Brotherhood is SOOO much better than Technique

Blimey! Nooligan, that must be the longest post you've ever written

Tim wrote:

NO Regret wrote:

An excellent summary there. Can you comment on SOTN too? I Know alot of folk hate it but its my 2nd favourtite off the album.

Personally I think the acoustic intro to AIWWIW is the best part of the song. I just wish it had continued as an acoustic song with a stronger chorus. In fact I wish NO had done more acoustic guitar tracks. Loveless and Run Wild are great in my book.

State of the Nation wasn't on the album......unless you are American, and as far as I am concerned the UK release is the definitive one, their being a UK band and all that.

Anyway, if it had less pathetic lyrics it wouldn't be too bad, but once again the antennae in his brain let him down. Tune-wise it's ok. One of the songs that I wouldn't mind hearing again actually, even though they won't play it again. Re: Order do SOTN surprisingly well actually.

I must have bought an import from my local HMV then!

Tim wrote: All this dewy eyed nostalgia over a fundamentally poor record has driven me to this…….

The oldmonkey Brotherhood review, as of today, which replaces any previous rants I may have had about the product.

Paradise – grrrrr. Annoying bassline, an octave too high. Trite words, besides that it would be passable as a filler if they were short of tracks.

Weirdo – not quite as bad as some of the stuff off this album, but still a pretty poor effort by their standards. Hated it when they started doing it live in 85, the record did nothing to improve this opinion.

As It Is When It Was – should have been a lot better, the acoustic opening does it no favours at all. Fundamentally decent song though, not a classic by any means, but better than 5 of the offerings on this one.

Broken Promise – should have been good, the song is basically a good one, but the production is shocking, they’ve hollowed out a rock beast in much the same way that Hannett screwed half of Unknown Pleasures with less emptiness.

Way Of Life – this is their idea of a joke, surely? It’s a parody on some of their earlier stuff, with the bassline not only being a hybrid of other songs but even changing into them at the end.

Bizarre Love Triangle – the only one they really got right, it was leaps and bounds ahead of the song that had developed live, and is the album’s genuine classic.

All Day Long – beautiful musically, ruined by crass lyrics. Would have been a great instrumental. Production-wise it’s not too bad.

Angel Dust – interesting idea, some way different to anything they’d done before, different percussion, heavy metal guitar solo, backwards bits, innovative and deserved to be presented with better songs.

Every Little Counts – the beginning of the end. How the people who wrote stuff like Temptation, LWTUA, Atmosphere and Perfect Kiss managed to churn this one out is beyond me. I can only assume that the quality control department were on strike this day. A blot on their CV.

Tim Castigating New Order for their poor lyrics is a bit daft as their lyrics have always been pretty trite. i cannot think of a single New Order song with genuinely good lyrics. And Every Little Counts is/was a half decent song, certainly more interesting than the majority of pop pap on Technique. It is possibly the only New Order song to illustrate their humour. Wierdo is poor, as is Way of Life, but the rest are all classic New Order.

I would answer you back with a track by track review of Technique except I can't remember most of it. As I said before, Fine Time is OK, Vanishing Point is excellent but the rest are a bit New Order-by-numbers.

Anyway, your "blot on their CV" comment has given me an idea for a more interesting thread than this......

Blunderer wrote:

Anyway, your "blot on their CV" comment has given me an idea for a more interesting thread than this......

We've done Jetstream to death already!

Foreign F**kwitt wrote: Blimey! Nooligan, that must be the longest post you've ever written

i have written longer posts. must be time for shed now.

NOOLigan wrote:

are you Blunder? sorry no he doesn't represent the majority view. each to their own. music is subjective.

I said he represents the majority view in my REAL life.

Obviously not on here. What with Mrs Disco chuckin her knickers at Barney and stuff, he aint bleedin Tom Jones

NOOLigan wrote:

Fac That wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

You don't say trolling again

Trolling???

In my real life all the New Order fans I know, of which there are quite a few, mid 30's mancs who have been fans for over 20 years, Blunderer represents the majority view.

Sometimes you can substitute 'New Order' for 'Westlife' on this site. Take away the social aspect of gigs these days and they are plain wank.

are you Blunder? sorry no he doesn't represent the majority view. each to their own. music is subjective.

blunderer's problem is that he thinks that he needs to convince us of the validity of his views.

sorry no. I haven't agreed with any of his points yet.

the more he tries to convince us of his views the more he come across as a dick.

he should just accept that most of us think differently to him

but imo technique is a brilliant album. brotherhood has glimpse pf brilliantness, but is badly executed. those songs sound so much better live.

when i saw blundrer agree with mr no holiday, i just thought yeh right of course he'll try and flame this issue.

he prolly doesn't even actually think that brotherhood is better that technique.

No need to get all hot under the collar because someone agrees with me, NOOligan.

As I have stated on several occasions I have my views and I have aired them on here.

I know you love New Order very much indeed, but someone thinking they should retire is not worth getting wound up about. Stay cool.

By the way, I do believe Brotherhood is a better album than Technique.

Fac That wrote:

NOOLigan wrote:

are you Blunder? sorry no he doesn't represent the majority view. each to their own. music is subjective.

I said he represents the majority view in my REAL life.

Obviously not on here. What with Mrs Disco chuckin her knickers at Barney and stuff, he aint bleedin Tom Jones

and you said the majority view.

ok it is obviously pointless in arguing with you lot. I'm just waiting for Hank to chip in as well now.

Blunderer wrote:

NOOLigan wrote:

Fac That wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

You don't say trolling again

Trolling???

In my real life all the New Order fans I know, of which there are quite a few, mid 30's mancs who have been fans for over 20 years, Blunderer represents the majority view.

Sometimes you can substitute 'New Order' for 'Westlife' on this site. Take away the social aspect of gigs these days and they are plain wank.

are you Blunder? sorry no he doesn't represent the majority view. each to their own. music is subjective.

blunderer's problem is that he thinks that he needs to convince us of the validity of his views.

sorry no. I haven't agreed with any of his points yet.

the more he tries to convince us of his views the more he come across as a dick.

he should just accept that most of us think differently to him

but imo technique is a brilliant album. brotherhood has glimpse pf brilliantness, but is badly executed. those songs sound so much better live.

when i saw blundrer agree with mr no holiday, i just thought yeh right of course he'll try and flame this issue.

he prolly doesn't even actually think that brotherhood is better that technique.

No need to get all hot under the collar because someone agrees with me, NOOligan.

As I have stated on several occasions I have my views and I have aired them on here.

I know you love New Order very much indeed, but someone thinking they should retire is not worth getting wound up about. Stay cool.

By the way, I do believe Brotherhood is a better album than Technique.

frankly i have decided not to care about your views anymore.

NOOLigan wrote:

and you said the majority view.

I know I did.

Are you fuckin brain dead????

NOOLigan wrote:

Blunderer wrote:

NOOLigan wrote:

Fac That wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

You don't say trolling again

Trolling???

In my real life all the New Order fans I know, of which there are quite a few, mid 30's mancs who have been fans for over 20 years, Blunderer represents the majority view.

Sometimes you can substitute 'New Order' for 'Westlife' on this site. Take away the social aspect of gigs these days and they are plain wank.

are you Blunder? sorry no he doesn't represent the majority view. each to their own. music is subjective.

blunderer's problem is that he thinks that he needs to convince us of the validity of his views.

sorry no. I haven't agreed with any of his points yet.

the more he tries to convince us of his views the more he come across as a dick.

he should just accept that most of us think differently to him

but imo technique is a brilliant album. brotherhood has glimpse pf brilliantness, but is badly executed. those songs sound so much better live.

when i saw blundrer agree with mr no holiday, i just thought yeh right of course he'll try and flame this issue.

he prolly doesn't even actually think that brotherhood is better that technique.

No need to get all hot under the collar because someone agrees with me, NOOligan.

As I have stated on several occasions I have my views and I have aired them on here.

I know you love New Order very much indeed, but someone thinking they should retire is not worth getting wound up about. Stay cool.

By the way, I do believe Brotherhood is a better album than Technique.

frankly i have decided not to care about your views anymore.

So that's why you chipped in with a bitchy comment when I posted on this thread, spent time writing the above post to Fac That and called me a dick, is it?

Yeah, you really don't care, do you?

Blunderer wrote:

Tim Castigating New Order for their poor lyrics is a bit daft as their lyrics have always been pretty trite. i cannot think of a single New Order song with genuinely good lyrics. And Every Little Counts is/was a half decent song, certainly more interesting than the majority of pop pap on Technique. It is possibly the only New Order song to illustrate their humour.

"Genuinely good" is an interesting one, what's your yardstick? Half of Ian Curtis's stuff was sixth form poetry.....

If ELC is a "half decent song", I have obviously got no idea about anything. Must have missed the "pop pap" on Technique as well, I can't hear anything I would call "pop" on there at all!

For the record, I'm no Technique lover either, but I do at least know what the songs on it sound like.....

Tim wrote:

Blunderer wrote:

Tim Castigating New Order for their poor lyrics is a bit daft as their lyrics have always been pretty trite. i cannot think of a single New Order song with genuinely good lyrics. And Every Little Counts is/was a half decent song, certainly more interesting than the majority of pop pap on Technique. It is possibly the only New Order song to illustrate their humour.

"Genuinely good" is an interesting one, what's your yardstick? Half of Ian Curtis's stuff was sixth form poetry.....

If ELC is a "half decent song", I have obviously got no idea about anything. Must have missed the "pop pap" on Technique as well, I can't hear anything I would call "pop" on there at all!

For the record, I'm no Technique lover either, but I do at least know what the songs on it sound like.....

We'll have to agree to disagree, Tim. Each to their own and all that. I rather like Every Second Counts. For a yardstick? Hmmm. I agree most Joy Division lyrics were a bit sixth form, in fact most popular music has poor lyrics. Suede were a band whose lyrics I enjoyed. The Smiths were excellent at times, too. New Order were always about the music to me.

Each to their own, Ally, my friend, each to their own.

I've got Get Ready and have a copied version of the recent one. I listened a fair bit to Get Ready, well 2 or 3 of the songs anyway. Siren's Call, though, I listened once and couldn't bring myself to listen again. So I do know the tunes you refer to.

ally wrote:

Blunderer wrote: And Every Little Counts is/was a half decent song, certainly more interesting than the majority of pop pap on Technique.

Hilarious!

I always thought ELC was a sloppy Lou Reed rip off with lyrics so bad even Barney couldn't help but piss himself whilst singing them. Unless you use the "it's so shit it's quaintly good" argument that track really doesn't seem to have many redeeming features.

Not one of Hooky's most memorable basslines either, they should've tried harder.

You accuse New Order of being past it and non-groundbreaking these days and then cite a blatant Velvet Underground rip-off as a really good New Order tune? Personally, I'd much rather listen to something like Vicious Streak off Get Ready or Special from Republic as they're proper, fully-formed songs which sound like they had some effort put into them.

But I won't assume you'll have listened to those particular two as the band were no longer cutting edge when they released them; you probably won't have the albums! Ah well...

Vicious Streak even.

ELC is so bad that in fact............its terrible.

ally wrote: You traitor! You're betraying the golden days by listening to anything post-93

:p

Tut tut, Ally The golden days were well over by 93. The last of the golden days was the gig at GMEX at the end of 1988.:D

Tim wrote: Half of Ian Curtis's stuff was sixth form poetry......

Interesting comment coming from you Tim.

have to say I agree.

Fac That wrote:

Tim wrote: Half of Ian Curtis's stuff was sixth form poetry......

Interesting comment coming from you Tim.

have to say I agree.

Why interesting because it comes from me? I don't write sixth-form poetry!

Tim wrote:

Why interesting because it comes from me? I don't write sixth-form poetry!

first bad word I've heard you say (or is that seen you write?) about JOy Division. Thats all.

Believe me, there have been plenty over the years. The production of Unknown Pleasures, the cult of Curtis as martyr, choice of songs that made/got left off albums, the sheer volume of pretentiousness that surrounds fans of the band in many circles.....I could go on, but that would be boring.

Fac That wrote:

NOOLigan wrote:

and you said the majority view.

I know I did.

Are you fuckin brain dead????

that was the point.

i don't agree with you on brotherhood.

Not that I want to continue this thread any more, but I have some more things to say.....

First off, I don't try to make an impression. I speak my mind. Half of you guys are British people who seem to automatically disagree with everything I say simply because I said it- just admit it! I'm gonna say this, and take this with a grain of salt.....British people are incredible at making music, but I've noticed that many aren't exactly the most sociable when it comes to everyday conversation. I'm half joking when I say this, but a lot of British people act like they have their heads up their asses and their dialogue is always so full of negativity and profanity! With that said, I still love British people. Even the wankers on here who consistently ridicule me.......

Second of all, EVERY LITTLE COUNTS is GENIUS! That's right folks....I think it's brilliant. The lyrics aren't exactly Bob Dylan quality, but listen to the interaction between Hook's bass and the synths when the instrumental part starts. And how about the ending with that awesome drum beat! It's feel good music. It's not a statement song, but it's a very good one. A hell of a lot better than RUN.

Also, here's my issue with RUN. With all due respect to Barney, write your own fucking guitar solo! Don't jack John Denver's! That is LAME!

As far as ALL THE WAY goes, which bi the way I think is still a good song, with all due respect to Peter Hook, write your own fucking bassline! Don't blatently steal the bassline to "Just Like Heaven"! Not cool!

For the guy who said that WAY OF LIFE sounds like everything they've done before, tell me exactly what older New Order song it sounds like?? What bassline is it ripping off? Way Of Life always brings a smile to my face when I hear it. It's wonderful catchy pop, and a lot better than DREAM ATTACK! When I listen to WAY OF LIFE, I'm in excstacy (no pun intended). When I listen to DREAM ATTACK, I think, "decent, but where's Peter?".

I like Technique. I think it's mediocre by New Order's standards. I still think it's a good album which I enjoy listening to. I think Brotherhood is better. I love every song except Paradise. And for the person who asked which songs are acoustic, which songs are electric, and which are electronic? Wierdo and As It Was are acoustic, Broken Promise and Way Of Life are electric (although Wierdo, AIW, and WOL are both, really), and BLT-Every Little Counts is electronic. Paradise is Electric and Electronic. I think Brotherhood is sequenced perfectly. I think Technique isn't. It's awkward when you have a dance song like Round And Round followed by a rock song like Guilty Partner.

Some may prefer Technique. I prefer Brotherhood.

Thank You

J

MLANH- "My Life Ain't No Holiday" wrote: First off, I don't try to make an impression. I speak my mind. Half of you guys are British people who seem to automatically disagree with everything I say simply because I said it- just admit it! I'm gonna say this, and take this with a grain of salt.....British people are incredible at making music, but I've noticed that many aren't exactly the most sociable when it comes to everyday conversation. I'm half joking when I say this, but a lot of British people act like they have their heads up their asses and their dialogue is always so full of negativity and profanity! With that said, I still love British people. Even the wankers on here who consistently ridicule me.......

Well you are a bit of a tw@ at times...

ally wrote:

Blunderer wrote: And Every Little Counts is/was a half decent song, certainly more interesting than the majority of pop pap on Technique.

Hilarious!

I always thought ELC was a sloppy Lou Reed rip off with lyrics so bad even Barney couldn't help but piss himself whilst singing them. Unless you use the "it's so shit it's quaintly good" argument that track really doesn't seem to have many redeeming features.

Not one of Hooky's most memorable basslines either, they should've tried harder.

You accuse New Order of being past it and non-groundbreaking these days and then cite a blatant Velvet Underground rip-off as a really good New Order tune? Personally, I'd much rather listen to something like Vicious Streak off Get Ready or Special from Republic as they're proper, fully-formed songs which sound like they had some effort put into them.

But I won't assume you'll have listened to those particular two as the band were no longer cutting edge when they released them; you probably won't have the albums! Ah well...

I would call Every Little Counts a playful Velvet Underground homage... with self-aware silly lyrics. New Order being playful and experimenting, risking embarrassing themselves. I like it. New Order had a lot of ideas, also showed that they had a sense of humour, and they knew that they were not a "normal" mainstream pop band... isn't this why New Order is great?

I'm just happy to have both Brotherhood and Technique, no point in griping years later. I admit that i used to skip tracks 3,4,5 all the time thou on both records

Both are great albums. Can't say which I like better because I adored both of them when I first heard them each. I can say that "Fine Time" still bugs me to this day. Never liked that song music wise. Something about the whole arrangement and the lyrics just bug me. I'm so glad that the rest of Technique didn't finish the way it started. Just my opinion.

I think that both albums are nice, but Technique was a god time for NO and was in a #1 in the UK charts!!!!

:)

MLANH- "My Life Ain't No Holiday" wrote:

Second of all, EVERY LITTLE COUNTS is GENIUS! That's right folks....I think it's brilliant. The lyrics aren't exactly Bob Dylan quality, but listen to the interaction between Hook's bass and the synths when the instrumental part starts. And how about the ending with that awesome drum beat! It's feel good music. It's not a statement song, but it's a very good one. A hell of a lot better than RUN.

Spotnick, how you getting on with the "avoid everything this twat writes, he doesn't know his arse from his elbow" facility that you were thinking of introducing?