking up steam and getting what their "sound" really was.

You know Movement really sort of falls between a rock and a hard place. Joy Division fans slag it off because it's like JD in some ways, but not nearly as perfected as the "formula" was Ian. Ian-lite is a good way to describe it. New Order fans, on the other hand, slag it off because it's not representative of the electronic dance club happy-sad formula that the band would perfect on the subsequent album and on temptation and blue monday. I think that Movement is great for when you are in the mood for it. It's a bit faster and a little poppier than Joy Division, yet it's not poppy enough to fit in with the rest of New Order's catalogue. I still think it's solid, and other than the song Peter Hook sings on it, I think it's a good collection of songs. Keep in mind where the band was in their career at the time. Ian just killed himself. The band before that was known to make dark gothy postpunk which was often depressing, half of the time slow (see the first half of Unknown Pleasures), and instrumentally meloncholic. A band doesn't go from that to "THE VILLAGE" overnight. Movement represents the necessary step to the natural progression that New Order took in developing their music to be what it eventually became.

J

Fcuk off... Community 2 kicks every NO album's butt...

Snorri xxx

Stephen Smith wrote:

Who slags off Low-Life? Don't we all love it?

[black]HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE TAKE EVERY WORD LITERALLY AS AN EXCUSE TO POST CRAP! PAH![/black]

And yes, I meant Movement.

dreams never end beats wftsc in whole!

MLANH- "My Life Ain't No Holiday" wrote: a lot of British people act like they have their heads up their asses and their dialogue is always so full of negativity and profanity! With that said, I still love British people. Even the wankers on here who consistently ridicule me.......

You're not secretly British are you?

Snorri xxx

both good. both different.

nuff said.

waste of time all the studymen's paragraphs on this thread.

Brotherhood is a decent album,in desperate need of re-mastering though!

NO Regret - when Brotherhood was originally released it was without STON, this was on the yankee release and then subesquentUK releases/reissues.

PC&L knocks them both into a cocked hat

Foreign F**kwitt wrote:

Stephen Smith wrote:

Who slags off Low-Life? Don't we all love it?

[black]HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE TAKE EVERY WORD LITERALLY AS AN EXCUSE TO POST CRAP! PAH![/black]

And yes, I meant Movement.

dreams never end beats wftsc in whole!

Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine! :D

The Haçienda must be (re)Built wrote: NO Regret - when Brotherhood was originally released it was without STON, this was on the yankee release and then subesquentUK releases/reissues.

PC&L knocks them both into a cocked hat

Hasn't SOTN always been on Brotherhood? I thought it was always present on the CD version,and only 'disappeared' now due to the fact that vinyl is dead.

steveone wrote:

The Haçienda must be (re)Built wrote: NO Regret - when Brotherhood was originally released it was without STON, this was on the yankee release and then subesquentUK releases/reissues.

PC&L knocks them both into a cocked hat

Hasn't SOTN always been on Brotherhood? I thought it was always present on the CD version,and only 'disappeared' now due to the fact that vinyl is dead.

nope. do the maths. two times 20 minutes. it was only ever on the cd and that is on the re-release cd.

It is on my pirate Brotherhood cd ner ner ner ner

Foreign F**kwitt wrote: It is on my pirate Brotherhood cd ner ner ner ner

yeh it also is on my new one, it just doesn't fit with the album. brotherhood should end with the needle skipping at the end of every little counts.