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He proved to us during the JD days, and even on Get Ready and to a lesser extent Brotherhood that he has solid guitar chops, but why does it seem like he's often underusing them? Listening to the full length Perfect Kiss, I love it but he could have played a little more there, instead of doing some minor strumming. He just seems lazy with the guitar a lot of the time. I wonder how much on Waiting for the Sirens Call was Phil, and how much was Barney.
J
No Holiday wrote: He proved to us during the JD days, and even on Get Ready and to a lesser extent Brotherhood that he has solid guitar chops, but why does it seem like he's often underusing them? Listening to the full length Perfect Kiss, I love it but he could have played a little more there, instead of doing some minor strumming. He just seems lazy with the guitar a lot of the time. I wonder how much on Waiting for the Sirens Call was Phil, and how much was Barney.
J
TPK is a lousy example to be honest - where would you fit the reams of guitar you seem to want in that track? It's loaded with sequencers, drum machines, bass, keyboard, croaking frogs - excessive guitar would be out of place.
In general, and on TPK as well, Bernard's playing is really tasteful and not over the top, which suits New order's music, IMO. On Brotherhood they went a bit "over-dub happy" I think Bernard himself called it, and so it was like a mess of guitars.
But yes I think he's a great guitarist and Johnny Marr and Stephen Hague have commented on how good he is without overplaying.
Well his (sober) timing is exceptional, which puts him ahead of most guitarist )who could not keep time if a 22lb sledge hammer sconned them one on each beat).
As I started the "How good is Steve" thread I'd better add to this one hadn't I?
I think his best work is the JD stuff. If you take just the two albums and the two singles there is an evolution in styles and sounds which is pretty impressive in such a short time span.
Transmission, New Dawn Fades, Shadowplay - simple, powerful riffs, great chord progressions that really drive the songs but also delicate picking - see mid-song NDF which is beautiful.
On Closer these elements are still there but for a large part of the album he is experimenting with feedback ridden, choppy fills and repetitions that create that - dare I say it - a wall of sound on stuff like Atrocity Exhibition.
I guess with NO they wanted a new sound. Keyboards and Sequencers taking over and he did say he couldn't sing and play at the same time - so the guitar took a backseat for a few years. That said, Hooky did step forward and start providing the melodies so it worked out nicely.
He probably is much better that he makes out but his interest appears to be in creating music rather than being a Guitarist.
Simon Simpson wrote:
He probably is much better that he makes out but his interest appears to be in creating music rather than being a Guitarist.
Well put, I think that applies to both Barney and Hooky.
I thought it was just because he can't play and sing at the same time on most songs...I think if Hooky were the main singer, we would have seen a much more guitar driven band instead of the New Order we al love...also the singing would be gringe worthy 
At the end of the day, they're punks, they've learnt on the job, and that's how they created the music that they have, and that's why we love them!!
He's got an ear for a guitar part, that's for sure, and as Cambo says his timing is really good. Yes I would have to agree with No Hols (unbelievable but true :)) that yes Barney is better than he makes himself out to be. Mind you, he probably thinks he's the best!
Does he really know how to play guitar, or does he just fake it and has learned to make burst of cool noise. The anti-rock non-professionalism is what made Joy Division and 80s New Order cool.
No Holiday wrote: He proved to us during the JD days, and even on Get Ready and to a lesser extent Brotherhood that he has solid guitar chops, but why does it seem like he's often underusing them? Listening to the full length Perfect Kiss, I love it but he could have played a little more there, instead of doing some minor strumming. He just seems lazy with the guitar a lot of the time. I wonder how much on Waiting for the Sirens Call was Phil, and how much was Barney.
J
Damn straight. all i can say is "interzone".
Sumner is a great guitarist! He knows the art of underplaying which, in my experience of being in bands, is crucial to the drummer not putting his sticks through the guitarists eyes... He knows his chops and, on his day, I reckon his timing is spot on. We used to cover age of consent and our (very good) guitarist said that the choppy bit on the playout used to really test him.
He's a better guitarist - both technically and in terms of creativity - than he gives himself credit for. Asked to list his top ten guitarists, Johnny Marr put Barn in about six or seven, citing his work on Unknown Pleasures in particular. This coming from JOHNNY MARR!
He's capable of both huge power and subtlety: contrast Day Of The Lords or Novelty with Autosuggestion or Passover. The interesting thing about a lot of the earlier NO stuff is that, because he found it hard to sing and play at the same time, Hooky and Gillian were obliged to carry the melody etc between them until Barn opened up again. He 'sung between the guitar parts' which is quite unusual!
Was Gillian a talented player? I think they developed their talent over a long time and a good deal of their stuff has a naive talent to it which is brilliant. They're modest too which ensured that the usual "I'm a guitar hero" arrogant bollocks never came through.
Chemical wrote: He's a better guitarist - both technically and in terms of creativity - than he gives himself credit for. Asked to list his top ten guitarists, Johnny Marr put Barn in about six or seven, citing his work on Unknown Pleasures in particular. This coming from JOHNNY MARR!
He's capable of both huge power and subtlety: contrast Day Of The Lords or Novelty with Autosuggestion or Passover. The interesting thing about a lot of the earlier NO stuff is that, because he found it hard to sing and play at the same time, Hooky and Gillian were obliged to carry the melody etc between them until Barn opened up again. He 'sung between the guitar parts' which is quite unusual!
Was Gillian a talented player? I think they developed their talent over a long time and a good deal of their stuff has a naive talent to it which is brilliant. They're modest too which ensured that the usual "I'm a guitar hero" arrogant bollocks never came through.
That is exactly the kind of expressive height I couldn't quite achieve on a moody Monday morn. Agree wholeheartedly. I really like bands who can't play properly when they start out and find their own style as they go along. I think that this is where you find true creativitiy as musicians will think of new ways to overcome their technical limitations... I was reading "An Ideal for Living" at the weekend and there's a great early pic of Peter Hook at a gig with the notes chalked on his fretboard... Oh and a dodgy cap too 
Barny is one of my favorite frontmen of all time. He's a great guiaterist and although many would consider his singing on some songs cringe-worthy, I actually like the unique way in which he approaches singing his songs. There is something in his voice that is very clear and anticeptic. Regarding the guitars, I just got one thing to say:
LOVE VIGILANTES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by the way...is it true Barney Learned a lot of his guitar playing skills from Lenny Kravitz?
Isamu wrote:
by the way...is it true Barney Learned a lot of his guitar playing skills from Lenny Kravitz?
Que?
JV wrote:
Isamu wrote:
by the way...is it true Barney Learned a lot of his guitar playing skills from Lenny Kravitz?
Que?
Well considering Barney started playing in the late 70s and Kravitz didn't release an album until '89, I'd say ...ummm....NO.
EdelBrock wrote:
JV wrote:
Isamu wrote:
by the way...is it true Barney Learned a lot of his guitar playing skills from Lenny Kravitz?
Que?
Well considering Barney started playing in the late 70s and Kravitz didn't release an album until '89, I'd say ...ummm....NO.
That's why I answered the way I did.
