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Dreams Never End. Chosen Time. Doubts Even Here. All brilliant.
The rest? Depends what mood I'm in. The atmosphere of the album means I have to be in a certain mood to listen to it cohesively, it's not like Technique or whatever which I can put on and enjoy whenever.
I think the songs are pretty meandering and dark because of the state the band were in at the time and Hannett's production, which is a bit suffocating at times (but brilliant with Dreams Never End and Doubts Even Here).
thinking back to movement ,i guess your opinion is formed by the order you heard it in .
prior to buying it on release ihad the peel sessions on boot,, other concerts on boot with most of the songs on and seen em live ,,, ceremony had come out and that along with i.a.l.p sounded fine ,the expectation was fairly high,,, as coming after u.p and closer. so the muffled sound was a dissapointment ,,there are some great songs screaming to get out,, some different ideas on direction..its there most emotional album for me so always gets my no1 vote,, though wouldt have at the time. barney finding his way a alyricist, struglled by falling into the trap of writing "serious" lyrics as n.m.e stated in there review,,"and some poor sod will get movement for christmas",,er god like geniuses?
they were also finishing of overdubs and stuff for still at the same time which may have been a tadge confusing its not what i need.
Razed In A New Division Of Agony wrote: not sure why everyone always jumps to Dreams Never End if Movement is brought up. Probably because it's on the American (the best of) New Order CD.
Probably not, actually. It's got the most catchy and uplifting riff of all the songs on the album, it's probably the one they played live the most (and thus we all got to hear it more than the others) and it has the bonus of being sung by Hooky.
Doubts Even Here, by comparison, is a horrible dirge, that would probably have been the sort of thing JD would have churned out had Ian survived. No wonder they binned it so soon!
79 order wrote: thinking back to movement ,i guess your opinion is formed by the order you heard it in .
prior to buying it on release ihad the peel sessions on boot,, other concerts on boot with most of the songs on and seen em live ,,, ceremony had come out and that along with i.a.l.p sounded fine ,the expectation was fairly high,,, as coming after u.p and closer. so the muffled sound was a dissapointment ,,there are some great songs screaming to get out,, some different ideas on direction..its there most emotional album for me so always gets my no1 vote,, though wouldt have at the time. barney finding his way a alyricist, struglled by falling into the trap of writing "serious" lyrics as n.m.e stated in there review,,"and some poor sod will get movement for christmas",,er god like geniuses?
they were also finishing of overdubs and stuff for still at the same time which may have been a tadge confusing its not what i need.
Good point. We'd heard Ceremony and IALP, had some experience of the new songs in a live setting, had heard the Peel session version of some of the same songs, and were expecting more from the album. Pretty much the same was true of Brotherhood five years later, I was and still am really disappointed by the way they made those songs sound on record. Since then of course, they've pretty much recorded the songs before we get to hear them live, bar a couple on Technique, so this evolution period didn't happen in public.
oldmonkey wrote:
Razed In A New Division Of Agony wrote: not sure why everyone always jumps to Dreams Never End if Movement is brought up. Probably because it's on the American (the best of) New Order CD.
Probably not, actually. It's got the most catchy and uplifting riff of all the songs on the album, it's probably the one they played live the most (and thus we all got to hear it more than the others) and it has the bonus of being sung by Hooky.
Doubts Even Here, by comparison, is a horrible dirge, that would probably have been the sort of thing JD would have churned out had Ian survived. No wonder they binned it so soon!
I see what you're saying, DNE is alot more New Order than DEH. But what it lacks in comparison, to me anyways, is emotion. Not just vocal emotion, but the tone the entire song sets. I just can't really take DNE seriously, despite it's rather catchy guitar riff.
At first I didn't think much of Movement at all compared to their other stuff. Slowly but surely though after giving it many tries it did grow on me and there are now a few songs I like from the album.
Still, I would take any other NO album over it, but it's alright for what it is.
79 order wrote: thinking back to movement ,i guess your opinion is formed by the order you heard it in .
prior to buying it on release ihad the peel sessions on boot,, other concerts on boot with most of the songs on and seen em live ,,, ceremony had come out and that along with i.a.l.p sounded fine ,the expectation was fairly high,,, as coming after u.p and closer. so the muffled sound was a dissapointment ,,there are some great songs screaming to get out,, some different ideas on direction..its there most emotional album for me so always gets my no1 vote,, though wouldt have at the time. barney finding his way a alyricist, struglled by falling into the trap of writing "serious" lyrics as n.m.e stated in there review,,"and some poor sod will get movement for christmas",,er god like geniuses?
they were also finishing of overdubs and stuff for still at the same time which may have been a tadge confusing its not what i need.
Well it was music in general back then that was in a poor state of health - 1981 was the year of Stars on 45 if you remember! Back then you weren't sure if New Order were going to make it and when Movement came out you had two thirds of their catalogue there in your hands - it was an important piece of plastic. Not too much in the way of sleeve notes to distract you either! Procession/EGG had come out a few weeks earlier and Movement seemed like half a step backwards from there at first.
A lot's been said on here in the past for and against the production (where's Melly? 
) - I always thought it sucked, but there's some real power and variety in the songs that was satisfying in a way. When Temptation started developing and getting some showtime in September and October, the future looked a whole lot brighter though.
Movement songs, with or without Martin Hannett, are obviously great NO songs. They could be sound dated, but they really don't, even today. It's still good and interesting to hear them. So if the band was uncertain in early 1981 months,it gave a real and new caracter to their music.They were in a"no return"position and Movement is the first step. I like this album 4ever and more.
JEAN NOEL BOUET wrote: Movement songs, with or without Martin Hannett, are obviously great NO songs. They could be sound dated, but they really don't, even today. It's still good and interesting to hear them. So if the band was uncertain in early 1981 months,it gave a real and new caracter to their music.They were in a"no return"position and Movement is the first step. I like this album 4ever and more.
Monsieur Bouet, if I may add to your two cents--
For a band's shadow to step out of is but a deeply strong step. For New Order to try to emerge out of Joy Division must've meant a whole lotta guts to pull it off. Luckily, I think, they pulled it off, and with class.
I'll have to post a review I did for this album, but not right now. I just arrived in Tampa from a wacky road trip which was soundtracked with 80's New Order. :D
When thinking about Movement, I try to remember what was around at the time of its release. It was very different to anything around at the time. Remember, this album is over a quarter of a century old. I think its stood the test of time. I doubt there were many 42 year olds around in 1981 who were listening to stuff they first heard in 1955. Apart from sad old teddy boys. Jeez, is that what I`ve become?
Peter Winfield wrote: Remember, this album is over a quarter of a century old.
And that is a quite frightening thought. I can remember where I was when I first bought it, time has flown by really. Where has it all gone?
oldmonkey wrote:
Peter Winfield wrote: Remember, this album is over a quarter of a century old.
And that is a quite frightening thought. I can remember where I was when I first bought it, time has flown by really. Where has it all gone?
The good Lord only knows, Tim. 
P.S. I really should post that blasted review soon, shouldn't I?
Great album, great music to listen to in a darken room. However, I think Bernard's vocals were real weak on this (but not nearly half as bad as on PCL).
But overall, I think this album is great simply because it is the ONLY album they made that sounded like this. If they didn't follow up with PCL, and something more Joy-Divisionish, than I think this album probably would be considered shite.
EdelBrock wrote: Great album, great music to listen to in a darken room. However, I think Bernard's vocals were real weak on this (but not nearly half as bad as on PCL).
But overall, I think this album is great simply because it is the ONLY album they made that sounded like this. If they didn't follow up with PCL, and something more Joy-Divisionish, than I think this album probably would be considered shite.
I thought PCL had good vocals (except We All Stand). By comparison Low-Lifes are rubbish, and Brotherhood come to mention it!
Been listening to Movement a lot recently. How crap are the lyrics? Bernard's attempt at being dark and mysterious, shoddy sixth-form poetry. Nicky Wire would have been delighted to write words as well as Bernard, but it just goes to show what a lyricist Ian Curtis was. Thankfully the shroud was lifted from Bernard after this and he matured into the inane rhymer we all know and sometimes love.
oldmonkey wrote: To me, Movement sounds claustrophobic and unsure, and they weren't unsure at this stage in their development, they were starting to blossom.
That is the reason why I like this album...
old monkey wrote"how crap are the l yrics"
well bernard addmitted at the time it was a struglle to follow ian,s work as a lyricist and he did probably follow this path as he knew no other .
still like them for what they are ,, not bothered about any historical perspective.
once he dropped the albrecht moniker he lighted up a bit lyrically ..
doubts even here.
Jiphy wrote:
oldmonkey wrote: To me, Movement sounds claustrophobic and unsure, and they weren't unsure at this stage in their development, they were starting to blossom.
That is the reason why I like this album...
what because youre unsure?
NO Regret wrote: what because youre unsure?
No. Because it sounds fragile.
And to answer your question, I am sure of what I dislike about New Order. And these things do not concern movement in any ways.
oldmonkey wrote: Been listening to Movement a lot recently. How crap are the lyrics? Bernard's attempt at being dark and mysterious, shoddy sixth-form poetry. Nicky Wire would have been delighted to write words as well as Bernard, but it just goes to show what a lyricist Ian Curtis was. Thankfully the shroud was lifted from Bernard after this and he matured into the inane rhymer we all know and sometimes love.
Hello everyone, it's been a while. I have probably expressed my love for Movement enough times on here already, but at the risk of being boring I'll just say.....GREAT lyrics, BEST production ever (use your ears folks, can't you hear what Hannett's doing?), in fact my favourite NO record by some distance.
It depends what you want from music, but I find the experimental, slightly fragmented and hesitant quality far more interesting than most of their work. I do think that Hannett is sometimes overrated as a producer and some of his trademark sounds don't always work in some contexts (Only Ones, Buzzcocks, Stone Roses), but he's absolutely on fire on Movement. I wish they'd worked with him a little more and followed up some of the many ideas that are introduced here.
I wrote this : http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=40848
that probably sums it up. I've posted the link before, so apologies for repetition, but some folks may not have read it.
d.c wrote.hello everyone
m8,, movement is my fave ,,close 1st with low life ,,though if hannetts on fire he pissed over the production to put it out.
the lyrics have been discussed many times ,,there are some great oneliners from the soul.. however barney distanced himself from them quite quickly
hannet was moving on with order though their escape from his control did allow them to blossom . as with anything order it means a lot to listen to it .still.
this distance ,its not what i mean.
DC wrote: It depends what you want from music, but I find the experimental, slightly fragmented and hesitant quality far more interesting than most of their work. I do think that Hannett is sometimes overrated as a producer and some of his trademark sounds don't always work in some contexts (Only Ones, Buzzcocks, Stone Roses), but he's absolutely on fire on Movement. I wish they'd worked with him a little more and followed up some of the many ideas that are introduced here. I wrote this : http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=40848
DC's Take.Excellent. Funny I don't tend to associate JD w/ NO very much. Obviously as Linked as they are. It's all very much Different in Direction and Tone. Esp. as their (NO's) sound and skills changed and Developed. Movement was still getting written as they played shows right. So the Result. The Studio album is held seperate again. Hannett's Baby Reconstruction or Disaster, Destruction whichever Taste is held.
I think Movement is a very fine album, on an even plane with PCL, Low-life and Brotherhood, which to me are a quartet of unmitigated brilliance. (Technique is good but not quite up to this level, and after that it's a slide off a cliff, alas.
With that said, New Order hadn't found their sound (and Bernard his voice) so it doesn't feel like a representative album to me -- if I could keep only one NO album, I can't imagine it being Movement, even if I think it's as good as the others. On its own, the music is brilliant (and I have no problem with the lyrics either), but it doesn't really and truly feel like New Order to me in the way that the subsequent records do (or even Everything's Gone Green does).
The production is indeed murky (for some reason, highs are very muted as compared with the singles Hannett produced but the arrangements are thick and rich and reward close listening. Chosen Time, ICB and Denial are all great. However, it's not a very...inviting record, and I do think I began to enjoy it more after hearing more energetic live versions on the Taras Schevchenko video.
