The Other Two & You...

New Order dropped? I don't doubt it, honestly.

Not to be harsh, but the record biz is a business (and, like many businesses, run largely by mentally retarded dropouts from rodeo clown college). A bunch of acts were recently dropped by Atlantic over here...I was quite sad to read that Poe was cut from the roster while out on tour, about a week after I saw her. Tori Amos was dropped the same day, along with (I think) Collective Soul? Don't quote me on that last one.

Hey...you've got to make room for [see Here to Stay? Yeah, right]. How else will you have the resources to develop Lil' Bow Wow into tomorrow's Ian Curtis?

Reprise in the States hasn't updated NO's "official" site since before the album was released. You could consider that a clue as well.

The Wall Street Journal ran a really great piece several months back that followed one Irish chick's strange, horrible journey through the record biz. It's not a sob story...just a realistic look at investment and return. I'll e-mail it to anyone who's interested. I also have collected a bunch of links too about the record biz.

Hey, Curve found Hip-O after being dropped, were on Fat Lip for about 10 minutes, have done Web-only releases...keep hope alive.

Just returned from London Records' Web site. Odd that their scrolling list of artists doesn't show New Order, but it does list The Other Two (and Soul Coughing who, though great, don't exist anymore).

Didn't have time to check the list of philistines.

Originally posted by Kimberly Raymond-Jensen Monaco is the coolest! For Your Pleasure is such a great album! When I bought it, I was completely floored at how cool it was!

I didn't know Peter Hook played on a Roxy Music album Kimberly! ;) ;) :D

Originally posted by -I:D- Anything to do with the catastrophic collapse of HTS after one week in the charts? Highly embarrasing for London Recs, a song that debuts at number 15 to drop out of the top 40 in one week i'd say..or is just a jolly old jape to spark a little controversy?? ;)

Well, put it this way -I.D- London Records were probably far from embarrassed - rather overjoyed, as their wish finally came true. Picture the scene: the marketing folks placing bets on how far HTS would drop after its first week. "If it's out of the top 40 in one week, let's press the eject button. If it miraculously somehow - against all the odds - survives a second week inside it, just get the concepts ready for the next New Order "Best of" compilation as a contract filler then we'll press the eject button...."

London Records are probably creaming themselves at the delicious irony of it all: "Here To Stay" - well, judging from the fleeting chart performance, "Dream On" would have been a more apt title....!! Perhaps they set the whole thing up knowing full well that should this record fail the egg would be on New Order's faces....thus rendering the sentiment of that eponymously (and now ironically) titled record completely meaningless.....

They're obviously pleased that HTS didn't go top ten. Aren't they? So they have succeeded haven't they? Now they HAVE the excuse they could possibly hope for to let New Order free from their contract....

What's the next thing that's going to happen? That's it, you guessed - the nail in the coffin that is the NEXT planned "Best Of" compilation - as already revealed by Nic WebM elsewhere. I mean....doesn't that consummate their pointless existence on this most clueless of major labels? The next "Best Of" is just what we need to confirm our worst fears about the relationship London have with New Order - they couldn't give a stuff about their post 90's output - it's their 80s back catalogue that's most lucrative ain't it? So how many more updated versions of "Blue Fucking Monday" and "True Faith" are we going to be able to stomach?

:(

Originally posted by Oh Look! There Goes The Laughing Martian Again!! > Originally posted by -I:D-> > Anything to do with the catastrophic collapse of HTS after one week in the charts? > Highly embarrasing for London Recs, a song that debuts at number 15 to drop out of the top 40 in one week i'd say..> > or is just a jolly old jape to spark a little controversy?? ;)

Well, put it this way -I.D- London Records were probably far from embarrassed - rather overjoyed, as their wish finally came true. Picture the scene: the marketing folks placing bets on how far HTS would drop after its first week. "If it's out of the top 40 in one week, let's press the eject button. If it miraculously somehow - against all the odds - survives a second week inside it, just get the concepts ready for the next New Order "Best of" compilation as a contract filler then we'll press the eject button...."

London Records are probably creaming themselves at the delicious irony of it all: "Here To Stay" - well, judging from the fleeting chart performance, "Dream On" would have been a more apt title....!! Perhaps they set the whole thing up knowing full well that should this record fail the egg would be on New Order's faces....thus rendering the sentiment of that eponymously (and now ironically) titled record completely meaningless.....

They're obviously pleased that HTS didn't go top ten. Aren't they? So they have succeeded haven't they? Now they HAVE the excuse they could possibly hope for to let New Order free from their contract....

What's the next thing that's going to happen? That's it, you guessed - the nail in the coffin that is the NEXT planned "Best Of" compilation - as already revealed by Nic WebM elsewhere. I mean....doesn't that consummate their pointless existence on this most clueless of major labels? The next "Best Of" is just what we need to confirm our worst fears about the relationship London have with New Order - they couldn't give a stuff about their post 90's output - it's their 80s back catalogue that's most lucrative ain't it? So how many more updated versions of "Blue Fucking Monday" and "True Faith" are we going to be able to stomach?

:(

Wow and i thought i was a raging cynic!! i bow before master of cynicsm!!! ;)

anyway they've been shafted throught their illustrious career, first by factory and now it seems by London Records... ah well shit happens! at least they managed to knock out a load of quality albums down the years!! be thankful for the small mercys!! hehe :)

Originally posted by Oh Look! There Goes The Laughing Martian Again!! I didn't know Peter Hook played on a Roxy Music album Kimberly! ;) ;) :D

Ah, shit. I was all excited there for a minute...after all, bass was the revolving-door position in that band.

[off topic]Of course, For Your Pleasure is the best Roxy Music record.[/off topic]

Originally posted by Oh Look! There Goes The Laughing Martian Again!! > Originally posted by -I:D-> > Anything to do with the catastrophic collapse of HTS after one week in the charts? > Highly embarrasing for London Recs, a song that debuts at number 15 to drop out of the top 40 in one week i'd say..> > or is just a jolly old jape to spark a little controversy?? ;)

Well, put it this way -I.D- London Records were probably far from embarrassed - rather overjoyed, as their wish finally came true. Picture the scene: the marketing folks placing bets on how far HTS would drop after its first week. "If it's out of the top 40 in one week, let's press the eject button. If it miraculously somehow - against all the odds - survives a second week inside it, just get the concepts ready for the next New Order "Best of" compilation as a contract filler then we'll press the eject button...."

London Records are probably creaming themselves at the delicious irony of it all: "Here To Stay" - well, judging from the fleeting chart performance, "Dream On" would have been a more apt title....!! Perhaps they set the whole thing up knowing full well that should this record fail the egg would be on New Order's faces....thus rendering the sentiment of that eponymously (and now ironically) titled record completely meaningless.....

They're obviously pleased that HTS didn't go top ten. Aren't they? So they have succeeded haven't they? Now they HAVE the excuse they could possibly hope for to let New Order free from their contract....

What's the next thing that's going to happen? That's it, you guessed - the nail in the coffin that is the NEXT planned "Best Of" compilation - as already revealed by Nic WebM elsewhere. I mean....doesn't that consummate their pointless existence on this most clueless of major labels? The next "Best Of" is just what we need to confirm our worst fears about the relationship London have with New Order - they couldn't give a stuff about their post 90's output - it's their 80s back catalogue that's most lucrative ain't it? So how many more updated versions of "Blue Fucking Monday" and "True Faith" are we going to be able to stomach?

:(

that's a forgone conclusion, i would agree. :( and i can say from personal experience that it is no fun at all watching the music biz up close and personal...particularly when you get to watch various factions screw over things and/or people and/or music and/or bands that you care about. it is ALWAYS ugly, and ALWAYS petty, and ALWAYS ultimately much more childish and ridiculous than most children you probably know.

...the REAL question here, i think, is...in the event of that scenario, do you think they'll recover? do you think they've got enough fire left in them to get back up and continue on doing music somehow else?

as Gnu pointed out on another thread, Curve offers a very good example. i don't know how viable a living they're making off of doing web-only stuff, but at least they're trying...they're still putting out good music and not capitulating to the whims of anyone but themselves, which is how it ideally WOULD BE.

but do you think at this point in time that the Order have still got it in them? if so, this might actually be a *good* turning point for them. but do you think they'll continue to make music in some way, or do you think they'll just pack it in and call it a day? :(

Originally posted by janaki ...the REAL question here, i think, is...do you think they've got enough fire left in them to get back up and continue on doing music somehow else?

No.

Solo projects, maybe. (By the way, Electronic's another example of switching labels. Their distribution sucks, but Koch did an old solider right by releasing the Limited Edition of Twisted Tenderness...they knew suckers like me would buy anything with Johnny Marr on it.) But as a group? No.

Anyone else cranky about the music biz (Martin) should lock himself in a room and head straight to negativland.com, in particular http://www.negativland.com/albini.html. Mr. Albini has nailed it. Tony Wilson's a friggin' charity, man.

Also good is http://www.negativland.com/minidis.html, though I don't buy all of it.

To be truthfully honest with everyone and everything. I wish New Order never bothered coming back with any new records.

When they split after "Republic" I was prepared to let that be it - and as for their various solo projects, whatever they were, however successful or unsuccessful they were (in the case of Monaco's first album, quite unexpected success - perhaps people DID miss New Order then - but that was 1997 after all - to quote the title of an old album track "Times Change") I was at least content in the knowledge that it wasn't New Order as a whole making duff records (Raise The Pressure/Twisted Tenderness/Monaco). So quite why they had to get back together again and become an embarrassment (come on, admit it, do they look like the surly young existential striplings they once were?) not to mention look as out of place as grand-dads at a fooking kindergarten rave every time they appear on TOTP...really beggars belief.

By the way....Me and Timbo (Bagpuss) are unanimously in agreement on this point, allegedly... :D

New Order should have shut up shop long ago. They should have left on a commercial high (Republic era) and left us wanting more.....

You want an example of a once huge "alternative" band still trundling on to ever-diminishing returns?

Step right up this way The Cure.

I'd agree completely except that I really like Get Ready. A lot. I like the world better with Get Ready in it. That record makes me happy.

I'd feel better had Republic never been made and Regret was just a single out of left field.

Now stop posting and go read that Steve Albini article.

I also agree to an extent..

however they evidently still have got some great music left in them as is clearly demonstrated by Grrrready do you not agree?

Originally posted by Gnu Odor I'd agree completely except that I really like Get Ready. A lot. I like the world better with Get Ready in it. That record makes me happy.I'd feel better had Republic never been made and Regret was just a single out of left field.Now stop posting and go read that Steve Albini article.

yep, i'm with Gnu on this one. i do like Gerrrready quite a lot, i'm afraid. but i also do think that the Order, much like everyone else also *should*...should indeed know when to quit. too many people don't. including and especially the Cure. (who REALLY should've shut up shop after Disintegration, save for a few singles past it...but i won't delve into that argument here. ;) )

and yeah, i'm betting this'll kill them off as a whole band, too. Gillian's already gone. one down, three to go...

(but if Twisted Tenderness was anything to go buy, another Electronic album wouldn't be so bad... ;) )

Yes they do still have some good ideas for songs, as evidenced by half of Get Ready. The fact they had to do Slow Jam puts it all in perspective though, there wasn't enough in the tank (or they took bad advice) - especially when you consider they left Sabotage and Player in the League off, after initially listing them as tracks on the album (cf Dotmusic.com). I'm only looking forward to the live shows because I enjoy gigs and like their music. It's not often you get a chance to relive memories.

Well if they hadn't come back I wouldn't have wasted hour upon hour on this bloody thing anyway. I think they've actually got the right idea behind their videos - keep making the music but hiding themselves behind other actors etc. Seeing the state of Hooky last Friday this is surely the way to go.

They had to come back ... Republic could not be allowed to stand as New Order's last record. The forces of the universe could not allow that to happen.

Me in the record store through the ages:

Technique: "Are those guys still around? Cool cover. Hey, this is better than Brotherhood...way better..."

Republic: "Are those guys still around? Oh Jesus...they got back together for this? File under Washed Up Nostalgia Acts. Can I trade this in?"

Get Ready: "Are those guys still around? I kind of like that Crystal video...it's got that sound only those four (what, three?) can make together. I wish I hadn't traded in Republic."

again, Gnu...words of wisdom.

if they're indeed going to go out, it's much better that they go out with Gerrready than the steaming pile of disemboweled crayfish and alpaca that was most of Republic.

:(

Originally posted by Gnu Odor I'd agree completely except that I really like Get Ready. A lot. I like the world better with Get Ready in it. That record makes me happy.I'd feel better had Republic never been made and Regret was just a single out of left field.Now stop posting and go read that Steve Albini article.

Read them both matey - excellent analyses too!

I'm glad I'm not alone in being so cynical and untrustworthy then! But this kind of thing is very commonplace anyway - it's just - like the second article says - not much of it ever gets above the parapet so to speak - for fear of treading on people's toes. Why else is vinyl now so extortionately priced in our record shops nowadays? (on average two pounds more than the £14-15.00 CD equivalent in the main) Not so much that it's scarcer and more expensive to manufacture than CD (true now), but I suspect it's specially engineered/marked up on the part of the retailer to make its cost appear more in line relatively speaking with the CD format. Thus people are "fooled" into thinking that BOTH vinyl and CD have gone up in line with inflation (which is bollocks, cuz if THAT WAS INDEED THE CASE, an album would cost even more anyway - around £20.00 now - and a single £7.50.), so that renders that argument inconclusive. No. The real reason is much, much more obvious: sheer corporate greed.

the second article also mentions the alleged superiority of DVD...and when compared to commercially-available videocassettes, this is indeed true. 'cept for that niggling inability to record (well, at reasonable prices...at least, at this point in time). at the beginning, of course, most DVDs looked like absolute shite...like third-generation copies of VHS tapes done originally in EP mode.

but if it were REALLY about quality, we would've been on Laserdiscs all along. or at least BetaMax...which was a better tape format anyway. it never is about whatever it's said to be about, is my point.

i don't fully agree with everything stated in those articles, but they're both very good reads. and while i didn't have figures, the Albini article is something i'd known for years. doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

i love music...always have, and always will. and always will *try* to retain some sort of optimism about it and things to do with it...but it's so HARD when you hate nearly everything else that goes along with it. all the bullshit everyone involved has to wade through. we as consumers have it relatively easy...unless we bother to think about it. and then it all goes to shit.

Originally posted by janaki but if it were REALLY about quality, we would've been on Laserdiscs all along. or at least BetaMax...which was a better tape format anyway.

And we'd all be using Macintosh laptops rather than Windows.

Uh oh.

:topic:

And as far as all turning to shit, there is an upside, so to speak. Thanks to the non-porn capabilities of the Internet, it's possible to stick with a band after the "next big thing" record company investment frenzy has passed. With all that nasty airplay and video shoots and global tours out of the way, it's nice to get on a mailing list and get back to music (see Curve, Lunatic Calm, Todd Rundgren, Goldblade, etc.).

Originally posted by Gnu Odor > ....it's nice to get on a mailing list and get back to music (see Curve, Lunatic Calm, Todd Rundgren, Goldblade, etc.).

Is that some deliberate or subliminal tip of the hat to my own punk rock band there Gnu, or what??? ;)

Just to confirm Martians post about New Order being dropped by London Records, it is indeed most true, i was down the pub with my mate who works in the music bizz and he said its listed in this weeks "Music Week" industry rag, i'll see if he can dig up any more details from "inside" the scene.

What, after just having a top 15 hit? Doubt it.

I say - LET THEM GO!!

New Order are better off going Indie again - whatever the fook that means.

To quote Barney's Lyric on "Let's Go"

"You did nothing for me! You did nothing for me! You did nothing for me! You did nothing for me!!"

They're better off out of it. Fucking useless twats....

Here's to the future then!

Originally posted by Gnu Odor > Originally posted by janaki> but if it were REALLY about quality, we would've been on Laserdiscs all along. or at least BetaMax...which was a better tape format anyway.

And we'd all be using Macintosh laptops rather than Windows.

Uh oh.

:topic:

And as far as all turning to shit, there is an upside, so to speak. Thanks to the non-porn capabilities of the Internet, it's possible to stick with a band after the "next big thing" record company investment frenzy has passed. With all that nasty airplay and video shoots and global tours out of the way, it's nice to get on a mailing list and get back to music (see Curve, Lunatic Calm, Todd Rundgren, Goldblade, etc.).

very true. let's just see what happens with that angle.

and as for my laptop, 'twas necessity at the time. school i was going to (and will be attending again in the fall) probably wouldn't know a Mac if it kicked them in the shins.

my co-conspirator is eyeing a dual gig G4 though...he's video boy and all. wants to get back into putting videos together. :D

dunno if that'll happen, but.

i guess, much as it pains me...yeah, the band ARE better off without the losers at London. and again, if Gerrready was the last thing they did, it's a whole lot better than having left it with Republic...

A better name would have been "The Other Two and Ewe"

I'm holding out for their record with Barbra Streisand on vocals, "The Other Two & a Jew."

Haven't heard "Superhighways." We won't get fooled again.